I think it's absurd that people think Iraq=Vietnam

[LunarRay]

The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and the Wepons of Mass Destruction.... that is the Vietnam similarity... Lies to go to war...
Kennedy supported the overthrough of a government and Bush the same...
People died daily for years in both places...

One death or injury is one too many when the reason is based on a lie.. We were not attacked nor were we about to be.. We simply had an agenda and to further that agenda people have to die...

Freedom and Human Rights... For the dead it just don't matter much at all.. Dead in Vietnam or Iraq is Dead...

I suppose the Vietnam farmer and the Iraqi sheep herder were quite happy with their lot in life given they didn't know any other way... but we showed them Freedom... and we showed them Human Rights... They must really be thankful for that... not sure about the survivors... they may yet become thankful... for them it will be all over...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: goku
I just don't see how people can see how Iraq=vietnam..... 57,000 deaths in vietnam, 3,000 deaths in Iraq, there is no way in hell that is the same.

Just getting started. More deaths so far in first 3 years than Vietnam. Bush and other fearless leaders use same language as they did in vietnam.. Stay the course, hurting our image to withdrawl, country would side into chaos if we left (probably would.. but so what? Anything that weakens camp Islam is a good thing) Anyway those of us who are watching a re-run - more and more violence is guaranteed, it's a "no-brainer" until our helicopters are lifting the remainder of the American presence in Iraq off the embassy rooftop, just like Vietnam.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Beachboy
People were calling it a new Vietnam even before Saddam's statue came down.

Those people understood we no longer have the stomach for what an occupation takes to suceed. Namly scorched earth and mass civilian casulties until they comply and roll on thier own warriors. Way we fight today any occupation is doom to fail.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: loki8481
there's more to the comparison than the simple death count?

And what exactly is that comparison? The fact that the left is against the war? The fact that we have some crazy anti-war protesters? Or the fact that John Kerry is accusing American soldiers of awful acts?

How about it being divisive, a quagmire and a no win situation.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: goku
I just don't see how people can see how Iraq=vietnam..... 57,000 deaths in vietnam, 3,000 deaths in Iraq, there is no way in hell that is the same.

Oh, I don't know, the fact that it's a war we shouldn't be in, isn't going well, and has no end is sight comes to mind.

 

[imported_goku]

Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Your ignorance know no bounds.

In WWII we were fighting for our survival, the death tolls were reported (you think the public new nothing of the tolls from D Day or the Kamikazee strikes in the Pacific) There were dail blackouts, shortages of material anmd every day goods plus everybody knew someone who lost a family member and almost every family had a family member in the service.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Your ignorance know no bounds.

In WWII we were fighting for our survival, the death tolls were reported (you think the public new nothing of the tolls from D Day or the Kamikazee strikes in the Pacific) There were dail blackouts, shortages of material anmd every day goods plus everybody knew someone who lost a family member and almost every family had a family member in the service.

Well with the continued 'pussification' of america, it would appear that what I mention above would have happened. Just because a family member died in the war, doesn't mean they had a god damned clue as to what was going on. Sure they died and they can get all patriotic about it but they were clueless as to how horrifying war can be, but now that we have media 24/7, everybody gets to see and then they cry when they see what war is really like. Hey, thats like vietnam!

Iraq=vietnam in the sense of stupid hippy protesters and the whole 'bring our troops home' and screw the 'x' region, but isn't the same as I said in the OP in that things are going just as bad. Things are going much better than they ever were in the vietnam and people still complain. One other reason is that people are pissed is bush told the ppl that it woudln't take very long for the whole thing to end with us being out fairly quickly. if the war happened just as bush told it would happen, maybe even if he said there would be continuous casualties, people may have accepted it a lot better, they don't like the fact that he appears unprepared (which he may be/is).

 

[Jhhnn]

Gotta love it- Prof John claiming that most of Iraq is peaceful... it's just the places where people live that are in turmoil, with abductions and other violence occurring on a daily basis. Out in the desert, it's just as peaceful as it ever was...

And we've had elections, to establish a government that doesn't govern, merely take their cut off the top...

Progress? The only progress is in the profit margin of various US contractors in Iraq- it's a huge porkbarrel project for the military-industrial guys, a source of income for years to come, a dream come true...

Comparisons to Vietnam are quite apt in some ways. The headset that put us in that quagmire was discredited in the Democratic party, so the perps just switched horses, became the Neocons of today... It's the same arrogance, same song, different verse...

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Your ignorance know no bounds.

In WWII we were fighting for our survival, the death tolls were reported (you think the public new nothing of the tolls from D Day or the Kamikazee strikes in the Pacific) There were dail blackouts, shortages of material anmd every day goods plus everybody knew someone who lost a family member and almost every family had a family member in the service.

