I want someone to explain this to me in simple terms. . .

[episodic]

Ok, America makes very little these days - import, import, import - most everything.

Most of our new industries seem to be service related.

If we spend, spend, spend, and don't sell, sell, sell - how are we gonna survive economically as a 1st world power for the long term?

I don't think we can, but I never could understand the arguments of those that think we can. . .

Thanks for the simple breakdown in advance.

 

[Cashmoney995]

Because we won't unless we fix this country up.

And also, I don't call having the population of hispanics increasing to 50% in 30 years a good thing.
Its true most of them will never vote, but its also true that many of them won't have jobs either.

Unless we fix the borders, and fix the schools, and throw to hell all this sissy bs thats being farted around in our schools, we're going down the drain.

 

We produce knowledge and ideas. Service industries are worth more than you think - look at companies like MS, eBay, etc. Besides, the U.S. has some of the best academic institutions in the world and those aren't going away anytime soon.

We also have a culture and a society that's envied by many other cultures - everyone wants to live like an American, whether they admit it or not. 🙂

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: jumpr
We produce knowledge and ideas. Service industries are worth more than you think - look at companies like MS, eBay, etc. Besides, the U.S. has some of the best academic institutions in the world and those aren't going away anytime soon.

We also have a culture and a society that's envied by many other cultures - everyone wants to live like an American, whether they admit it or not. 🙂

i totally agree, there is nothing wrong with service industries...in fact I think they can carry us very far

 

[shortylickens]

This is approaching the level of discussion in the Bush thread. We may need to move this into P&N soon.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: jumpr
We produce knowledge and ideas. Service industries are worth more than you think - look at companies like MS, eBay, etc. Besides, the U.S. has some of the best academic institutions in the world and those aren't going away anytime soon.

We also have a culture and a society that's envied by many other cultures - everyone wants to live like an American, whether they admit it or not. 🙂

That did not answer my question at all.

Many service industries that are computer related are offshoring as well. Microsoft can't prop up the whole country. Academics will decline if there are no jobs as well. Already many institutions computer science programs are fizzling out due to lack of students and interest.

 

[Siva]

Originally posted by: episodic
Ok, America makes very little these days - import, import, import - most everything.

Most of our new industries seem to be service related.

If we spend, spend, spend, and don't sell, sell, sell - how are we gonna survive economically as a 1st world power for the long term?

I don't think we can, but I never could understand the arguments of those that think we can. . .

Thanks for the simple breakdown in advance.

There is no simple breakdown. No one knows if our economy will last the way it is going indefinately or if its on the verge of a complete collapse that could happen relatively soon. Weird stuff.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b

Originally posted by: jumpr
We produce knowledge and ideas. Service industries are worth more than you think - look at companies like MS, eBay, etc. Besides, the U.S. has some of the best academic institutions in the world and those aren't going away anytime soon.

We also have a culture and a society that's envied by many other cultures - everyone wants to live like an American, whether they admit it or not. 🙂

i totally agree, there is nothing wrong with service industries...in fact I think they can carry us very far

Service jobs (restaurants and such) pay poorly as well. Most good paying service jobs are computer jobs that are being offshored like crazy.

 

[chowderhead]

we have lost the manufacturing base. We cannot compete with 2 dollars a day with no benefits.
We now export our culture and ideas i.e. Disney, movies, tv shows, starbucks, coke. Once the world gets sick of that, we need to develop other products and ideas.
We are now fueled on debt and IOUs. Foreign countries are some of our biggest bankers so the day of reckoning is coming.

 

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: jumpr
We produce knowledge and ideas. Service industries are worth more than you think - look at companies like MS, eBay, etc. Besides, the U.S. has some of the best academic institutions in the world and those aren't going away anytime soon.

We also have a culture and a society that's envied by many other cultures - everyone wants to live like an American, whether they admit it or not. 🙂

That did not answer my question at all.

Many service industries that are computer related are offshoring as well. Microsoft can't prop up the whole country. Academics will decline if there are no jobs as well. Already many institutions computer science programs are fizzling out due to lack of students and interest.

People who graduate college in this country generally stay in this country. I don't have any hard figures, but I don't know anyone in my four years of college who's taken a job overseas after graduating.

Also, many of our products are made overseas, but AMERICAN companies oversee the manufacture of those products. Companies like The Gap, GE, Whirlpool and Toyota all have LARGE corporate or R&D bases in America.

And how can we forget companies like Pfizer, Merck, Eli Lilley, and Astra-Zeneca? All American companies making largely American-discovered drugs and discovering new ones all the time. We also have the news media, a HUGE industry that will never move overseas. Don't forget oil companies, truck drivers, road builders, construction crews and pilots. All industries that cannot feasibly move overseas.

