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" I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space" Says Gabe

Elixer

Elixer

Lifer
http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valv...-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/

Steam + linux = win.

The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People don’t realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior.

“We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.
Click to expand...
 
I have my doubts regarding the greater impact of Steam on GNU/Linux, but I'm interested in seeing what happens. They need to fix Unity's performance hit before release though. That'll give people a bad experience, and if that happens, they may not get another chance.
 
It makes sense for Gabe N to weigh heavily in favor of Linux because that is hopefully going to be a profit stream that has be previously unrealized. Steam on PC isn't going anywhere, so there is nothing to lose by beating on Windows sounding the horn for linux gamers.

Worst case scenerio, Windows 8 has an abysmal adoption rate and Microsoft will react by either pushing a Service pack that deals with the problem or more likely focus Win8 purely on the tablet scene as was meant and work on the next version for a Windows 7 replacement. Windows 7 is still young and hugely popular. Windows 8 might be hitting the market soon, but it would be suicide to end Windows 7 support anytime soon. Microsoft didn't say anything about ending Windows 7 sales, so I wouldn't worry about it for now. In 2-3 years it might be a different story, but for the time being I'm not to concerned about PC gaming.

As to the Microsoft App Store fears, that will be predominately a tablet issue where MS is placing restrictions on certifcation. As long as Steam provides a quality product, people are going to stay loyal and developers will continue to use them. The fear of low margins is BS because Steam has had a honeymoon period in which they have enjoyed a virtual monopoly in digital game sales. He's right that the margins will get hit, but only because there is finally going to be real competition and they won't be able to enjoy the large windfall anymore.

As for linux, I'm as supportive as the next person, but no developer is going to make a serious attempt at creating games for Steam as long as the platform is disorganized and hardware developers treat drivers as a side project. You think creating content for Windows is bad with all the hardware setups? With linux you have the same problem, except now you'll have various distributions with their various package systems and there various package versions and whatever driver support they can get. DirectX is more than just Direct3D. OpenGL is a great start, but there is more to games than GPU support. Love it or hate it, the reason the PC is such a great gaming platform is because of DirectX standards. I'm very curious how Linux plans to compete with that level of multimedia support (GPU, SPU, controllers, networking, etc...)
 
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Anteaus said:
With linux you have the same problem, except now you'll have various distributions with their various package systems and there various package versions and whatever driver support they can get.
Click to expand...

They can standardize around Ubuntu, which I've been advocating all along. Everyone else can work on their own without support. Once you're on one GNU/Linux, it's trivial to port over to any other. Ubuntu is the "n00b" GNU/Linux, so the least capable should get a good experience OOTB.
 
dagamer34 said:
You don't think he said that because Steam competes with Windows 8's App Store in any way perhaps?
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Absolutely. He didn't just decide that GNU/Linux is awesome sauce, and support it to be a cool guy. Whatever /his/ motivations are, decent GNU/Linux support on Steam will make a lot of people happy. I'm fairly indifferent, but if it helps bring more people to GNU/Linux, even under a closed system like Steam, it'll be good for us all.
 
I agree. If I would not like to play PC games I would probably by now not be using Windows.

But then I'm also lazy. Dual boot seems too tedious as I can do the things i want to just with Windows.
 
dagamer34 said:
You don't think he said that because Steam competes with Windows 8's App Store in any way perhaps?
Click to expand...

Of course. He's worried that the platform he's been piggybacking for so long is going to ship with its own online distribution services. The comments on Reddit are hilarious, people actually think Gabe is fighting for the greater good.
 
Anteaus said:
As for linux, I'm as supportive as the next person, but no developer is going to make a serious attempt at creating games for Steam as long as the platform is disorganized and hardware developers treat drivers as a side project. You think creating content for Windows is bad with all the hardware setups? With linux you have the same problem, except now you'll have various distributions with their various package systems and there various package versions and whatever driver support they can get. DirectX is more than just Direct3D. OpenGL is a great start, but there is more to games than GPU support. Love it or hate it, the reason the PC is such a great gaming platform is because of DirectX standards. I'm very curious how Linux plans to compete with that level of multimedia support (GPU, SPU, controllers, networking, etc...)
Click to expand...

It is not that hard, just like directx, they create some form of libraries that all games depends on, those library could be different on different linux distributions, and the games executable would just work on everything.

the same as the current .Net application, many .net applications that are created for windows can run smoothly on linux as long as the "mono-runtime" is installed, the same .exe file work on all linux and windows, while the mono runtime libraries are a bit different in each distro.
 