Well with the continued 'pussification' of america, it would appear that what I mention above would have happened. Just because a family member died in the war, doesn't mean they had a god damned clue as to what was going on.

OK let me stop you there. What makes you so sure they hadn't a "God Damned Clue"? What makes you think you have a clue? You don't believe that thousands of letters addressed to Mothers by the Dept of War after the battle of Iwo Jima gave them a clue to the horrors of war?

Sure they died and they can get all patriotic about it but they were clueless as to how horrifying war can be, but now that we have media 24/7, everybody gets to see and then they cry when they see what war is really like. Hey, thats like vietnam!

What do you know about Viet Nam, I doubt you were even alive when that war was going on.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Haha indeed. I'm glad you seem to think this is a big joke perpetrated by saturated liberal media bias. Get a clue lightweight, the fact that you can't acknowledge that things are going very badly over there just shows how incapable you are of any rational thought.

Since the rest of us are such pussies, when are you going to suit up and get over there and show them how it's done? I'm sure you'd love to go out on patrol everyday for the sole purpose of trying to draw fire, all the while having the neighborhood kids throw rocks at you. Or taking order from an Iraqi PM who is BFF with the militiamen who shoot and blow up your buddies.

So slap that ol' Support the Troops sticker on your SUV and have a hoot of a time.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Haha indeed. I'm glad you seem to think this is a big joke perpetrated by saturated liberal media bias. Get a clue lightweight, the fact that you can't acknowledge that things are going very badly over there just shows how incapable you are of any rational thought.

Since the rest of us are such pussies, when are you going to suit up and get over there and show them how it's done? I'm sure you'd love to go out on patrol everyday for the sole purpose of trying to draw fire, all the while having the neighborhood kids throw rocks at you. Or taking order from an Iraqi PM who is BFF with the militiamen who shoot and blow up your buddies.

So slap that ol' Support the Troops sticker on your SUV and have a hoot of a time.

This kid is a notorious troll over in OT, I wouldn't doubt he's posting this BS as just another troll attempt.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: goku
I just don't see how people can see how Iraq=vietnam..... 57,000 deaths in vietnam, 3,000 deaths in Iraq, there is no way in hell that is the same.

The comparison is that we will waste a lot of lifes and money and then leave things worse off then they were before we "helped" them.

 

[imported_Infidel]

Originally posted by: goku
I just don't see how people can see how Iraq=vietnam..... 57,000 deaths in vietnam, 3,000 deaths in Iraq, there is no way in hell that is the same.

Dude, 4 letters in Iraq, 7 letters in Vietnam, no way in hell that is the same!

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Your ignorance know no bounds.

In WWII we were fighting for our survival, the death tolls were reported (you think the public new nothing of the tolls from D Day or the Kamikazee strikes in the Pacific) There were dail blackouts, shortages of material anmd every day goods plus everybody knew someone who lost a family member and almost every family had a family member in the service.

Well with the continued 'pussification' of america, it would appear that what I mention above would have happened. Just because a family member died in the war, doesn't mean they had a god damned clue as to what was going on.

OK let me stop you there. What makes you so sure they hadn't a "God Damned Clue"? What makes you think you have a clue? You don't believe that thousands of letters addressed to Mothers by the Dept of War after the battle of Iwo Jima gave them a clue to the horrors of war?

Sure they died and they can get all patriotic about it but they were clueless as to how horrifying war can be, but now that we have media 24/7, everybody gets to see and then they cry when they see what war is really like. Hey, thats like vietnam!

What do you know about Viet Nam, I doubt you were even alive when that war was going on.

Wow. You really believe a letter and news media are the same? Are you thick headed? You realize that the soliders during WWII didn't say everything that happened while they were there to their mothers because they didn't want them to know how bad it really was.. Also I can't believe you think a letter can convey the same message as a television broadcast. :roll:

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Your ignorance know no bounds.

In WWII we were fighting for our survival, the death tolls were reported (you think the public new nothing of the tolls from D Day or the Kamikazee strikes in the Pacific) There were dail blackouts, shortages of material anmd every day goods plus everybody knew someone who lost a family member and almost every family had a family member in the service.

Well with the continued 'pussification' of america, it would appear that what I mention above would have happened. Just because a family member died in the war, doesn't mean they had a god damned clue as to what was going on.

OK let me stop you there. What makes you so sure they hadn't a "God Damned Clue"? What makes you think you have a clue? You don't believe that thousands of letters addressed to Mothers by the Dept of War after the battle of Iwo Jima gave them a clue to the horrors of war?

Sure they died and they can get all patriotic about it but they were clueless as to how horrifying war can be, but now that we have media 24/7, everybody gets to see and then they cry when they see what war is really like. Hey, thats like vietnam!

What do you know about Viet Nam, I doubt you were even alive when that war was going on.