Companies won't move out of the country unless it's financially feasible. If they have to pay for all their top scientists and engineers (who graduated from U.S. colleges) to relocate to foreign countries and have to pay to keep their standards of living up to par with the U.S., it just might be cheaper to stay in the U.S. and have their employees fend for themselves when it comes to sustenance, rather than transport them to Mexico/Indonesia/Yemen/etc.

EDIT: you mention compsci as one of the industries moving offshore. Other major professional fields, such as legal, medical, government and management are still in the U.S., and I haven't heard any rumblings that they'll be moving offshore anytime soon. It's pretty tough to go to the doctor when the doctor's located overseas. Yeah yeah, we can use telecommunications, etc. to go to the doctor, but the public won't stand for that. Trust me.

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: Cashmoney995
Because we won't unless we fix this country up.

And also, I don't call having the population of hispanics increasing to 50% in 30 years a good thing.
Its true most of them will never vote, but its also true that many of them won't have jobs either.

Unless we fix the borders, and fix the schools, and throw to hell all this sissy bs thats being farted around in our schools, we're going down the drain.

Nice!

 

[Kalbi]

we generate the ideas, other countries just make the stuff we think up. wat's wrong with that?

also, remember we make awesome missiles, tanks, fighter jets, some star wars shvt so if some country is going to bring a "day of reckoning" to us, we'll pwn them.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: jumpr
We produce knowledge and ideas. Service industries are worth more than you think - look at companies like MS, eBay, etc. Besides, the U.S. has some of the best academic institutions in the world and those aren't going away anytime soon.

We also have a culture and a society that's envied by many other cultures - everyone wants to live like an American, whether they admit it or not. 🙂

That did not answer my question at all.

Many service industries that are computer related are offshoring as well. Microsoft can't prop up the whole country. Academics will decline if there are no jobs as well. Already many institutions computer science programs are fizzling out due to lack of students and interest.

People who graduate college in this country generally stay in this country. I don't have any hard figures, but I don't know anyone in my four years of college who's taken a job overseas after graduating.

Also, many of our products are made overseas, but AMERICAN companies oversee the manufacture of those products. Companies like The Gap, GE, Whirlpool and Toyota all have LARGE corporate or R&D bases in America.

And how can we forget companies like Pfizer, Merck, Eli Lilley, and Astra-Zeneca? All American companies making largely American-discovered drugs and discovering new ones all the time. We also have the news media, a HUGE industry that will never move overseas. Don't forget oil companies, truck drivers, road builders, construction crews and pilots. All industries that cannot feasibly move overseas.

Companies won't move out of the country unless it's financially feasible. If they have to pay for all their top scientists and engineers (who graduated from U.S. colleges) to relocate to foreign countries and have to pay to keep their standards of living up to par with the U.S., it just might be cheaper to stay in the U.S. and have their employees fend for themselves when it comes to sustenance, rather than transport them to Mexico/Indonesia/Yemen/etc.

EDIT: you mention compsci as one of the industries moving offshore. Other major professional fields, such as legal, medical, government and management are still in the U.S., and I haven't heard any rumblings that they'll be moving offshore anytime soon. It's pretty tough to go to the doctor when the doctor's located overseas. Yeah yeah, we can use telecommunications, etc. to go to the doctor, but the public won't stand for that. Trust me.

Yes, but most of those professions require people to make a good salary to be able to afford to go to them. Where will those people continue to be employed. Everyone can't be a lawyer or doc or work for the government.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
This is approaching the level of discussion in the Bush thread. We may need to move this into P&N soon.

hey😛


😉

 

[Kalbi]

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: jumpr
We produce knowledge and ideas. Service industries are worth more than you think - look at companies like MS, eBay, etc. Besides, the U.S. has some of the best academic institutions in the world and those aren't going away anytime soon.

We also have a culture and a society that's envied by many other cultures - everyone wants to live like an American, whether they admit it or not. 🙂

That did not answer my question at all.

Many service industries that are computer related are offshoring as well. Microsoft can't prop up the whole country. Academics will decline if there are no jobs as well. Already many institutions computer science programs are fizzling out due to lack of students and interest.

People who graduate college in this country generally stay in this country. I don't have any hard figures, but I don't know anyone in my four years of college who's taken a job overseas after graduating.

Also, many of our products are made overseas, but AMERICAN companies oversee the manufacture of those products. Companies like The Gap, GE, Whirlpool and Toyota all have LARGE corporate or R&D bases in America.

And how can we forget companies like Pfizer, Merck, Eli Lilley, and Astra-Zeneca? All American companies making largely American-discovered drugs and discovering new ones all the time. We also have the news media, a HUGE industry that will never move overseas. Don't forget oil companies, truck drivers, road builders, construction crews and pilots. All industries that cannot feasibly move overseas.

