I think the time is right - soliciting input on my new build

[DSF]

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
Gaming, surfing, very basic work-related stuff like word processing and power point.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
$1200 including the parts listed below that I've already bought. If I can achieve my goals with less than that and squeak in around $1100, even better.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
USA - Whatever vendor is most cost-effective, most likely MicroCenter/Newegg/Amazon. I don't mind buying from multiple places to save money.

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
Performance/dollar is the name of the game for me.

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
Already own all the basic peripherals. Not reusing internals from the current rig, but here's what I've purchased so far:

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 ($80)
CPU: Intel i5 3570K ($190 at MC)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 3 ($44 on eBay)
Motherboard: Asrock Z77Pro3 or similar ($55 counting combo discount)
RAM: 2x4 GB Samsung DDR3-1600 ($32)
PSU: Corsair HX650 ($80 AR)
OS: Windows 8 Pro ($30 AR)

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
I love to tinker and plan to overclock both the CPU and GPU (if possible) modestly.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?
1680x1050. I know it's falling slightly behind the times, but I'm fine with it for now. I don't plan to replace it.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Note that it is usually not cost or time effective to choose your build more than a month before you actually plan to be using it.
Everything except the GPU will be purchased before December 31. Worst case scenario I have to borrow the GTX460 from my current gaming rig and buy a new GPU in a month. Hopefully I'll get enough Christmas money to buy the GPU right after Christmas. (I figure this is very likely).

X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?
I have a valid Vista x64 license. While I don't think Vista is as terrible as some people do, it has given me headaches here and there. I wouldn't mind a change, but that needs to fit into the budget. Should I drop the money on a new Win7 license, a new Win8 license, or buy the $40 Win8 upgrade?

Most parts to finish it off:

GPU: Sapphire HD7950 3GB or similar ($280 AR)
SSD : Intel 330 180GB ($140, can I do better?)
HDD : Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200 RPM 1TB ($85)

So by my count that comes to $1025 give or take for shipping and such.

Comments/Questions:
1) Is there a noticeable difference in noise levels between 7950s that have similar fan configs (for example, Gigabyte, Sapphire, HIS, XFX, etc. all offer double-fan cards. Are there any that are significantly better than the competition?)
2) I would love to trim the price on the SSD. Newegg has the Intel 330 180GB for $140. Is there a meaningful difference between that and the M4? Is it worth trying to hold out for a holiday deal on a Samsung 840 Pro?
3) As mentioned above, I need a cooler recommendation. I'm willing to spend a little more than a Hyper212 if there's a noticeable difference in noise level. I'm fairly sensitive to PC noise.
4) Never built with a bottom-mounted PSU before. Am I likely to need any extensions?
5) Hoping to use a GPU utility to set the 7950 fan speed very low during idle periods with an automatic ramp-up during gaming when I have my headphones on. Will this make a 7950 quiet enough to fit in with the rest of the system during surfing/typing? Is it even necessary?
6) Is there any reason not to use Fractal's SSD mounting location behind the motherboard?
7) As mentioned above, I have several OS options. Use Vista for free, buy Win7, buy Win8, or use the $40 Win8 upgrade deal. Any opinions?
8) Anything else you would do to improve value here, or reduce noise?

 

[Zap]

Comments/Questions:
1) Is there a noticeable difference in noise levels between 7950s that have similar fan configs (for example, Gigabyte, Sapphire, HIS, XFX, etc. all offer double-fan cards. Are there any that are significantly better than the competition?)
2) I would love to trim the price on the SSD. Newegg has the Intel 330 180GB for $140. Is there a meaningful difference between that and the M4? Is it worth trying to hold out for a holiday deal on a Samsung 840 Pro?
3) As mentioned above, I need a cooler recommendation. I'm willing to spend a little more than a Hyper212 if there's a noticeable difference in noise level. I'm fairly sensitive to PC noise.
4) Never built with a bottom-mounted PSU before. Am I likely to need any extensions?
5) Hoping to use a GPU utility to set the 7950 fan speed very low during idle periods with an automatic ramp-up during gaming when I have my headphones on. Will this make a 7950 quiet enough to fit in with the rest of the system during surfing/typing? Is it even necessary?
6) Is there any reason not to use Fractal's SSD mounting location behind the motherboard?
7) As mentioned above, I have several OS options. Use Vista for free, buy Win7, buy Win8, or use the $40 Win8 upgrade deal. Any opinions?
8) Anything else you would do to improve value here, or reduce noise?

