I think that Israel is justified but no way in hell would I go to war for th

[cybrsage]

actually, the Irish kinda did conquer a land after the British.

I'm talking about the american frontier which was settled largely by Scot-Irish peoples.

Cannot argue with you on that one.

 

[cybrsage]

I had an odd conversation with a conservative minded coworker and he was under the opinion that a 'nuke' option should be on the table?? I was curious if there were other conservatives who felt that way?

I told him he was crazy to think that and the implications for our world would be catastrophic...

Nuclear weapons are only to be used as a way to prevent large scale invasion and nothing more. Well, they are also to be used to utterly destroy any nation who would use nuclear weapons offensively, to ensure no other nation does it again.

The problem with nuclear weapons is that they are just too powerful and too dirty to use - even the clean ones are dirty.

 

[micrometers]

I'm saying that the people who are criticizing israel as imperialist and racist are doing so with their nationhood needs met, so to speak. For instance, German citizenship is actually largely based on race. People who are ethnically German and but who have lived in say, Russia, for a few generations, when they want German citizenship it is easier for them to get it than it is for a Turk whose family had emigrated thirty years ago.

And that's okay IMO. It's okay to say that this country is for these peoples and this country is for these people. The Germans have their own country. The Turkish people have their own country as well.

Every country is founded in part on race I think, so it is hypocritical to accuse Israel of racism.

 

[cybrsage]

It is espeically stupid to call Israel a racist nation when almost 23% of its citizens are Arabs:

Ethnic groups:
Jewish 76.4% (of which Israel-born 67.1%, Europe/America-born 22.6%, Africa-born 5.9%, Asia-born 4.2%), non-Jewish 23.6% (mostly Arab) (2004)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html

 

[shadow9d9]

Not if I never give up my claim on my land. Every year since the Romans destroyed the Temple and started the diaspora, Jews have said "Next year in Jerusalem" in their holy celebrations. The claim to the land was never given up, just that the recovery of it was delayed.

I'm sure the people who peacefully lived there and were slaughtered or forced off their land would have been much happier if they knew that it was all ok because the jews wanted the land for a while. Brilliant.

So, the Romans kicked them out, and then 1000 years later they take it back. Under those requirements, pretty much any group could conquer any country. Groups have people , especially near europe, have at one point been somehwere else.. so why not just have everyone at perpetual justified war?

 

[micrometers]

I'm sure the people who peacefully lived there and were slaughtered or forced off their land would have been much happier if they knew that it was all ok because the jews wanted the land for a while. Brilliant.

So, the Romans kicked them out, and then 1000 years later they take it back. Under those requirements, pretty much any group could conquer any country. Groups have people , especially near europe, have at one point been somehwere else.. so why not just have everyone at perpetual justified war?

But that's the truth. The ultimate law is strength of conquest.

That's life, man. We don't have a static economy and we don't have a static national borders either.

 

[micrometers]

It is espeically stupid to call Israel a racist nation when almost 23% of its citizens are Arabs:


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html

Well, Arabs are discriminated against by Israeli society quite a bit. But that's just tribalism. Mexicans are mistreated by American society quite a bit also. Kurds were mistreated by Iraqis and Turks. It goes on and on. It's not unique to Israel.

 

[shadow9d9]

But that's the truth. The ultimate law is strength of conquest.

That's life, man. We don't have a static economy and we don't have a static national borders either.

At this point in the world, I do consider our borders static.

That isn't the truth, but it is the reality. The reality is a mess though because of Israel, isn't it?

Over 50 years of deaths, the US is more involved with the ME than ever, they hate us, they successfully have attacked us (9/11). Strength of conquest is not enough in the modern day when anyone could make their own bombs, fly anywhere in the world, communicate with anyone... Do you believe Israel's conquest to be absolute? No, it has been a dismal failure in that regard. They may temporarily have new land, but more people continue to die daily for it. Maybe a few 100 years ago it would have been absolute.

The conquest of Israel has had consequences and will continue to.

I speak out against Israel's past because it continues to affect us right now.

 

[cybrsage]

I'm sure the people who peacefully lived there and were slaughtered or forced off their land would have been much happier if they knew that it was all ok because the jews wanted the land for a while. Brilliant.

Irrelevant. Someone somewhere is always butthurt about something. You, for example, are currently butthurt that Israel exists.

Cannot please everyone, so no need to try.

