I think weed objectively made me a better person today. And yea, I'd roll my eyes at this too.

[Zeze]

This is a serious thread.

I don't give a crap about WeEd iZ KooL maN mentality. I'm too old for that crap. And is THC even cool anymore now that it's no longer counter culture? This is more of a 'clinical/behavioral' assessment as an adult with a mortgage, and kids. This is regarding THC vaping.

To be clear, I was bit of a clean body snob and never touched THC or anything else outside of alcohol until recently.

Too much prefacing, you get it. Points:

• You have epiphanies. The creative juice flowing is real and it holds up objectively in the world when you're sober. I was stressed at my job handling a difficult project. It required getting a person to like me. While under the influence, the ideas just fireworked in my head... 1) talk to Jake to get his buy-in 2) link them with that crucial third person, etc.. on Monday, I carried out those actions and it saw positive results. rofl wtf. That's a hard fact.
• It's an effective painkiller. It's a nice tylenol super strength.
• It made me more social and IRL we chat far more with my friends online. A close friend and I recently grew distant due to some fighting. But while chatting high (LOL),
• So above is VERY important. That means, personally I'm realizing I just have my head stuck my ass most of the time.
• Amazingly, since gaining this outlook, I continue to act that way and reap the benefits socially/professionally IRL.

This forum is old. We're all old. You don't need me to tell you that THC is for everyone recreationally. Let's not kid ourselves pro-leafers, they're behaviorally addictive, so net result is that it's an addictive substance period.

THC is very interesting indeed. Because I'm high right now.

 

[highland145]

Proven weed increased incidents of schizophrenia.

OP?

Maybe.

 

[Zeze]

Proven weed increased incidents of schizophrenia.

OP?

Maybe.

Ugh I should've taken out the last line for comedic effect.

 

[highland145]

Ugh I should've taken out the last line for comedic effect.

Let me help you with that.

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/marijuana-mental-illness-violence/

 

[Zeze]

Let me help you with that.

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/marijuana-mental-illness-violence/

Thanks for your constructive link - going through it.

I don't care to defend THC.

 

[highland145]

Thanks for your constructive link - going through it.

I don't care to defend THC.

I don't care at all but I have a child so OTC. I have a BFF that "might" benefit from pot but my state doesn't allow it. I'd shoot your mom in the head if I could help him. Twice.



lol that's a clear drug law.

 

[destrekor]

Let me help you with that.

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/marijuana-mental-illness-violence/

None of the evidence I have seen on this topic has even been remotely conclusive IMHO. And there's a crucial argument missing from much of the "damning" research - what begat what?

There has always been the claim that marijuana induces psychoses of various sorts - but quite frankly, from my own studies I'd say it's the opposite. Those various diseases tend to begin to surface in little bits during youth, and can often drive one to drug use or risky behaviors, really drive your personality development throughout youth in fact. Drug use of any kind can cause some of those issues to surface much faster or in a more apparent way.

Mental health issues tend to drive youth and young adults to drugs in the first place. Others may have thought they were normal but find out oh they actually have some major issues, but then we get to trying to determine a cause and point at recent differences, which might be a recent uptake in a particular drug habit.

Point being - while at some point it may be possible, for the foreseeable future I don't see there becoming a way to tell if someone had mental health risk factors that surfaced after drug use, or if drug use caused them to develop from nothing. Knowing mental health the way I do, I highly doubt the latter. Mental health is far more complicated than the idea of drugs quickly and permanently switching some wires around. Historically, much of the anger about changes in people after drug use is that they sometimes became very counter-culture; they were believing in new movements, trying to get back to nature, rebelling against government, all things that most adults consider toxic behavior. But frankly humans are wont to rebel, and will find a way to fall in under some rebellious group at some point if pointed in that direction. And in other scenarios many of us may disagree with their motives and ideals, but take a step back and you may find that they aren't inherently ill, they just had an epiphany and that gets them to change their ways. Now that can shit the bed obviously and end up meaning you fall into a very bad group and throw your life away with more drugs, but in reality any life-changing experience can completely change the course of your life. For many individuals, a lot of drugs will produce the very same effect, just condensed and usually without harm to anyone. In a way it's like PTSD, but the final effect isn't necessarily negative - a major event that shatters your current perspective can change you for the worse or for the better and drugs taken at sufficient doses will very much produce a profound imprint that may last a lifetime. But that's just a memory - not a disease. If it was a bad experience perhaps something akin to PTSD.