1) There may be some differences, but I'm not sure most people would hear it.

2) SSD pricing is extremely volatile, and I've seen pricing and availability fluctuate to the extremes by the hour or less. What you may want to hold out for are lower prices. The Crucial M4 256GB has been available in the $160-170 range quite frequently. The Intel 330 180GB has been available for around $100 after rebate. Check the Hot Deals forum to see if any of the deals are still valid, and to give you historic pricing for you to target. Regarding all the SSDs you've mentioned (Crucial M4, Intel 330, Samsung 840 Pro) you may SEE a difference if you use synthetic benchmarks, but you will probably NOT FEEL any performance difference as you are using them. You will, however, notice a HUGE difference between smaller and larger SSDs if you ever run out of space. D:

3) For quiet air cooling with some overclocking, you probably want a big heatsink that has fins which are a bit farther apart from each other, which allows for lower airflow to be effective. Then, you will want a lower RPM PWM fan. The Hyper 212+ and Evo use 2000RPM fans, which even with PWM can be noisy. Cooler Master claims the fans run as low as 600RPM, but I haven't been able to get it that low in the couple of times I've used them. Take a look at the ZALMAN CNPS10X OPTIMA $35. The fan maxes out at 1700RPM, the fins are a bit wider than the 212+ and may also be a bit farther apart. Here is a review. I'm trying to figure out their charts because some coolers are listed multiple times (different fan settings) but it appears as if the 212+ and Evo outperform the OPTIMA at high fan RPMs (which makes sense, 2000RPM versus 1700RPM) but the OPTIMA outperforms at low RPMs. Maybe.

4) New PSUs usually have long enough cables.

5) I suggest you try it on stock settings first. Most graphics cards (especially high end ones) will automatically clock themselves down when not running games, and the fans are already temperature controlled.

6) ??? I would probably use them if I used that case.

7) I would do the $40 Win8 upgrade deal since you have a valid Vista to upgrade from.

8) Your build is actually very solid. I can make suggestions, but they would mostly either be nit-picking, or just to save a buck here and there. The savings can easily be eclipsed if a part goes on sale, or wiped out if it isn't in stock. I guess my only suggestion would be what I make to most people using only one graphics card. Why are you going ATX? Well, I guess the ATX version of the case is on sale right now making it cheaper than the mATX version of the same case, but unless going dual graphics cards I would almost always aim for smaller systems these days. Unless you run your system on the floor.

 

[DSF]

I do run the system on the floor. My desk is a really simple IKEA number that's basically just a table, so there's plenty of unused space under the desk and I'd rather have the table surface available for writing, sorting gaming cards, etc. Other than that I totally get your point about mATX/ITX.

 

[lehtv]

1) I find my Sapphire Dual-X quieter than the Sapphire Vapor-X I sent to RMA and I've read similar reports on the net. Gigabyte and Asus will also be very quiet, not sure about MSI (something in the TF3 blade design just looks noisy :>)

2) then don't buy it until you find a killer deal on slickdeals.net, for example

3) too bad Scythe left the US market (for now), Mugen 3 would've been great for you. Hyper 612 is a bit heavier than 212 Evo but has the same fan which is very quiet at idle but definitely audible at load... Or if it's not too expensive, the classic Prolimatech Megahalems-B with a silent Noiseblocker B12-PS would be awesome.