So, the Romans kicked them out, and then 1000 years later they take it back. Under those requirements, pretty much any group could conquer any country. Groups have people , especially near europe, have at one point been somehwere else.. so why not just have everyone at perpetual justified war?

You are correct. If the British would have been weaker, they would not have helped beat the Ottoman Empire and thereby took control of the region. They then would not have been able to give it to the Israels to form their own nation with.

However, if the Ottomans would have been weaker...if the Arabs would have been weaker, if the Romans would have been weaker...if the Greeks would have been weaker...on and on.

Life is not a box of chocolates.

 

[cybrsage]

Well, Arabs are discriminated against by Israeli society quite a bit. But that's just tribalism. Mexicans are mistreated by American society quite a bit also. Kurds were mistreated by Iraqis and Turks. It goes on and on. It's not unique to Israel.

Agreed. But they have had the right to vote for a few decades now...something other Arabs are just now gaining.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

At this point in the world, I do consider our borders static.

That isn't the truth, but it is the reality. The reality is a mess though because of Israel, isn't it?

More likely it's an effect of the Ottoman Empire aligning with Germany in WWI.

Borders aren't static to this very day and it's not likely to change any time soon.

 

[cybrsage]

At this point in the world, I do consider our borders static.

That isn't the truth, but it is the reality. The reality is a mess though because of Israel, isn't it?

No, reality is a mess because of humans in general...not because of one nation.

Over 50 years of deaths, the US is more involved with the ME than ever, they hate us,

If it was not for the vital importance of oil, we would not be involved in the middle east at all. Israel is a sidebar to that.

The conquest of Israel has had consequences and will continue to.

Imagine how things would be if the Arabs had not tried to destroy Israel, but instead decided to live in peace with the new nation formed by the world power legally in control of that area.

I speak out against Israel's past because it continues to affect us right now.

Blame the Arabs...had they not attacked Israel when it was formed, things would be peaceful there now.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Why is the idea of Israel ok? Why is it ok when we support the conquering of foreign lands but evil when everyone else tries to do it?

Do you have any links to support your mis-statements???

 

[JEDIYoda]

There have been several articles lately saying that Israel might start a war with Iran, but Israel will be unable to finish the war.

The US would get pulled into the war to help stabilize the middle east.

Could you please link to those articles?
I have never read anything that even hints that Israel will start a full fledged war that it cannot finish...thanks for the links...

 

[JEDIYoda]

I'm sure the people who peacefully lived there and were slaughtered or forced off their land would have been much happier if they knew that it was all ok because the jews wanted the land for a while. Brilliant.

So, the Romans kicked them out, and then 1000 years later they take it back. Under those requirements, pretty much any group could conquer any country. Groups have people , especially near europe, have at one point been somehwere else.. so why not just have everyone at perpetual justified war?

Do you just blabber for the fun of it??

 

[JEDIYoda]

Because 100s of years prior, they lived there... it is ok to kill people and kick them off the land they are living on? That is a ridiculously slippery slope.

only in your mind is it slippery......

 

[JEDIYoda]

Native Americans don't have a land, do you support an attack by them? -- thats one of the goofiest assinine examples in all the world!!

They used the death of million of their own people so they could slaughter other people and conquer the holy land of 3 major religions.. and the deaths have been daily ever since.-- I agree with you!! The Palestinians need to stop this brutality and get a government that wants a lasting Peace!!

oh..really...

 

[JEDIYoda]

So, you just have to do the wrong thing and then wait a little while... and it'll just be "too late" to do anything... and so it is all legit now?

The reality is, a majority of the ME conflict with the US, including 9/11 is a direct result of our participation in Israel.. so we reap what we sow.--- more meaningless diatribe with no links to support his hyperbole

...lolol

 

[JEDIYoda]

At the time it absolutely was. If you ever live on a land and then leave, it is still yours? Absolutely ridiculous.

-- hahah thats the best you can do without proof or links....hahahaaa

 

[JEDIYoda]

Pakistan people lived in india for thousands of years. It is ok that they invade, right? -- you really know nothing about the partitioning of India,,,,or anything about that part of the world do you??
Ingnorance is very obvious.....lolol

Native americans were here for thousands of years. They should start attacking to get their land back?

Once living somwhere does nothing to support allowing the descendants to simply reconquer the territory. This is supposed to be a modern era, where we don't go around slaughtering and conquering others. The fact that the US supported it, and the fact that the jews used the deaths of millions as an opportunity to slaughter more, is absolutely despicable.

**ahem**