Discussion I think the days of the United States being one country are numbered..

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
31,700
5,687
126
This is the only way. Republican base is too far gone.
Based on a very public attempt at lynching, sadly they are not the only ones.
Defeat / excise the Republicans, and you'll find there's a sizeable base in major cities who vote blue... but still want to watch the world burn.
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
7,395
3,241
136
Based on a very public attempt at lynching, sadly they are not the only ones.
Defeat / excise the Republicans, and you'll find there's a sizeable base in major cities who vote blue... but still want to watch the world burn.
They can stay with the crazies and not move if that's what they want.

No one is forcing them to do anything. We are just wanting to "opt-out" of Trumpistan.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
16,199
14,144
136
Republicans are not the only crazy hyper partisans voting yes to violence on the polls.
I am for a negotiated split with creating trade agreements and travel agreements, etc. Mostly because the right wing negotiates in bad faith, they are a party who worships a man who has zero principles after all, then it may come down to violence, unfortunately. But you can't compare the two sides equally as you are doing here. The Republicans want violence in order to overthrow democracy, elections have become an inconvenience to them when they lose and they try to suppress voting that they don't like. The Democrats that may support violence are in order to defend democracy. One is honorable, one is dishonorable, can you tell me which is which?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
20,754
7,670
136
Well, the first of the State’s national guards (Oklahoma) has now officially rebelled against the federal command authority, over vaccinations, and other states expected to follow. Governor replaced guard commander that was following federal directives with a lapdog that follows governor instead.

Establishing precedent to ignore directives from SecDef.
Edit: heh duplicate of immediately prior post
Slowmo insurrection.
 
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Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,224
1,535
126
No country last forever. In 20 years we could see something dramatic go down.
 

iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
6,084
1,241
136
I said it before in the last discussion about this subject, I'm not fucking moving again!!

I lived in Connecticut for 30 years. I live in Kentucky now... it's so much less expensive to live here.
 
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emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,606
1,280
126
Well, the first of the State’s national guards (Oklahoma) has now officially rebelled against the federal command authority, over vaccinations, and other states expected to follow. Governor replaced guard commander that was following federal directives with a lapdog that follows governor instead.

Establishing precedent to ignore directives from SecDef.
Edit: heh duplicate of immediately prior post
Biden better get a handle on this. This is a dangerously slippery slope.
 
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nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,328
7,062
136
Divorce? Eventually. No country's borders have remained permanent forever.

But, let's avoid the whole killing each other part. There's close to zero chance the US can "divorce" without it involving lots and lots of killing.

So, I'll post the link again.

Weaponize Federalism. Or at least adopt open, outright Federalism. Let Texas make abortion a capital offense. Allow California to legalize all drugs.

If they're going to be their own country anyway, who gives a shit if they do it, if it means there won't be political assassinations, and societal upheaval.



All of that said. Now are y'all starting to understand why "gun control" is a huge own-goal? The Republican end-goal is the destruction of democracy and open, outright fascism. It's not just local shitbags hanging effigies of Hillary Clinton in the middle of Dumbfuckistan anymore. It's elected Republican Representatives posting cartoons of themselves killing elected Democratic Representatives.

The Second Amendment isn't just a right, it's a responsibility.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
10,886
2,638
136
"One country" in theory only, definitely not in fact.
I'd say with the divisions and now the insanity coming into the mix i.e. QAnon, and etc etc, I would not say that "the days are numbered", I would say "It's about time".
"They" are not giving up, and "we" are not giving up, so then do what every parent does when the children act up, send them to their respective rooms. Donald, you go to your room, and Joe you go to your room.

I mean really.... MUST we deal with these crazy people? Must we insult our very intelligence? Must we pretend that this is normal or that they are normal, or that anything they do is normal, or that they are anything America as history has proven America to be?
Heck.... even a pandemic could not untie us but instead brought out even more insanity and even more insane people.

Yeah, I say it's time to divide.
Lets give our side the infrastructure and the Build Back Better and the vaccines and the climate control and the science. And let the other side have their coal and pot filled roads and their sickly dying people and their fear to wonder too near the edge of the earth hence they may fall off.
Give "them" what the want and, well.... then let us divide.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
55,171
7,954
126
Well, the first of the State’s national guards (Oklahoma) has now officially rebelled against the federal command authority, over vaccinations, and other states expected to follow. Governor replaced guard commander that was following federal directives with a lapdog that follows governor instead.

Establishing precedent to ignore directives from SecDef.
Edit: heh duplicate of immediately prior post
What the flying fuck is this stupid bullshit? Over a vaccine? Those dumb motherfuckers already got who-knows-how-many vaccines when they went to basic training.

Oh, right, because it's not actually about the vaccine, it's about sticking it to the shitlibs, I guess, because the only other option is "freedom"... freedom to stupidly die of a preventable disease, and spread it around as much as they want. I could maybe have more respect for them if it wasn't such a stupid hill to literally die on.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,304
240
106
Honestly there's probably just so much useless bloat in our current setup, that localism could be a win-win for everyone.
  • California will be dry on water, but no longer being the welfare provider to red states could probably fund a massive desalination system and continue operating as the 5th largest economy in the world.
  • The middle states could largely be exporters of natural resources.
And etc. But one things for sure: our quality of life in terms of luxuries will take a hit as China moves in to be the leader on the world stage. But at this point I'd rather see my son grow up in a happier society where people work less and aren't worried about the roof over their heads. If the best worst case is that we end up something like the EU, I'm fine with that.
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
7,395
3,241
136
Every passing day, Republicans make the Founding Fathers look dumber.
We had a foreign enemy as a villain then and needed to stick it out for our skins.