A real negative risk of marijuana is stunted/slowed development in the prefrontal cortex - this area of the brain is the last to physiologically mature, one that is still growing and shaping neural pathways well into the 20s for most adults. Excessive drug use as a teen can severely stymie that development. Perhaps that tied with pre-existing mental health conditions or risk-factors all combine for disastrous effect. What I know is I have yet to see any clean data that medically links drug use, any drug use, to development of a discrete mental health disorder.

Now, with sufficient and excessive drug use to the point where you have debilitated yourself for years being couch-lock stoned all day every day, and that started in your teens, then I could see a medical argument that the resulting changes in brain development could indeed cause a significant and readily-diagnosable medical malady (of which mental health disorders count).

The same can be said of drinking, gambling, sex, etc. Physiological addiction can impact your health. But occasional, non-addict levels of use? No way, not based on what we know right now. As I hoped to explain above, could it be a catalyst? Absolutely. A cause? No, I don't buy that. I'll accept the evidence that ever proves that, but I side with the opposing view that the mental health conditions drive the behavior.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

None of the evidence I have seen on this topic has even been remotely conclusive IMHO. And there's a crucial argument missing from much of the "damning" research - what begat what?

There has always been the claim that marijuana induces psychoses of various sorts - but quite frankly, from my own studies I'd say it's the opposite. Those various diseases tend to begin to surface in little bits during youth, and can often drive one to drug use or risky behaviors, really drive your personality development throughout youth in fact. Drug use of any kind can cause some of those issues to surface much faster or in a more apparent way.

Mental health issues tend to drive youth and young adults to drugs in the first place. Others may have thought they were normal but find out oh they actually have some major issues, but then we get to trying to determine a cause and point at recent differences, which might be a recent uptake in a particular drug habit.

Point being - while at some point it may be possible, for the foreseeable future I don't see there becoming a way to tell if someone had mental health risk factors that surfaced after drug use, or if drug use caused them to develop from nothing. Knowing mental health the way I do, I highly doubt the latter. Mental health is far more complicated than the idea of drugs quickly and permanently switching some wires around. Historically, much of the anger about changes in people after drug use is that they sometimes became very counter-culture; they were believing in new movements, trying to get back to nature, rebelling against government, all things that most adults consider toxic behavior. But frankly humans are wont to rebel, and will find a way to fall in under some rebellious group at some point if pointed in that direction. And in other scenarios many of us may disagree with their motives and ideals, but take a step back and you may find that they aren't inherently ill, they just had an epiphany and that gets them to change their ways. Now that can shit the bed obviously and end up meaning you fall into a very bad group and throw your life away with more drugs, but in reality any life-changing experience can completely change the course of your life. For many individuals, a lot of drugs will produce the very same effect, just condensed and usually without harm to anyone. In a way it's like PTSD, but the final effect isn't necessarily negative - a major event that shatters your current perspective can change you for the worse or for the better and drugs taken at sufficient doses will very much produce a profound imprint that may last a lifetime. But that's just a memory - not a disease. If it was a bad experience perhaps something akin to PTSD.

A real negative risk of marijuana is stunted/slowed development in the prefrontal cortex - this area of the brain is the last to physiologically mature, one that is still growing and shaping neural pathways well into the 20s for most adults. Excessive drug use as a teen can severely stymie that development. Perhaps that tied with pre-existing mental health conditions or risk-factors all combine for disastrous effect. What I know is I have yet to see any clean data that medically links drug use, any drug use, to development of a discrete mental health disorder.

Now, with sufficient and excessive drug use to the point where you have debilitated yourself for years being couch-lock stoned all day every day, and that started in your teens, then I could see a medical argument that the resulting changes in brain development could indeed cause a significant and readily-diagnosable medical malady (of which mental health disorders count).

The same can be said of drinking, gambling, sex, etc. Physiological addiction can impact your health. But occasional, non-addict levels of use? No way, not based on what we know right now. As I hoped to explain above, could it be a catalyst? Absolutely. A cause? No, I don't buy that. I'll accept the evidence that ever proves that, but I side with the opposing view that the mental health conditions drive the behavior.