Much respect for Gabe N, but without additional details that statement is ham-fisted at best. The biggest problem Valve is facing with Windows 8 is that Microsoft's store competes with his.
 
Maybe he was lamenting the end of the desktop PC. Tablet OS is a catastrophe for the PC? :hmm:
 
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Anteaus said:
It makes sense for Gabe N to weigh heavily in favor of Linux because that is hopefully going to be a profit stream that has be previously unrealized. Steam on PC isn't going anywhere, so there is nothing to lose by beating on Windows sounding the horn for linux gamers.

Worst case scenerio, Windows 8 has an abysmal adoption rate and Microsoft will react by either pushing a Service pack that deals with the problem or more likely focus Win8 purely on the tablet scene as was meant and work on the next version for a Windows 7 replacement. Windows 7 is still young and hugely popular. Windows 8 might be hitting the market soon, but it would be suicide to end Windows 7 support anytime soon. Microsoft didn't say anything about ending Windows 7 sales, so I wouldn't worry about it for now. In 2-3 years it might be a different story, but for the time being I'm not to concerned about PC gaming.

As to the Microsoft App Store fears, that will be predominately a tablet issue where MS is placing restrictions on certifcation. As long as Steam provides a quality product, people are going to stay loyal and developers will continue to use them. The fear of low margins is BS because Steam has had a honeymoon period in which they have enjoyed a virtual monopoly in digital game sales. He's right that the margins will get hit, but only because there is finally going to be real competition and they won't be able to enjoy the large windfall anymore.

As for linux, I'm as supportive as the next person, but no developer is going to make a serious attempt at creating games for Steam as long as the platform is disorganized and hardware developers treat drivers as a side project. You think creating content for Windows is bad with all the hardware setups? With linux you have the same problem, except now you'll have various distributions with their various package systems and there various package versions and whatever driver support they can get. DirectX is more than just Direct3D. OpenGL is a great start, but there is more to games than GPU support. Love it or hate it, the reason the PC is such a great gaming platform is because of DirectX standards. I'm very curious how Linux plans to compete with that level of multimedia support (GPU, SPU, controllers, networking, etc...)
Click to expand...

You got this part right.
 
ViRGE said:
The biggest problem Valve is facing with Windows 8 is that Microsoft's store competes with his.
Click to expand...

I think it's more than that, though I agree it is one issue. The bigger one is this

Jaskalas said:
Maybe he was lamenting the end of the desktop PC. Tablet OS is a catastrophe for the PC?
Click to expand...

MS transitioning away from the typical desktop space (win8) is no good news for Steam, or Valve, or Blizzard, or anyone who's been making money off the PC gaming market.
 
Gabe is crying because Windows App Store will compete with Steam and compete well. Steam is probably going to be expanded into being more than just a game distributing service and that means it's going to be very similar to Windows App Store.

Good for consumers, 'cause competition is good. Bad for Gabe, 'cause now he'll have less money for lard.
 
WaitingForNehalem said:
Is he forgetting about the Ubuntu app store which currently sells commercial/paid apps? Honestly, Ubuntu is a joke of an open/free OS.
Click to expand...
So because you have the option of paying developers for their work, it's not a open/free OS? Last I checked, you can still do/change whatever you want in Ubuntu, just like every other distro.

The ability to purchase commercial apps is a great option to have. Especially for business.
 
Every release of Ubuntu is becoming more and more commercialized. What was once a free software center is now an app store. The whole point of Linux is FOSS. It is obvious Canonical is trying to turn a profit since it is an organization after all. Why bother with Ubuntu if it really isn't any different than a commercial OS. It is just copying Apple with the dumbing down (Unity) and app store. Fedora is much better IMO.
 
Also, Linux is a joke on the desktop. Seriously, it does not compare to Windows. This is coming from someone with a lot of experience in Linux servers and programming.
 
WaitingForNehalem said:
Every release of Ubuntu is becoming more and more commercialized. What was once a free software center is now an app store. The whole point of Linux is FOSS. It is obvious Canonical is trying to turn a profit since it is an organization after all. Why bother with Ubuntu if it really isn't any different than a commercial OS. It is just copying Apple with the dumbing down (Unity) and app store. Fedora is much better IMO.
Click to expand...

There's no discrepancy with commercial "free" software. The free in FOSS doesn't have a single thing to do with price. It's free as in libre. freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of press...