But you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
13,428
5,452
136
Repubs don't want to hand the gov't over to those "commie socialists". At some point they're going to refuse to do it, especially if they see a blue tsunami on the horizon gaining speed and size. Their refusal has manifested itself in ways that speak to violating the tenets of Our Constitution in all manner of ways along with thumbing their noses at the Rule Of Law we're ALL supposed to abide by. Trump firmly established that methodology and has made it a feature of their party. This they justify with disingenuous catch phrases so as to excuse their treasonous behavior and, of all things, miraculously transform their treason into acts of "defiant patriotism" being that they fashion themselves as the only true Americans of the nation.

They distinguish themselves from the rest of the nation by supporting racists, anarchists, religious activists who sin in the name of the Lord "because it's the right thing to do and the Lord knows it" and throwbacks that yearn for the yesteryears where the KKK had millions of members and hope to bring those days back with violence if necessary.
 

himkhan

Senior member
Jul 13, 2013
664
368
136
This will never happen, as you said it yourself, due to the oath taken. It would be hypocritical to do so.
What are you are you talking about? They are causing harm by their bad behaviors. Besides they didn't walk off the job to protest nor would the vaccinated staff. This would be done off the clock and on free comp time. No oaths broken. It's not like vaccinated doctors and nurses would be standing around at the hospital refusing to take care of COVID patients. Those that aren't working that day will be outside in strong numbers and the few that did not call in would be there to support the patients and the unvaccinated assholes and bring no harm. You can't abandon a patient. But you also can't abandon a patient you weren't there to take care of.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,802
3,814
136
The truth is there is no way to split the US into two without causing a civil war probably with a dozen different sides. As has already been pointed out every state and city is a near 50/50 split between parties. No matter where you draw the lines there are going to be people willing to fight to keep what they see as theirs.
It will be a bloodbath of epic proportions. The odds are pretty damn certain that at some point someone will use a nuke. Probably Texas against California. Then it becomes Armageddon.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
16,199
14,144
136
The truth is there is no way to split the US into two without causing a civil war probably with a dozen different sides. As has already been pointed out every state and city is a near 50/50 split between parties. No matter where you draw the lines there are going to be people willing to fight to keep what they see as theirs.
It will be a bloodbath of epic proportions. The odds are pretty damn certain that at some point someone will use a nuke. Probably Texas against California. Then it becomes Armageddon.
uhhhh no. many states are nowhere near an even split, and especially not the cities as you say, just like the rural areas are far more in another direction.

It's the only solution besides all of us living under an authoritarian fascist GQP rule. All you naysayers are basically saying just suck it up and deal with living under your future fascist overlords, because it is clear as day they don't respect democracy and they will overturn it next chance they get.
 
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gothuevos

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2010
1,365
1,109
136
uhhhh no. many states are nowhere near an even split, and especially not the cities as you say, just like the rural areas are far more in another direction.

It's the only solution besides all of us living under an authoritarian fascist GQP rule. All you naysayers are basically saying just suck it up and deal with living under your future fascist overlords, because it is clear as day they don't respect democracy and they will overturn it next chance they get.
Uhhh, it's already over.

 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,802
3,814
136
uhhhh no. many states are nowhere near an even split, and especially not the cities as you say, just like the rural areas are far more in another direction.

It's the only solution besides all of us living under an authoritarian fascist GQP rule. All you naysayers are basically saying just suck it up and deal with living under your future fascist overlords, because it is clear as day they don't respect democracy and they will overturn it next chance they get.
While there are quite a few places, especially in local government, where one side of the other wins with a comfortable margin, there is almost no where of any relevance that can be considered even close to single party. Even in liberal strongholds like Los Angeles the Democrats only win elections by 10-20 percent. That still means 30-40% of the population in what might be the most liberal place in the US is conservatives.

Besides all that fascist overlords don't let people leave without a fight, especially when they would be taking the majority of the population and the money with them. No, it will be war, and the GOP will destroy us all before losing.

There is no scenario that the US breaks up without it becoming a major war, and either the liberals lose that war or we all die.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,202
1,348
136
I feel we have been in a growing Civil war for a while now. The only reason it hasn't been a traditional shooting war is that battle lines are everywhere, inside households even. With the spread of fake news via propaganda and social media, it's never going to improve IMO.

My thought would be to form Jesusland out of the South and much of the west like the old meme pic, and everyone else can be in whatever other name you want to call it. I'll personally have to move but I'm planning on it anyway. Jesusland can put women and dark people back in their place if they are foolish enough to want to stay there, and form their mythical 1955 that is MAGA (or try to). I'd look forward to see how Jesusland's economy fares, I suspect they'd start a war of conquest out of necessity rather quickly.
 

gothuevos

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2010
1,365
1,109
136
Saw a take on Twitter that summed it up well.

Someone will chalk up the 2022 midterms as a "referendum on whatevs," when in reality it was a referendum on map making and redistricting. And Dems lost this battle, badly, a long time ago without even showing up.
 
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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
13,428
5,452
136
Saw a take on Twitter that summed it up well.

Someone will chalk up the 2022 midterms as a "referendum on whatevs," when in reality it was a referendum on map making and redistricting. And Dems lost this battle, badly, a long time ago without even showing up.
With the Repubs totally focused on our nation never having free and fair elections ever again, I wonder what it would take to mitigate their efforts in this regard. It really is a precursor for the GOP's efforts to claim outright and indefinite control of the gov't as it's their only way to win federal elections going into the future.

edit - syntax
 
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