Info I want this Icy Dock ToughArmor PCIe Hot Swapper

Nov 20, 2009
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It is the ToughArmor MB840M2P-B from Icy Dock but I do not think it has been released yet because I cannot find anyone selling it. I play with operating systems all of the time, including making perfect clones of main OS I run. So, the desired need for two of these would be great, provided they actually work. Anyone else interested? They use four lanes on a PCIe 3.0 and I believe I actually have that available. I know they make single and quad cartridge front chassis solutions but I am not sure of the backplane interface.

IcyDockToughArmorPCIeHotSwap1.png
 

Steltek

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Yeah, I thought it was very neat as well. The product announcement was made back in very late April, but to date I haven't found anyone with one in stock yet either.

These would be great for backups, and just by coincidence I happen to have two unused x8 slots on my X399 Taichi board. I'd also like to have a couple extra of the NVMe drive cases in order to be able to swap OSes easily without opening my case to physically remove the NVMe drives (a pain for me as I presently have to remove my video card to get to them - one NVMe slot is directly below the video card, the other is right next to it and I can't move the video card due to CPU cooler issues).
 
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aigomorla

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I really do not see the point in this.
Why would you do that route, when you can go SAS enclosure with U.2 nVME drives?
Also M.2 does not support hotswap... U.2 Does.
So again, what is the point in a M.2 hotswap like you posted above? Its utterly pointless over a U.2 hotswap bay which are 2.5" SAS bays basically.

It would make too much work to hotswap a M.2 when if you had that purpose you would obviously go the enterprise route with U.2
 
Nov 20, 2009
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You know, Icy Dock's webpage says u.2/M.2 but no where did it say HOT swap. I read a couple of review pages that said it was HOT swap. If it is not then forget it. They already, as I mentioned, have U.2 hot swap solutions for the front panel. Wiring to the mobo is where it becomes questionable.
 

Steltek

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You know, Icy Dock's webpage says u.2/M.2 but no where did it say HOT swap. I read a couple of review pages that said it was HOT swap. If it is not then forget it. They already, as I mentioned, have U.2 hot swap solutions for the front panel. Wiring to the mobo is where it becomes questionable.

The FAQ on the support page seems to indicate that it is hot swap capable, though I have my doubts (as aigomorla points out, m.2 isn't meant to be hot-swappable, so who knows what the life expectancy of your drives - or even your system - might end up as). Might be worth contacting their support department to be sure.


I really do not see the point in this.
Why would you do that route, when you can go SAS enclosure with U.2 nVME drives?
Also M.2 does not support hotswap... U.2 Does.
So again, what is the point in a M.2 hotswap like you posted above? Its utterly pointless over a U.2 hotswap bay which are 2.5" SAS bays basically.

It would make too much work to hotswap a M.2 when if you had that purpose you would obviously go the enterprise route with U.2

For me, it is a reality of money issue - want vs have. I don't presently have any U.2 drives, but I do already have several NVMe drives that are on the compatibility list for this device. Depending upon the pricing, I could maybe justify squeezing this adapter purchase into my post-retirement budget (though the cost of additional trays, if they are available, could be an issue until they are available at discount on eBay). My needs now are modest, and this could be made to work for me. As before stated, it would be really nice to be able to swap my OS drive without having to partially disassemble my system. I don't need hot-swap capability for that.

Were I still working, it wouldn't even be an issue - I'd have ordered a good SAS enclosure and new U.2 drives without a second thought, and further wouldn't have even given this adapter a second glance.

However, sadly enough, retirement (together with an insane president, an even more insane pandemic stock market and unexpectedly having to spend the last year making my unemployed sister's house payment - with no end in sight) changes your perspective on what you want vs what you can afford to have.
 

Steltek

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Mar 29, 2001
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You know, Icy Dock's webpage says u.2/M.2 but no where did it say HOT swap. I read a couple of review pages that said it was HOT swap. If it is not then forget it. They already, as I mentioned, have U.2 hot swap solutions for the front panel. Wiring to the mobo is where it becomes questionable.

According to their tech support department, the adapter does in fact have hot plug support for both converted U.2 and NVMe M.2 drives. Not quite hot-swap, but close enough for my needs.
 