What Ubuntu is doing wrong, is selling, and giving away non-free software, like Flash player, patent encumbered codecs, and binary blobs in the kernel. I'm in full agreement with the FSF regarding non-free software, but I'm also more practical about it. For user freedom, Ubuntu is better than Windows, and it it will likely always be. It's an intermediate point to running free software.

The greatest danger is in complacency, and people saying "this is good enough". Steam on GNU/Linux? Great! Now free the code. We bought in to your system, now respect our rights and give us free software. Free Steam, free games, and free gfx drivers. If people learn to value their freedom, they'll demand, and pay for good software.

Finally, fedora better than Ubuntu? Yah, right. fedora ships with Gnome3. The other current pariah in GNU/Linux desktops :^D

I will give fedora credit for being a freer system though. I believe a default install will be 100% free software. If your issue is in the commercialization of GNU/Linux, I hope you know fedora is RedHat's test bed. You know, the open source juggernaut that made $2,000,000,000 last year ;^)

Edit:
Richard Stallman's take on Steam...

Richard Stallman said:
A well known company, Valve, that distributes nonfree computer games with Digital Restrictions Management, recently announced it would distribute these games for GNU/Linux. What good and bad effects can this have?

I suppose that availability of popular nonfree programs on GNU/Linux can boost adoption of the system. However, our goal goes beyond making this system a “success”; its purpose is to bring freedom to the users. Thus, the question is how this development affects users' freedom.

Nonfree game programs (like other nonfree programs) are unethical because they deny freedom to their users. (Game art is a different issue, because it isn't software.) If you want freedom, one requisite for it is not having nonfree programs on your computer. That much is clear.

However, if you're going to use these games, you're better off using them on GNU/Linux rather than on Microsoft Windows. At least you avoid the harm to your freedom that Windows would do.

Thus, in direct practical terms, this development can do both harm and good. It might encourage GNU/Linux users to install these games, and it might encourage users of the games to replace Windows with GNU/Linux. My guess is that the direct good effect will be bigger than the direct harm. But there is also an indirect effect: what does the use of these games teach people in our community?

Any GNU/Linux distro that comes with software to offer these games will teach users that the point is not freedom. Nonfree software in GNU/Linux distros already works against the goal of freedom. Adding these games to a distro would augment that effect.

If you want to promote freedom, please take care not to talk about the availability of these games on GNU/Linux as support for our cause. Instead you could tell people about the Liberated Pixel Cup free game contest, the Free Game Dev Forum, and the LibrePlanet Gaming Collective's free gaming night.
Click to expand...

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/nonfree-games.en.html
 
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lxskllr said:
There's no discrepancy with commercial "free" software. The free in FOSS doesn't have a single thing to do with price. It's free as in libre. freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of press...

What Ubuntu is doing wrong, is selling, and giving away non-free software, like Flash player, patent encumbered codecs, and binary blobs in the kernel. I'm in full agreement with the FSF regarding non-free software, but I'm also more practical about it. For user freedom, Ubuntu is better than Windows, and it it will likely always be. It's an intermediate point to running free software.

The greatest danger is in complacency, and people saying "this is good enough". Steam on GNU/Linux? Great! Now free the code. We bought in to your system, now respect our rights and give us free software. Free Steam, free games, and free gfx drivers. If people learn to value their freedom, they'll demand, and pay for good software.

Finally, fedora better than Ubuntu? Yah, right. fedora ships with Gnome3. The other current pariah in GNU/Linux desktops :^D

I will give fedora credit for being a freer system though. I believe a default install will be 100% free software. If your issue is in the commercialization of GNU/Linux, I hope you know fedora is RedHat's test bed. You know, the open source juggernaut that made $2,000,000,000 last year ;^)

Edit:
Richard Stallman's take on Steam...



https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/nonfree-games.en.html
Click to expand...


  1. Last I checked the commercial software for sale in the app store wasn't open-source. Therefore, it isn't FOSS.
  2. Define user freedom as your statement makes no sense.
  3. Again, you keep talking about freedom. It is an OS, not a constitution. Simply comparing Ubuntu and Windows together is completely ignorant. Windows is so far ahead, just look at its usability, standards, GUI, security, intuitiveness, networking, etc... .NET alone is an amazing framework that makes programming an awesome experience. In fact, it is so awesome that the Linux community is copying it method-for-method (Mono) since programming is so terrible in Linux.
  4. I hope you know you can use several other DMs in Fedora. KDE is IMO the best DM since it actually allows you to configure things. Unity and GNOME 3 are both disasters.
 
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