Companies won't move out of the country unless it's financially feasible. If they have to pay for all their top scientists and engineers (who graduated from U.S. colleges) to relocate to foreign countries and have to pay to keep their standards of living up to par with the U.S., it just might be cheaper to stay in the U.S. and have their employees fend for themselves when it comes to sustenance, rather than transport them to Mexico/Indonesia/Yemen/etc.

EDIT: you mention compsci as one of the industries moving offshore. Other major professional fields, such as legal, medical, government and management are still in the U.S., and I haven't heard any rumblings that they'll be moving offshore anytime soon. It's pretty tough to go to the doctor when the doctor's located overseas. Yeah yeah, we can use telecommunications, etc. to go to the doctor, but the public won't stand for that. Trust me.

Yes, but most of those professions require people to make a good salary to be able to afford to go to them. Where will those people continue to be employed. Everyone can't be a lawyer or doc or work for the government.

You're forgetting accounting, management, sales, entrepreneurs, retailers, e-tailers, ebayers, shvt i can go on forever. just because we don't physically make the stuff, as long as we invent it and develop it, we are in the clear.

 

Originally posted by: episodic
Yes, but most of those professions require people to make a good salary to be able to afford to go to them. Where will those people continue to be employed. Everyone can't be a lawyer or doc or work for the government.

Just walk around town and see what people do for a job: accounting, retail, entrepreneurs, landlords, biomed engineers, payroll processing, banks, gas station clerk, police officer, waiter, waitress, taxi driver, bus driver, college professor, etc.

Capitalism supports all those jobs. I don't see many of them (with the exception of bank and payroll processing, perhaps) moving overseas anytime soon. Those are all generally well-paying steady jobs that must be in the U.S. to function correctly.

What exactly do you see that will not enable the U.S. economy to survive?

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: Kalbi

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: jumpr
We produce knowledge and ideas. Service industries are worth more than you think - look at companies like MS, eBay, etc. Besides, the U.S. has some of the best academic institutions in the world and those aren't going away anytime soon.

We also have a culture and a society that's envied by many other cultures - everyone wants to live like an American, whether they admit it or not. 🙂

That did not answer my question at all.

Many service industries that are computer related are offshoring as well. Microsoft can't prop up the whole country. Academics will decline if there are no jobs as well. Already many institutions computer science programs are fizzling out due to lack of students and interest.

People who graduate college in this country generally stay in this country. I don't have any hard figures, but I don't know anyone in my four years of college who's taken a job overseas after graduating.

Also, many of our products are made overseas, but AMERICAN companies oversee the manufacture of those products. Companies like The Gap, GE, Whirlpool and Toyota all have LARGE corporate or R&D bases in America.

And how can we forget companies like Pfizer, Merck, Eli Lilley, and Astra-Zeneca? All American companies making largely American-discovered drugs and discovering new ones all the time. We also have the news media, a HUGE industry that will never move overseas. Don't forget oil companies, truck drivers, road builders, construction crews and pilots. All industries that cannot feasibly move overseas.

Companies won't move out of the country unless it's financially feasible. If they have to pay for all their top scientists and engineers (who graduated from U.S. colleges) to relocate to foreign countries and have to pay to keep their standards of living up to par with the U.S., it just might be cheaper to stay in the U.S. and have their employees fend for themselves when it comes to sustenance, rather than transport them to Mexico/Indonesia/Yemen/etc.

EDIT: you mention compsci as one of the industries moving offshore. Other major professional fields, such as legal, medical, government and management are still in the U.S., and I haven't heard any rumblings that they'll be moving offshore anytime soon. It's pretty tough to go to the doctor when the doctor's located overseas. Yeah yeah, we can use telecommunications, etc. to go to the doctor, but the public won't stand for that. Trust me.

Yes, but most of those professions require people to make a good salary to be able to afford to go to them. Where will those people continue to be employed. Everyone can't be a lawyer or doc or work for the government.

You're forgetting accounting, management, sales, entrepreneurs, retailers, e-tailers, ebayers, shvt i can go on forever. just because we don't physically make the stuff, as long as we invent it and develop it, we are in the clear.

But traditionally these people were supported by persons making good mony in the manufacturing sector (and other sectors) - now that the middle class are disappearing - are these other professions incomes not eventually going to go down the tubes?

 

[biostud]

The global market would collapse with US, so we close our eyes and keep the engine running.

 

Originally posted by: episodic
But traditionally these people were supported by persons making good mony in the manufacturing sector (and other sectors) - now that the middle class are disappearing - are these other professions incomes not eventually going to go down the tubes?

What do you mean by "disappearing?"

No one is MOVING overseas to chase their jobs...those blue-collar workers are staying in the U.S. Unemployment is staying pretty darn steady, so those people ARE finding jobs. I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say that the above industries can't be supported with offshoring of jobs. When jobs are offshored, people find new work. Homo Sapiens Sapiens are resourceful beings; they will find ways to provide sustenance when their primary method of doing so is cut off.