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Steltek

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FYI, I got an email from IcyDock stating this product is expected to be available at Newegg and Amazon the first week of August. They didn't mention price, or availability on spare drive cases (only that spare cases will be released for sale "later").

They are already selling the versions that fit a 3.5 and 5.25 external drive bay, but those versions require a compatible HBA or RAID card. I guess we'll have to see the price of the PCIe version vs the drive bay +HBA/RAID version.
 

KentState

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That looks awesome. Would love to get a few of those to swap NVMe drives between servers and desktops. Tried various NVMe enclosures and they are just too flaky while PCIE cards have been great, but opening up a server to remove it is a pain.
 

Steltek

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Well, I found a few in-stock at Provantage and ordered two of them. They were priced at $70.62 each plus tax/shipping (Provantage never has free shipping). BTW, FWIW Ingram Micro shows the MSRP at $83.20 for resellers.

The other three places I found that claim stock (CompSource, Neobits, and Beach Audio) had prices ranging from $80.04 to $82.95 each.
 
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Nov 20, 2009
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Please let us know how well it works. I am still curious about the ability in any NVME solution to be able to selectively switch off in BIOS/UEFI one NMVE over another.
 

Steltek

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I will let you know once I have them for testing. Looks like they were slow shipping out, so I'm not scheduled to receive delivery until August 10th. I've already got a pair of dissimilar 1TB NVMe drives to test with (a WD Black/SN700, and a Samsung 960 Evo). Already have Windows 10 installed on the SN700, and plan to install Linux Mint on the 960 Evo.

BTW, the part number for the spare drive trays is supposed to be MB840TP-B. It is on their website, but is VERY hard to find (I only found it shown via an advertisement page related to the PCIe rack that I came across by accident). It isn't listed for sale anywhere yet.
 
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Steltek

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Well, I've finally got both of them. It took a while because one of them was defective, and it took 11 days round trip to go through the Icy Dock RMA process. The problem I had with the defective rack was that it wouldn't easily seat a tray with a drive installed, and further that the tray that came with it wouldn't work with the other rack. The person I dealt with at Icy Dock (who was in their sales and marketing department due to a prior contact with him) indicated that the problem I had wasn't one they had previously seen with any of their beta testers, so I'm going to chalk it up to a one-off early production run thing for now.

Physically, the PCB and rack structure itself is very well constructed - when properly installed, it should not move or flex at all when installing or removing drive trays. Performance doesn't appear to be any worse than any other of the several x4 PCIe 3.0 NVMe adapters I've used. I was able to create NVMe boot drive trays for both Windows 10 and Linux Mint 20.0 Mate. Once I had the separate boot trays prepared, I could shut down, pop out a boot drive, pop in the other one, restart, and be up and running the other OS in less than 1 minute on both a clean Windows 10 Pro and clean Linux Mint install. I was able to image a clean Win10 Pro install (with only Nvidia and AMD drivers installed) from my 1TB WD SN700 NVMe over to a 512GB Samsung 970 Pro Nvme drive rack to rack in 2 minutes, 20 seconds using Macrium Free on drives at ambient temps.

I do have to say that I don't particularly care for the drive tray design at all - they should have spent a few more dollars to make them more mechanically robust. The thermal pad inside the tray is actually a necessary part of the drive mounting and retention clip mechanism, so if you change the drives in a tray a lot and wear it out you'd have to replace it (though you can easily remove it, flip it over, and reinstall it to increase its life). Further, the thermal pad is also thinner than most generic pads I've seen so I don't know if you could easily get a 3rd party replacement that would work with it (you'd have to have one of the exact thickness or it'll affect the ability of the tray to properly seat a drive in a rack). Icy Dock did indicate they have "considered" selling replacement pads in the near future so we'll see. I also noted that the drive trays seem to need to be "broken in" by installing and removing a tray with a drive installed several times in order for the tray to properly seat in the rack. However, once it began seating properly, the trays could be exchanged between the two racks I have. We'll see if that continues once Icy Dock starts selling the spare drive trays separately (which, for me, is the whole point of this exercise).

