I totally blew it... which lens and settings would you have used?

[Krioni]

My current gear:
-Nikon D50
-Nikon 18-55 kit lens
-Nikon 55-200 lens
-Nikon 50mm f/1.8 lens *manual focus*
-Generic Monopod
**Notably missing... an external flash unit.**

The fight was held in a smallish venue. There were roughly 750 - 1000 people there. The lighting was not super dark, but the lights were pretty dim. I was standing ring side.

I kind of got flustered and ended up shooting the whole fight in the built in sports mode using my 18-55 lens. I **KNOW** that wasn't the right thing to do and the pictures showed it. They were nearly all blurry. I feel horrible for messing up his first fight.

He lost, so maybe he just won't want to remember the fight

Anyway, I would just like to hear what you guys would have done in this situation.

Thanks for your input and help. Maybe you'll save me for his next fight.

 

[randomlinh]

drop the kit lens, and shoot the 50mm wide open, bumping the ISO to 800/1600. Stop down from there if at all possible. Pictures will probably be really noisy, but I would say better than blurry. But it really depends on what "lights were pretty dim" means. If dim enough, you may not have had a shot w/o a flash anyway.

altho, the 50mm lens I bet was probably too long to use in your situation?

 

[Krioni]

Well, I think with me being ring side, there would have been enough light for the 50mm lens if I had it fairly open.

The 50mm probably would have gotten me in fairly close, which would have been okay.... especially if not blurry.

As a note, I just added that my 50mm is a MANUAL focus lens. That's why I originally shyed away from it.

 

[jpeyton]

Put your camera in "S" (shutter priority) mode, dial the shutter to between 1/200-1/320; that should be enough to stop motion in ambient light, but it depends on what they're doing. A shutter speed might be good enough to eliminate blur while they're grappling, but might not be fast enough to freeze a kick or punch.

Bump the ISO to 800 first; check take a shot to check your exposure. If it's underexposed, crank up the ISO to 1600.

Shoot RAW; at high ISO, you'll need to do a little more post-processing to fix exposure and reduce noise.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

i shoot at break dancing events and i would hazard a guess that the lighting is in the same region. enough for us to comfortably see, but just not good enough for a camera. we are quite lucky at our uni to some times have the hi-power LED spot lamps on the dance floor, lots of pure white light.


but either way.... no matter what light setup they give us on the night, the only lens i can comfortably use without a big flash is the 50mm, wide open at f1.8 in aperture priority and on my canon i find that AI Focus and AI Servo (the two modes that are supposed to help focus on moving objects) just do not work. its better to leave it in one shot an repeateadly half press the shutter. i see yours is manual focus so you'll have to practice being quick and accurate as i imagine theyre moving about quite fast

i generally start in aperture priority and then see what type of shutter speed the camera suggests to get me a good exposure, then i usually switch to manual with those settings and tweak throughout the night

at my last event i could only manage f1.8, 1/125th and ISO1600 at best

at the previous event with the better lighting i think was able to get away with 1/250- 1/400th shutter speed. heres the results

http://www.flickr.com/photos/m...ets/72157601442013951/

shots from the most successful night start halfway down. i had to shoot in S jpeg setting i think coz i only have a 1gb card.

 

[Fardringle]

It might prevent you from getting the whole ring in your shots from that close, but using the prime wide open should let you use faster shutter speeds which should help remove some of the blurriness. As randomlinh said, depending on the light you might not be able to get shots no matter what you do, but in a situation where the subject is moving fast (like an MMA fight) you need the fastest shutter speed you can get in order to stop the motion in your shots.

Personally, I think I would have started out using Shutter Priority mode and setting the shutter to something like 1/250 and seeing what other settings the camera says you need. If the ISO is still decent (800 or less) then stick with that. If not, you might just have to either deal with high ISO and noisy pictures, settle for blurry shots, or use an external flash if the arena allows it.

edit: Wow. I actually typed this about 30 minutes ago and hit save but it didn't show up until now.

 

[Krioni]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Since my 50mm is manual focus, do you think it would stay relatively in focus while the fighters are in a close area to where I set the focus? Sorry, that's confusing. What I'm asking is let's say they're grapling. They are moving around for sure, but they are staying in the same general space in the ring. Would I have to reset the focus every time they move an inch, or would it pretty much stay in focus on that general area? I hope that question is less confusing than it sounds.

 

[Anubis]

indoor lighting can be deceptive, youre prob gonna have to shoot between 800-1600 ISO and with an apature of 2.8 or larger, as most have said, the f/2.8 zooms were made for indoor event shooting, you prob dont want to shoot any slower then 1/125

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Krioni
Thanks for the suggestions.