 

[Kalbi]

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: Kalbi

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: jumpr
We produce knowledge and ideas. Service industries are worth more than you think - look at companies like MS, eBay, etc. Besides, the U.S. has some of the best academic institutions in the world and those aren't going away anytime soon.

We also have a culture and a society that's envied by many other cultures - everyone wants to live like an American, whether they admit it or not. 🙂

That did not answer my question at all.

Many service industries that are computer related are offshoring as well. Microsoft can't prop up the whole country. Academics will decline if there are no jobs as well. Already many institutions computer science programs are fizzling out due to lack of students and interest.

People who graduate college in this country generally stay in this country. I don't have any hard figures, but I don't know anyone in my four years of college who's taken a job overseas after graduating.

Also, many of our products are made overseas, but AMERICAN companies oversee the manufacture of those products. Companies like The Gap, GE, Whirlpool and Toyota all have LARGE corporate or R&D bases in America.

And how can we forget companies like Pfizer, Merck, Eli Lilley, and Astra-Zeneca? All American companies making largely American-discovered drugs and discovering new ones all the time. We also have the news media, a HUGE industry that will never move overseas. Don't forget oil companies, truck drivers, road builders, construction crews and pilots. All industries that cannot feasibly move overseas.

Companies won't move out of the country unless it's financially feasible. If they have to pay for all their top scientists and engineers (who graduated from U.S. colleges) to relocate to foreign countries and have to pay to keep their standards of living up to par with the U.S., it just might be cheaper to stay in the U.S. and have their employees fend for themselves when it comes to sustenance, rather than transport them to Mexico/Indonesia/Yemen/etc.

EDIT: you mention compsci as one of the industries moving offshore. Other major professional fields, such as legal, medical, government and management are still in the U.S., and I haven't heard any rumblings that they'll be moving offshore anytime soon. It's pretty tough to go to the doctor when the doctor's located overseas. Yeah yeah, we can use telecommunications, etc. to go to the doctor, but the public won't stand for that. Trust me.

Yes, but most of those professions require people to make a good salary to be able to afford to go to them. Where will those people continue to be employed. Everyone can't be a lawyer or doc or work for the government.

You're forgetting accounting, management, sales, entrepreneurs, retailers, e-tailers, ebayers, shvt i can go on forever. just because we don't physically make the stuff, as long as we invent it and develop it, we are in the clear.

But traditionally these people were supported by persons making good mony in the manufacturing sector (and other sectors) - now that the middle class are disappearing - are these other professions incomes not eventually going to go down the tubes?

why would they? manufacturing is nothing without the idea created by the entreprenuer who hires management to manage the manufacturing and sales team who sells and accountants to count the sales and finance who calculates future profits and secretaries who take the phone calls.

Think about it this way. Imagine one society that is self sustaining. Now label all the service related people and researchers as "American" and all the people who are in the manufacturing sector as "Chinese." It's called globalization.

 

[HBalzer]

The jobs being outsourced to other countries are still run by American companies. So the Chinese makes cheap products then we sell the products to the Chinese and other countries for a huge profit.

One thing that will get us is the loss of Education in regards to Math, Physics, Engineering, and the like.

 

[Fenixgoon]

our labor laws cause goods to be produced/sold at a higher price?

 

[Kalbi]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
our labor laws cause goods to be produced/sold at a higher price?

short answer: yes

 

[dullard]

1) We do manufacture goods. Quite a bit. For example, Intel alone had $9.4 billion in revenue last quarter and a ~$35.5 billion revenue over the last year. That puts Intel alone far above the GDP of many countries (scroll for examples). Then add to that, all the other companies in the United States.

2) What is wrong with service? Some entire countries economy is based on services. Liechtenstein is an example of a service only economy. (#23 on that GDP per capita list). Note: some countries aren't listed, so don't take the #23 as an absolute ranking. Ok, I admit Liechtenstein isn't a world power, but it is the only example I know of without any industry.

3) In the ideal extreme, isn't it wonderful to buy everything and never have to pay for it? Think about it. If we keep buying everything that the other countries make, and they don't buy any of our stuff, then we can just print money and keep buying. We can have our cake and eat it too. We'll have all the US goods (in this extreme ideal we don't sell them internationally, AND we can have all the international goods). Will we ever have this extreme? No. But it shows that it isn't necessarilly a bad thing to have a trade deficit.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: HBalzer
The jobs being outsourced to other countries are still run by American companies. So the Chinese makes cheap products then we sell the products to the Chinese and other countries for a huge profit.

One thing that will get us is the loss of Education in regards to Math, Physics, Engineering, and the like.

at least the wealth are still making there money :roll: