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I think my power supply is the culprit, how do I test it?

M

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Most of my posts on these forums in the past month or so have been about these issues:

- bad DIMM slots.. RMA'd that motherboard, this one works just fine.. until:
- SATA problems. HDs plugged into the nForce chipset SATA ports have data corruption.. I duplicate a large file on the HD, and its CRC doesn't match the original file.
- my ND-3550A DVD burner suddenly produce coasters 100% of the time.. on the verify stage (Nero), bad sectors come up. I plug an older ND-3500AG in, and it burns perfectly.

I'm thinking the power supply is putting out some crazy voltages which has toasted all of the above. Either that, or the CPU is doing something weird (but I doubt it). Is there some way I can test the voltages coming out of the molex & SATA power connectors? I REALLY need to troubleshoot this thing before I get any replacement parts.
 
I've got an Enermax Liberty 500W. Everest Home Edition will display PSU voltages?? Didn't know that.. I'll have to check that out.

EDIT: Bah.. they discontinued Home Edition. Figures..
 
I got some stats from my BIOS..

Northbridge: 1.22V
Southbridge: 1.52 - 1.55V (it was fluctuating)
ATX +12V (24-pin connector): 12.19V, 12.25V (it kept flipping between 12.19 and 12.25)
ATX +12V (4-pin connector): 12.19V, 12.25V
ATX +5V: 5.14V
ATX +3.3V: 3.39V
ATX 5VSB: 5.17V

Are these numbers OK?
 
Nope, only have one. Besides, if the power supply is corrupting hardware.. most of it is apparently screwed alreayd anyway, putting a known working one in there wouldn't be able to prove anything.
 
You can't really on software reads for voltages, you need to pick up a dmm. You can get one at radioshack or something for ~$15-20.

As for your opticals, I can't tell by your OP if that 35000a is new. Did that replace the 3500a in your rig? if it is new, you may want to try different discs. i have a nec-3500 and a 3540. both like different media. One likes -R and one likes +R. You may want to try some different discs before figuring the psu is killing your drives.

I assume your all memtest. prime stable?
 
To really test PSUs, you need dummy loads sufficient to stress each rail, a DMM and an O-scope. There has been a spate of bad caps lately in PSUs and on mobos that can wreak all sorts of havoc. You can check for those with a physical inspection of your caps for bulging tops or leaking - these physical symptoms show up pretty late in the failure cycle. To catch them early, you would likely need an O-scope to see the very brief failure events. There are other failure modes too such as excessive leakage (of waveshapes other than DC), etc. That will require the O-Scope to see. Or you could hook an 8-ohm speaker in series with an appropriate dummy load. If the output from the rail is pure DC, you should hear nothing thru the speaker - of course the leakage frequency could be too high to hear (even for dogs or gerbils). That's where the O-scope comes in.

For a basic voltage regulation test, you would just need a DMM and some dummy loads.

The ubiquitous, cheap PSU testers that run 10-15 bucks only give you a voltage present or voltage too low to register. Not much of a test, IMO - but perhaps better than nothing.

.bh.
 
OK, so now we're wandering into hardcore techie area.. but I need to. Everything else tests out fine. Either the PSU is damaging the components, or Abit keeps sending me bad motherboards, which isn't totally out of the question.

I need someone to recommend some decent quality (but affordable) DMMs and o-scopes. I also need someone to tell me exactly how this process works. If this equipment is gonna cost me $1000, forget it. But if I can spend a couple hundred, I'll do it.. I build enough PCs (at least one every few yrs) where I'll want this kind of diagnostic equipment around to reduce the hassle of RMA'ing the wrong parts.

Thanks.
 
You can get a decent DMM at Sears (craftsman) often on sale (was last week in fact) for around $12. (usually $20.) Bgmicro.com has a nicer one in the $40. range that can measure temp. as well. You may also want to buy a test lead kit (Oldaker PAK-5 or similar) along with it so you'll have grabbers, alligator clips and safety probes. Most DMMs come with just ordinary test probes. AFAIK, a basic O-scope (Oscilloscope) with basic probes costs several hundred dollars - haven't priced them in a long time. Probably cheaper to just go out and buy a top quality PSU instead - unless you plan to do tech for a living or just have lots of loose change 😉 .