Since my 50mm is manual focus, do you think it would stay relatively in focus while the fighters are in a close area to where I set the focus? Sorry, that's confusing. What I'm asking is let's say they're grapling. They are moving around for sure, but they are staying in the same general space in the ring. Would I have to reset the focus every time they move an inch, or would it pretty much stay in focus on that general area? I hope that question is less confusing than it sounds.

Using a prime manual focus, you may want to set the focus on the general area and change your position a little each time instead of refocusing, because by the time you get the focus set correctly the shot is gone.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Using a prime manual focus, you may want to set the focus on the general area and change your position a little each time instead of refocusing, because by the time you get the focus set correctly the shot is gone.

Agreed, and if you're using your MF lens, set the shutter to continuous. Your D50 does 2.5FPS, so just hold down the trigger for a second or two. If the subjects are constantly moving in/out of focus, you'll have a group of 3-5 photos you can pick from for best focus.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

If it's fast action and you absolutely need need need a shutter speed like 1/125, then force it to that value, set the ISO to the highest you're comfortable with, set the aperture to the largest you're comfortable with, and just shoot. A lot of them will be underexposed, but hopefully you'll be able to bring out a good deal of data during RAW processing.

For example:

I need 1/200s to freeze action.
I'm comfortable shooting up to ISO 1600.
My lens can go to f/1.8, but I don't feel comfortable with this because DOF will be too thin and focus will be off 95% of the time, so I do f/2.8.

I shoot with these settings in manual mode and push the exposure of the pictures later during RAW processing.

I personally don't like shutter priority for this because you have no control over the aperture. If you set the shutter priority to 1/200s and ISO1600, the camera will probably shoot at f/1.8, resulting in a lot of out of focus shots, depending on movement and focus accuracy.

I would avoid the manual focus altogether. Manual focus + action + wide aperture has never worked well for me, even with focusing aids like a split screen (the 1.5x viewfinder doesn't help matters either). A lot of time using manual focus what I think is in focus is actually not at all. Things like glasses and contacts and diopter adjustments can screw this up as well.

 

[Krioni]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Krioni
Thanks for the suggestions.

Since my 50mm is manual focus, do you think it would stay relatively in focus while the fighters are in a close area to where I set the focus? Sorry, that's confusing. What I'm asking is let's say they're grapling. They are moving around for sure, but they are staying in the same general space in the ring. Would I have to reset the focus every time they move an inch, or would it pretty much stay in focus on that general area? I hope that question is less confusing than it sounds.

Using a prime manual focus, you may want to set the focus on the general area and change your position a little each time instead of refocusing, because by the time you get the focus set correctly the shot is gone.

Good idea, thank you!

 

[Krioni]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
If it's fast action and you absolutely need need need a shutter speed like 1/125, then force it to that value, set the ISO to the highest you're comfortable with, set the aperture to the largest you're comfortable with, and just shoot. A lot of them will be underexposed, but hopefully you'll be able to bring out a good deal of data during RAW processing.

The action is indeed very fast in a mixed marial arts fight. In fact, most of the fights were finished in about 2 minutes... with a LOT of action in those 2 minutes.

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
For example:
I need 1/200s to freeze action.
I'm comfortable shooting up to ISO 1600.
My lens can go to f/1.8, but I don't feel comfortable with this because DOF will be too thin and focus will be off 95% of the time, so I do f/2.8.

OK, so go a little less than wide open aperture and bump up the ISO to what's needed.

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I shoot with these settings in manual mode and push the exposure of the pictures later during RAW processing.

I'm not very experienced with post processing, particularly with RAW... but, I have lightroom and basic exposure adjustments seem easy enough.

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I personally don't like aperture priority for this because you have no control over the aperture. If you set the shutter priority to 1/200s and ISO1600, the camera will probably shoot at f/1.8, resulting in a lot of out of focus shots, depending on movement and focus accuracy.

Did you mean you don't like *shutter* priority?
So, would you shoot all in full manual mode with the settings as you've described so that you can control both shutter speed and aperture?

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I would avoid the manual focus altogether. Manual focus + action + wide aperture has never worked well for me, even with focusing aids like a split screen (the 1.5x viewfinder doesn't help matters either). A lot of time using manual focus what I think is in focus is actually not at all. Things like glasses and contacts and diopter adjustments can screw this up as well.

I don't wear contacts or glasses and have pretty good sight. However, I know what you mean because it is REALLY hard to tell through the LCD or viewfinder if things are truly in focus. There are plenty of times that I think things are in focus only to look on the computer screen and quickly delete the picture in disgust.

Thank you and everyone else so much for your response

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Krioni
I don't wear contacts or glasses and have pretty good sight. However, I know what you mean because it is REALLY hard to tell through the LCD or viewfinder if things are truly in focus. There are plenty of times that I think things are in focus only to look on the computer screen and quickly delete the picture in disgust.

Thank you and everyone else so much for your response

I shoot Canon so I'm not familiar with the D50, but this is where a DOF preview button comes in to play.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: Krioni

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
If it's fast action and you absolutely need need need a shutter speed like 1/125, then force it to that value, set the ISO to the highest you're comfortable with, set the aperture to the largest you're comfortable with, and just shoot. A lot of them will be underexposed, but hopefully you'll be able to bring out a good deal of data during RAW processing.

The action is indeed very fast in a mixed marial arts fight. In fact, most of the fights were finished in about 2 minutes... with a LOT of action in those 2 minutes.

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
For example:
I need 1/200s to freeze action.
I'm comfortable shooting up to ISO 1600.
My lens can go to f/1.8, but I don't feel comfortable with this because DOF will be too thin and focus will be off 95% of the time, so I do f/2.8.

OK, so go a little less than wide open aperture and bump up the ISO to what's needed.

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I shoot with these settings in manual mode and push the exposure of the pictures later during RAW processing.

I'm not very experienced with post processing, particularly with RAW... but, I have lightroom and basic exposure adjustments seem easy enough.

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I personally don't like aperture priority for this because you have no control over the aperture. If you set the shutter priority to 1/200s and ISO1600, the camera will probably shoot at f/1.8, resulting in a lot of out of focus shots, depending on movement and focus accuracy.

Did you mean you don't like *shutter* priority?
So, would you shoot all in full manual mode with the settings as you've described so that you can control both shutter speed and aperture?

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I would avoid the manual focus altogether. Manual focus + action + wide aperture has never worked well for me, even with focusing aids like a split screen (the 1.5x viewfinder doesn't help matters either). A lot of time using manual focus what I think is in focus is actually not at all. Things like glasses and contacts and diopter adjustments can screw this up as well.

I don't wear contacts or glasses and have pretty good sight. However, I know what you mean because it is REALLY hard to tell through the LCD or viewfinder if things are truly in focus. There are plenty of times that I think things are in focus only to look on the computer screen and quickly delete the picture in disgust.

Thank you and everyone else so much for your response

Go to an aperture where you feel confident you can get adequate focus with the depth of field at that aperture. In some situations you can get away with f/1.8. In situations where there's a lot of in and out movement, f/1.8 may not be a good idea. If your camera just can't focus that accurately, then f/1.8 may not be a good idea as well.

Basic exposure settings could be all you need, along with shadow adjustments if you have them. CS2/3 also has a shadow recovery tool.

Oops, yeah, I meant shutter priority.

I use manual so that I can lock in all the values. So yeah, shoot in full manual mode and get something with autofocus and make sure you choose your focus points well (autofocus doesn't do much if your camera decides to be stupid and focuses on a foot instead of a face if you let the camera decide which focus point it wants to use.)

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Krioni
I don't wear contacts or glasses and have pretty good sight. However, I know what you mean because it is REALLY hard to tell through the LCD or viewfinder if things are truly in focus. There are plenty of times that I think things are in focus only to look on the computer screen and quickly delete the picture in disgust.

Thank you and everyone else so much for your response

I shoot Canon so I'm not familiar with the D50, but this is where a DOF preview button comes in to play.

Ehhh.... if you're shooting wide open (or close to it) already and you hit the DOF preview button.... you're not accomplishing much. All it does is allow you to look through a stopped down aperture. If your aperture isn't even stopped down to begin with...

DOF preview for me has always been for stopped down apertures like f/8 or f/16 so that you can see how much of the scene will be in focus before you take the shot, because without it you're looking through a wide open lens all the time.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Krioni
I don't wear contacts or glasses and have pretty good sight. However, I know what you mean because it is REALLY hard to tell through the LCD or viewfinder if things are truly in focus. There are plenty of times that I think things are in focus only to look on the computer screen and quickly delete the picture in disgust.

Thank you and everyone else so much for your response

I shoot Canon so I'm not familiar with the D50, but this is where a DOF preview button comes in to play.

Ehhh.... if you're shooting wide open (or close to it) already and you hit the DOF preview button.... you're not accomplishing much. All it does is allow you to look through a stopped down aperture. If your aperture isn't even stopped down to begin with...

DOF preview for me has always been for stopped down apertures like f/8 or f/16 so that you can see how much of the scene will be in focus before you take the shot, because without it you're looking through a wide open lens all the time.

True, I guess in this case if he's wide it won't help too much.
I use it a lot in macro even wide open.

 

[Krioni]

I'm not even sure if my D50 has a DOF preview.... guess I'll check into that tonight.

Thanks

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Krioni
I'm not even sure if my D50 has a DOF preview.... guess I'll check into that tonight.

Thanks

From quick Googling it seems the D50 does not have a DoF Preview button.

 

[Krioni]

Thanks for looking that up!