Look... maaaaan... you can't go making 6 GINORMOUS paragraph posts in a thread about marijuana... you feel me bro?

 

[highland145]

None of the evidence I have seen on this topic has even been remotely conclusive IMHO. And there's a crucial argument missing from much of the "damning" research - what begat what?

There has always been the claim that marijuana induces psychoses of various sorts - but quite frankly, from my own studies I'd say it's the opposite. Those various diseases tend to begin to surface in little bits during youth, and can often drive one to drug use or risky behaviors, really drive your personality development throughout youth in fact. Drug use of any kind can cause some of those issues to surface much faster or in a more apparent way.

Mental health issues tend to drive youth and young adults to drugs in the first place. Others may have thought they were normal but find out oh they actually have some major issues, but then we get to trying to determine a cause and point at recent differences, which might be a recent uptake in a particular drug habit.

Point being - while at some point it may be possible, for the foreseeable future I don't see there becoming a way to tell if someone had mental health risk factors that surfaced after drug use, or if drug use caused them to develop from nothing. Knowing mental health the way I do, I highly doubt the latter. Mental health is far more complicated than the idea of drugs quickly and permanently switching some wires around. Historically, much of the anger about changes in people after drug use is that they sometimes became very counter-culture; they were believing in new movements, trying to get back to nature, rebelling against government, all things that most adults consider toxic behavior. But frankly humans are wont to rebel, and will find a way to fall in under some rebellious group at some point if pointed in that direction. And in other scenarios many of us may disagree with their motives and ideals, but take a step back and you may find that they aren't inherently ill, they just had an epiphany and that gets them to change their ways. Now that can shit the bed obviously and end up meaning you fall into a very bad group and throw your life away with more drugs, but in reality any life-changing experience can completely change the course of your life. For many individuals, a lot of drugs will produce the very same effect, just condensed and usually without harm to anyone. In a way it's like PTSD, but the final effect isn't necessarily negative - a major event that shatters your current perspective can change you for the worse or for the better and drugs taken at sufficient doses will very much produce a profound imprint that may last a lifetime. But that's just a memory - not a disease. If it was a bad experience perhaps something akin to PTSD.

A real negative risk of marijuana is stunted/slowed development in the prefrontal cortex - this area of the brain is the last to physiologically mature, one that is still growing and shaping neural pathways well into the 20s for most adults. Excessive drug use as a teen can severely stymie that development. Perhaps that tied with pre-existing mental health conditions or risk-factors all combine for disastrous effect. What I know is I have yet to see any clean data that medically links drug use, any drug use, to development of a discrete mental health disorder.

Now, with sufficient and excessive drug use to the point where you have debilitated yourself for years being couch-lock stoned all day every day, and that started in your teens, then I could see a medical argument that the resulting changes in brain development could indeed cause a significant and readily-diagnosable medical malady (of which mental health disorders count).

The same can be said of drinking, gambling, sex, etc. Physiological addiction can impact your health. But occasional, non-addict levels of use? No way, not based on what we know right now. As I hoped to explain above, could it be a catalyst? Absolutely. A cause? No, I don't buy that. I'll accept the evidence that ever proves that, but I side with the opposing view that the mental health conditions drive the behavior.

Daymn all in 3 minutes?


Agenda much?


I still have no idea. Refer to post #6.

 

[destrekor]

Daymn all in 3 minutes?


Agenda much?

??

3 minutes?

And my only agenda would be against misinformation. Much of these arguments have stuck around for decades with little evidence, while time and time again new research disputes those old beliefs. So I hope you'll excuse me when I tend to side with exhaustive evidence.

Now, the research is admittedly young, and still hampered by draconian regulations; I'll fully subscribe to a solid body of evidence that discusses the harms and risks with peer reviewed methodologies and data. I haven't found that yet.

Talking points like a rise in different diseases mirrors the same arguments and falsehoods that the anti-vax movement pushes. Oh there are more diagnoses of such and such these days, clearly it's because of this other thing that has also risen.
Sorry, correlation does not equal causation. Other more significant variables can more readily be linked, and some of the most significant ones are the increase in public awareness, education of medical professionals, and more effective screening methods. Plus, we aren't doing horrifying things like simply throwing away the troubled youth and locking up anyone remotely different in mental health wards. Our world has changed significantly and so have our medical professions.