I just went wandering for a minute and found a basic personal portable LCD scope on allelectronics.com for ~$160. Same one on eBay $147. BuyItNow shipped priority from an ebay store or $100. starting bid. I also saw some nice CRT models there with dual-trace - nice for real power measurements into reactive loads or Power Factor derivations.

If you follow the PSU threads around here at all, you should know the consensus on PSU brands/models.

.bh.
 
Yeah, I did my homework on PSUs before I built this system. Enermax Liberty 500W is rock solid. So.. I'm not totally convinced it's the culprit just yet. I'd sooner blame Abit's motherboard than Enermax. Maybe it's just a coincidence that my DVD burner decided to stop burning properly. I'll run a few more RAM tests. The PSU test is a last resort.
 
I'm reevaluating this situation again. Let me recap here:

- bought Abit AN8 32X deluxe SLI x16 motherboard.. lockups were occurring.. RAM tested bad, but it turned out to be the actual DIMM slots, not the RAM modules. RMA'd the board.
- got a replacement board. this time, the nForce4 SATA/IDE controller is bad.. bad CRCs while copying/moving data between devices. moving the HDs to a different SATA controller (SiliconImage) resolves the problem, but DVD burner still can't burn discs because it's using the PATA IDE port (nForce)

Does this sound like the way a power supply would screw with a system? Put the motherboard in, plug it in, boot up.. and maybe some voltage irregularity destroys some part of the motherboard? Or is it more likely that the past two Abit motherboards I've gotten just happen to be lemons?

PS: there's no way the CPU would be causing these problems, would it?
 
Ouch, that's gotta hurt (considering how sweet a X2 4400+ can be).

Didn't Prime95 error out on you, to show the problem was local to the CPU?
 
Nope.. Prime95 and Super PI are jokes. Both ran perfectly. Everyone thinks they're so great at determining if your RAM or CPU is bad. All it does is tell you whether your CPU can perform mathematical operations properly. It won't tell you your CPU's memory controller is faulty.
 
Originally posted by: MDesigner
Nope.. Prime95 and Super PI are jokes. Both ran perfectly. Everyone thinks they're so great at determining if your RAM or CPU is bad. All it does is tell you whether your CPU can perform mathematical operations properly. It won't tell you your CPU's memory controller is faulty.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
wow...a very nice thread with alot of intelligent conversation.
Wonder never cease.
Thast why I didn`t jump in.
I didn`t want to be acused of dragging down the intellect quotient.
 
I think my PSU is also dead. Computer froze on reboot after initilizing the IDE channels, then I turned it off, and now it wont turn back on...

Any ideas? Anyway to fool the psu into thinking the PC is turning on?
 
Originally posted by: integramodder
I think my PSU is also dead. Computer froze on reboot after initilizing the IDE channels, then I turned it off, and now it wont turn back on...

Any ideas? Anyway to fool the psu into thinking the PC is turning on?
Click to expand...

Make your own thread...
 
Originally posted by: MDesigner
Most of my posts on these forums in the past month or so have been about these issues:

- bad DIMM slots.. RMA'd that motherboard, this one works just fine.. until:
- SATA problems. HDs plugged into the nForce chipset SATA ports have data corruption.. I duplicate a large file on the HD, and its CRC doesn't match the original file.
- my ND-3550A DVD burner suddenly produce coasters 100% of the time.. on the verify stage (Nero), bad sectors come up. I plug an older ND-3500AG in, and it burns perfectly.
Click to expand...


SATA corruption was a problem with certain BIOS versions for the nf7s-v2, so it might also be the case with the an8. Try updating the bios and see what happens. Also, the EXT-P2P command in the BIOS might be an issue (default is usally 3.8us, try 30us, and if that doesn't help try 1ms).

There's no telling why your burner isn't working. Try to install it in a friend's system and see if it works. It might also have something to do with the ASPI layer. Personally, I can't burn cd's right now, and I've given up trying until an upcoming OS reinstall. Sometimes it just won't work.

Regarding testing the PSU, it's probally a good idea. PSU's are a huge culprit of many problems, but seeing as you have an enermax, I doubt being cheaply made is the problem. You can buy a digital multimeter (usually sears has sales once a month for $10, otherwise Radio shack has some around $20), and basically boot up your system and test the 5v/12v lines on a 4-pin molex connector (I don't remember which wire is which right now, but you could always check a modding guide).
 
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