My test system is a first gen Threadripper 1950x mounted on an Asrock x399 Taichi motherboard. When both racks are installed, they both show up in the BIOS boot order (where they can be easily enabled/disabled) and also in the F11 boot override menu. YMMV here, though, as the x399 may have BIOS options not available in a non-workstation board.

Windows 10 is hot plug aware. However, it only enumerates the PCIe bus at startup so adding or ejecting an NVMe drive to/from a rack after boot requires a manual hardware refresh in Device Manager to get the drive to show up in or disappear from the system. You can do this manually at Device Manager, or there is also a Microsoft utility called DevCon (Device Console) which is part of several different Microsoft tookits which you can use to create a shortcut to manually refresh the hardware at will from an elevated command prompt using the command devcon.exe rescan. I have not yet investigated the issue on Linux Mint, though I expect it won't be such an easy solution there (if it is even possible).

@BarkingGhostar , was there specifically anything else you wanted to know?
 
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Steltek

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Yes, DevManView should also work just fine and is definitely a lot easier to get than Devcon.

So far, as using one rack is concerned, the device seems to do what I needed it to do as I can swap OSes quickly, or even (with the second rack, or probably - though I haven't tried it yet - with a USB to NVMe adapter) clone a clean OS install to use in creating customized versions of an OS intended for specific purposes (i.e. a Windows install intended for only for coding, or one for gaming, diagnostics, running virtual machines, etc) using the same OS license without violating the software license (since it is running on the same hardware). Handy, that.

Now, for a downside - I've noticed issues with using two racks in Windows. I don't necessarily think they are an issue with the racks themselves, but rather with Windows (or BIOS) hardware detection having very poor support for PCIe hot plug activities outside SATA drives. Plus, I doubt IcyDock intended for two racks to actually be installed and used on the same system and likely didn't test for that use case. @aigomorla is correct that 2.5" hotswap trays are much superior if you plan to be swapping a lot of drives in an out as Windows has support for this.

It appears that (at least on my system, anyway) a drive needs to be installed in the 2nd rack when you boot the system or the system will never be able to detect the 2nd rack post-boot even if a drive is later loaded to it. So long as you boot the system with a drive installed in the second rack, you can always change the drive installed in the second rack, do a device refresh, and the new drive will be detected. If your intent is to use the 2nd rack to do hot backups/clones, this will work fine so long as you make sure the backup drive is installed at boot time.

I haven't yet gotten so far in testing to determine if disabling the 2nd rack device in DevManView or Devcon before removing the drive will later allow it to be re-enabled and the drive swapped out without loosing the rack. We'll see.
 
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Nov 20, 2009
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@Steltek
Sir, you have been a wealth of information. Odd that the second rack would be recognized at boot if it was trayless. I guess the dock itself shuts something off with a tray isn't in it or something. Very odd. I had waned from using the existing front panel Icy products because I thought they were all nvme-tray but SATA connected where as I wanted an nvme tray solution that was PCIe3/4.
 

Steltek

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Mar 29, 2001
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@Steltek
Sir, you have been a wealth of information. Odd that the second rack would be recognized at boot if it was trayless. I guess the dock itself shuts something off with a tray isn't in it or something. Very odd. I had waned from using the existing front panel Icy products because I thought they were all nvme-tray but SATA connected where as I wanted an nvme tray solution that was PCIe3/4.

I'm sure now that these PCIe racks are just passive NVMe to 4x PCIe adapters that are electrically grounded to allow safe and easy swapping of NVMe drives. As passive devices, they aren't detected by the BIOS/UEFI BIOS at boot unless there is a drive in them to be detected. This is exactly the same manner in which those cheap $15-30 NVMe to 4x PCIe adapters sold at Amazon, Newegg, or eBay work.

If they connected to the SATA ports, it wouldn't be an issue because Windows has long had support for SATA hot plug if your BIOS supports it. Similarly, some of the other devices they sell require a compatible SAS/SATA host bus adapter to enable hot swap (like this one, which incidentally seems to use the same trays as the PCIe rack).

I do intend to ask Icy Dock about the hot plug detection problems.