And then there's a significant number of potential environmental factors that complicate this research. Leaded gasoline really screwed things up, and there is far more solid evidence linking the rise in behavioral and mental health issues to lead in the environment than there is linking the same to marijuana.

It really reminds me of the hysteria about LSD ("acid") eating holes in your brain and little pockets of the drug in the brain causing the crazy flashbacks people talk about. None of it was rooted in fact, yet it persisted for an ungodly long time, and really screwed with potential positive research. Just now the scientific/medical community is getting back to studying hallucinogens; interestingly enough, linking back to what I had said about life-altering events and how drugs can mimic them, hallucinogens administered in controlled environments with safe doses are having significant breakthroughs in PTSD treatment.

Drugs aren't evil life-ruining creations. Poor treatment for addiction, mental health in general, and misinformation campaigns are life-ruining creations. Again, the anti-vax story is an excellent parable.

 

[destrekor]

Look... maaaaan... you can't go making 6 GINORMOUS paragraph posts in a thread about marijuana... you feel me bro?

Drugs are good, mmmkay?

And you must not read much if you consider those ginormous paragraphs. Granted I don't break them down journalism style with one or two sentence paragraphs more often than not. But it wasn't really that many words lol

Also comically enough, marijuana can make fingers get quite friendly with a keyboard, if you catch my drift

 

[highland145]

??

3 minutes?

And my only agenda would be against misinformation. Much of these arguments have stuck around for decades with little evidence, while time and time again new research disputes those old beliefs. So I hope you'll excuse me when I tend to side with exhaustive evidence.

Now, the research is admittedly young, and still hampered by draconian regulations; I'll fully subscribe to a solid body of evidence that discusses the harms and risks with peer reviewed methodologies and data. I haven't found that yet.

Talking points like a rise in different diseases mirrors the same arguments and falsehoods that the anti-vax movement pushes. Oh there are more diagnoses of such and such these days, clearly it's because of this other thing that has also risen.
Sorry, correlation does not equal causation. Other more significant variables can more readily be linked, and some of the most significant ones are the increase in public awareness, education of medical professionals, and more effective screening methods. Plus, we aren't doing horrifying things like simply throwing away the troubled youth and locking up anyone remotely different in mental health wards. Our world has changed significantly and so have our medical professions.

And then there's a significant number of potential environmental factors that complicate this research. Leaded gasoline really screwed things up, and there is far more solid evidence linking the rise in behavioral and mental health issues to lead in the environment than there is linking the same to marijuana.

It really reminds me of the hysteria about LSD ("acid") eating holes in your brain and little pockets of the drug in the brain causing the crazy flashbacks people talk about. None of it was rooted in fact, yet it persisted for an ungodly long time, and really screwed with potential positive research. Just now the scientific/medical community is getting back to studying hallucinogens; interestingly enough, linking back to what I had said about life-altering events and how drugs can mimic them, hallucinogens administered in controlled environments with safe doses are having significant breakthroughs in PTSD treatment.

Drugs aren't evil life-ruining creations. Poor treatment for addiction, mental health in general, and misinformation campaigns are life-ruining creations. Again, the anti-vax story is an excellent parable.

Just checking the time...

 

[highland145]

if you consider those ginormous paragraphs.

lol the humor.


Smile, destrekor, you must admit it.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Drugs are good, mmmkay?

And you must not read much if you consider those ginormous paragraphs. Granted I don't break them down journalism style with one or two sentence paragraphs more often than not. But it wasn't really that many words lol

Also comically enough, marijuana can make fingers get quite friendly with a keyboard, if you catch my drift

So can the barrel aged beer that is in my hands

It also coincidentally makes me too lazy too read that many words.

 

[destrekor]

Just checking the time...

What, like that's what I wrote that post in?

That's believable - I type a lot and fast, especially if I'm not rigorously editing either as I go or after.

Still, I'm not getting what you are alluding to. There was 12 minutes between your last post and my post, and about 40 minutes between the post of yours I quoted and when I submitted my post.

When I'm passionate the typing doesn't like to cease, I fight myself to attain a modicum of brevity.