4) Not unless building in a full tower

5) Agree with Zap, idle noise will be very low by default. Can't hear my Dual-x over the case fans at idle and my PC is pretty quiet but not silent

6) It can interfere with cable management. If you're going to be using a hard drive cage for the 3.5" hard disk anyway, I'd recommend just putting the SSD in one of the slots in the cage

7) Agree with Zap

8) The XFX 550w will be audible at load and I've read it's quiet at idle but have no first hand experience. A silence enthusiast may find it unpleasant. Maybe a new TX650 $90 AR with semi-passive fan control, or a highly efficient Seasonic G550, also $90?

 

[mfenn]

I agree with Zap and lehtv for the most part.

4) You definitely won't need any to get the PC up and running, but you might need an extension for the EPS 12V in order to route it behind the motherboard tray.

5) Modern components are very quiet at idle, and you have a built-in advantage since you sit your PC on the floor. My system sits about 1' away from my on the desk and I cannot hear it at idle. Not "It doesn't bother me", but I literally cannot hear it even if I listed for it. I haven't done anything crazy to make it that way either. It's a Corsair 550D, Mugen 3, swapped case fans with Noctuas I had laying around, stock blower(!!) on a 6950 flashed to 6970, and an old ass Antec TP Trio. The only audible things are my two 5400RPM storage drives, so I've set them to spin down when idle. Long story short, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[DSF]

Thanks for all the help. I've been looking at power supplies, I'll probably wait for a little while and see if any deals on a PSU that's known to be quiet pop up.

I did have a question about the TX650 though.

Amazon has the TX650 for 89.99 without a rebate here.

On that page you can click on "modular series" and the modular version of the same PSU is only $3-4 more. From the Amazon description they appear to be just about identical except for the modular cables. (Both have semi-passive cooling, etc.) Are they both made by Seasonic?

That model definitely looks like a front-runner.

 

[lehtv]

Actually, the new TX series is by Chicony Power Technology, according to realhardtechx. http://realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page447.htm. I've never heard of them. But it's Corsair... I have little doubt that they're good quality

 

[DSF]

Hmm, if I read the link right it looks like the TX750s are made by Chicony but the TX650s are made by Channel Well. Interesting, it definitely gives me more reading to do - although that's one of the fun parts of a new build.

 

[lehtv]

You're right, my bad. The new units look all the same though, it'd be weird if they were from different manufacturers... TX650 TX750

 

[DSF]

Well the Corsair HX650 just went on sale. Seems to be similar with hybrid passive cooling, hybrid modular and Seasonic built. Hard to argue with that for $80 AR/AP/FS. I'll probably go that route...more power than I need, but should keep the noise level nice and low.

 

[lehtv]

HX is Seasonic built now? Interesting. I've never seen a modular 80+ Gold unit with semi-passive cooling at such a low price. That looks like a tempting deal for sure. And if you ever go crossfire/SLI in the next 7 years, you've got that covered too.

 

[ElFenix]

HX is Seasonic built now? Interesting. I've never seen a modular 80+ Gold unit with semi-passive cooling at such a low price. That looks like a tempting deal for sure. And if you ever go crossfire/SLI in the next 7 years, you've got that covered too.

according to whirlpool the lower wattage models are seasonic while the higher are CWT

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/psu_manufacturers

 

[riversend]

I have an older HX 520 and you would not even know there was a PSU based on noise. It is a bottom mount (P182) under the desk.

FYI, the Hyper 212 on my 3570k is probably the noisiest component at about 900rpm, except when the GPU (MSI TF fan design) is under load. Overall the system is pretty quiet. I overclocked the 3570k a bit, but took it off to keep the 212 at low rpm, it is pretty noisy with its stock fan when it spins up.

 

[DSF]

Alright, so the Intel SSDs I hear talked about most often on here are the Intel 330s.