 

[brianmanahan]

i'd probably try it if it were legal

well it actually could be legal for me because seizures, but my doctor would have to approve and so far she hasn't thought i need it

but come to think of it, even if my doctor approved it, my company would still fire me for taking it

so i'll pass

 

[destrekor]

So can the barrel aged beer that is in my hands

It also coincidentally makes me too lazy too read that many words.

hahaha indeed I do understand. It's far easier to type my lengthy posts than it is to read lengthy posts. I tend to just glaze over after so many words unless I really am intent to converse and get into the conversation at hand.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

hahaha indeed I do understand. It's far easier to type my lengthy posts than it is to read lengthy posts. I tend to just glaze over after so many words unless I really am intent to converse and get into the conversation at hand.

Which by the way - just to continue on from my last post....

One of things I find so unique is how people react so differently to alcohol. Some get friendly, some get violent. I certainly will get more... ahem... loud... but I also won't get to the point of touchy-feely.

I find the old adage of "A drunken man's words are a sober man's thoughts" is pretty accurate.

 

[highland145]

What, like that's what I wrote that post in?

That's believable - I type a lot and fast, especially if I'm not rigorously editing either as I go or after.

Still, I'm not getting what you are alluding to. There was 12 minutes between your last post and my post, and about 40 minutes between the post of yours I quoted and when I submitted my post.

When I'm passionate the typing doesn't like to cease, I fight myself to attain a modicum of brevity.

Didn't you come to Augusta a few years back?

 

[brianmanahan]

weed is gonna turn zeze into mayne

 

[highland145]

weed is gonna turn zeze into mayne

So?

 

[destrekor]

i'd probably try it if it were legal

well it actually could be legal for me because seizures, but my doctor would have to approve and so far she hasn't thought i need it

but come to think of it, even if my doctor approved it, my company would still fire me for taking it

so i'll pass

The workplace approach is slowly changing. Just recently NYC seems intent to shed regular marijuana screening except for critical functions or for something like incident review (you ran into something with a forklift - that's a drug test!).

Companies in pot-friendly states have started having to ignore off-the-job pot use because not doing so kills the quality labor pool.

Here in Ohio, home of the latest anti-abortion heartbeat bill, we're probably fucked for a while yet. We're so backwards in so many things, if this state legalizes marijuana before it's legalized nationally, I wouldn't doubt if they come up with some kind of harsh employment regulation that effectively damns you if you so choose to light up.

 

[destrekor]

Didn't you come to Augusta a few years back?

Yup. Oh damn, that was about 8 years ago!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The workplace approach is slowly changing. Just recently NYC seems intent to shed regular marijuana screening except for critical functions or for something like incident review (you ran into something with a forklift - that's a drug test!).

Companies in pot-friendly states have started having to ignore off-the-job pot use because not doing so kills the quality labor pool.

Here in Ohio, home of the latest anti-abortion heartbeat bill, we're probably fucked for a while yet. We're so backwards in so many things, if this state legalizes marijuana before it's legalized nationally, I wouldn't doubt if they come up with some kind of harsh employment regulation that effectively damns you if you so choose to light up.

I've been employed pretty much ever since I graduated from College in 2010.

Although all of the employers mentioned the ability (In the initial legal docs / employment agreement I sign) - I have never been drug tested... Not before employment, nor during. Something tells me it's only for low level employment.... Much like alcoholism, they don't seem to give a shit as long as you can show up sober and do the work.

 

[sandorski]

Addictive? Being a long time tobacco smoker addicted to Nicotine all I can say is that if THC is addictive, it's nothing like Nicotine addiction. When the THC high ends I feel no noticeable withdrawal symptoms or hangover. Most often I just feel somewhat refreshed, almost to the point of being super sober. I won't say it's not addictive, but if it is, it's nothing like Nicotine, Caffeine, or other Drug addictions.

THC certainly stimulates Thinking, but not every Wow Man moment is inspiration, although some certainly are. That part of the experience is almost like being in a Dream state, in the sense that the ideas being explored are presented to you as being Real including an emotional state as if it were real. Usually when I realize the thought I just explored had no basis in Reality, that's when I "Whoah" or giggle a bit. So take all Thoughts with a healthy dose of skepticism, no matter how convincing they may seem, even when Sober.