The 160GB Intel X25-M is on sale for $89.99 AR. Is that drive worth getting? I've seen people say it's slower than new SSDs, but what does that mean in the real world? For someone who has never owned a hard drive faster than a Samsung Spinpoint 500GB would I even know the difference between an X25-M and a 330/M4/Samsung?

Thanks for all the help with this build Gen Hardware dudes.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Well, it's simply not as fast. The Bench says that the 330 is twice as "good" in every way (twice the IOPS, half the busy time, etc). The X-25M is, in turn, around twice as good as the fastest HDD around, the WD Velociraptor.
It's up to you, ultimately, to make a choice.

 

[lehtv]

I think $90 is too much to ask for that drive. SSD's are bought primarily for speed, not for capacity, and the X25-M sacrifices a lot of speed for improved cost per gigabyte. I'd rather do it the other way around - pay some extra for a drive twice as fast even if it's only 120GB.

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-internal-hard-drive-ssdsc2ct120a3k5
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-internal-hard-drive-ct128m4ssd2

 

[Zap]

Alright, so the Intel SSDs I hear talked about most often on here are the Intel 330s.

The 160GB Intel X25-M is on sale for $89.99 AR. Is that drive worth getting?

You missed the BF sales. Intel 330 180GB was for the same price, $89.99 after $30 rebate.

On "paper" the transfer rates of the older drive is 1/2 the newer ones, and around twice a typical fast HDD. In practice, the SSDs will feel similar and both will feel a LOT faster than a HDD.

The good thing about the X25-M G2 is that it is beyond reliable, with 35nm NAND and proven firmware.

The bad thing is you're not one of the cool kids.

Value-wise, however, I do somewhat agree in that I think it is a tad too much $$$.

 

[mfenn]

Well, it's simply not as fast. The Bench says that the 330 is twice as "good" in every way (twice the IOPS, half the busy time, etc). The X-25M is, in turn, around twice as good as the fastest HDD around, the WD Velociraptor.
It's up to you, ultimately, to make a choice.

No, the X25-M is a great deal more than twice as fast as a Velociraptor where it matters (random reads). The actual performance increase is around a factor of 100.

DSF, I think the X25-M G2 160GB is a reasonable deal at $90. Not great, but certainly worth considering. At the end of the day, any SSD is going to be so much faster than an HDD that the differences among them pale in comparison.

 

[DSF]

Yeah that was kind of what I was wondering. Well anyway, the X25-M deal is good until the 31st, so I can see if anything awesome pops up on the 26th or 27th. NCIX also appears to have the 180GB 330 for $130 with FS.

 

[DSF]

I'm about to jump on the Intel 520 180GB for $130/FS at BB:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285551

Any reason not to?

 

[Zap]

I'm about to jump on the Intel 520 180GB for $130/FS at BB:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285551

Any reason not to?

Well, the Intel 330 240GB has been around $130-140. Up to you. For an Intel 520 that is a good price.

 

[DSF]

Little update.

I did go ahead and get the $130 Intel 520 180GB.

Everything is here except the video card, which arrives tomorrow. It's all set up and running on the integrated graphics for now. Win8 loaded (and I actually find the interface pretty cool, although I'm still getting used to it) and Steam/Origin are downloading a few games for me.

The only issue is that I apparently got one of the HX650s that has two fan noise issues. One is an intermittent clicking, the other a periodic squealing. I think I'm going to arrange for an RMA and use a backup PSU for now. Then when the replacement comes I can verify that it's quiet, do all the final cable management, and be good to go.

I'm loving the rig so far though. Installs are crazy fast with an i5 and an SSD, and I'm pleased as punch with the R4. Quieter, roomier and better cable management than my old SOLO, and it even feels lighter.

 

[mfenn]

:thumbsup: Cool, glad you are liking it. Sorry to hear about the PSU fan issue though. Newegg will definitely take care of you.