Well considering that you're not much older than me, I doubt you have a clue as to what you're talking about either. The one difference that sets apart me and you is that I've already voiced my opinions to the generation that had to live through that crap, and guess what? They agree!

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Haha indeed. I'm glad you seem to think this is a big joke perpetrated by saturated liberal media bias. Get a clue lightweight, the fact that you can't acknowledge that things are going very badly over there just shows how incapable you are of any rational thought.

Since the rest of us are such pussies, when are you going to suit up and get over there and show them how it's done? I'm sure you'd love to go out on patrol everyday for the sole purpose of trying to draw fire, all the while having the neighborhood kids throw rocks at you. Or taking order from an Iraqi PM who is BFF with the militiamen who shoot and blow up your buddies.

So slap that ol' Support the Troops sticker on your SUV and have a hoot of a time.

The only ones who are truely bitching are the ones who aren't willing to scarifice their lives for this country. I'm too young to go into the military because I don't have the proper education that I would need in order to go. If I DO go into the military, I would go prepared, meaning I'd have a college education so that I could be doing something that I could actually PUT my skills towards. Funny, I'm probably the one of the few that is actually willing to join the military, but SMART PEOPLE join the military AFTER they've had their college education. If you think I'm stupid for saying this, well then you're either clueless, a moron, or you're trolling.

 

[imported_goku]

BTW, incase you guys didn't realize, the same ****** happened after WWII, you just didn't have a 247 media station giving 'updates' on the siutation. People these days are so influenced by the media that they really believe that all of Iraq is just as insane as depicted on TV when it's really only certain areas.. Look, we all know war is bad but with war, casualties are practically synonomous with war, it's a fact.

 

[Pens1566]

Of course they're different, George Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Of course they're different, George Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

LOL. hahaha.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Haha indeed. I'm glad you seem to think this is a big joke perpetrated by saturated liberal media bias. Get a clue lightweight, the fact that you can't acknowledge that things are going very badly over there just shows how incapable you are of any rational thought.

Since the rest of us are such pussies, when are you going to suit up and get over there and show them how it's done? I'm sure you'd love to go out on patrol everyday for the sole purpose of trying to draw fire, all the while having the neighborhood kids throw rocks at you. Or taking order from an Iraqi PM who is BFF with the militiamen who shoot and blow up your buddies.

So slap that ol' Support the Troops sticker on your SUV and have a hoot of a time.

The only ones who are truely bitching are the ones who aren't willing to scarifice their lives for this country. I'm too young to go into the military because I don't have the proper education that I would need in order to go. If I DO go into the military, I would go prepared, meaning I'd have a college education so that I could be doing something that I could actually PUT my skills towards. Funny, I'm probably the one of the few that is actually willing to join the military, but SMART PEOPLE join the military AFTER they've had their college education. If you think I'm stupid for saying this, well then you're either clueless, a moron, or you're trolling.

SMART PEOPLE do not join the military. Patriotic or desperate people do. SMART PEOPLE use their college education to earn money and not to kill.

You should be banned for even having the idea that the Iraqi conflict is on the same level as WW2. The US has almost succeeded in allowing Iraq to become a puppet of Iran.

 

[LegendKiller]

Goku, are you a complete tool?

The measure of how a war is perpetrated, carried out, and resolved has nothing to do with body counts. Even if it did, casualty figures you quote do not include "walking wounded". As a % of deployed troops and of our military at large, Iraq has a higher concentration of casualties.

The lower number of actual deaths can be attributed to the fact that dying soldiers are in the city, our medical technology is *MUCH* better, and our soldier protection is multiples of times greater. Personal armor took such a massive leap from the 1960's that to even compare them is stupidity. What could barely stop a 9mm and was too bulky now can stop an AK-47 with minimal additional strain.

However, that aside, the way we got to the war and how the politicians are carrying out the war are very similar. Both were justified by fear. Both were controlled by politicians. Both were continued by fear and both ignored that the victory conditions were lacking. Furthermore, both ignored basic military doctrine that has been known for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

The media isn't sensationalizing anything. The reality of the matter is that Iraq is a big sucking gaping chest wound that the politicians are slapping 1" pieces of duct tape over to cure. They f'd up from the beginning and shot us in the chest to justify a war and now they are trying to keep it going by slowing, but not stopping the bleeding.

However, even that is failing.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: goku
Hahaha, you guys make it look like the war is going terribly, it's not going terribly, it's just a stupid media event that is making it seem really bad. The things I've seen that have gone wrong are, the money that has been spent, the total media coverage, and them not allowing our troops to use their own armor, and few other things. Look, if we had the media coverage during WWII like we do today, do you guys really believe that we could have won the war? We would have pussied out and negotiated way before entering the war because of the huge death count in europe.

Haha indeed. I'm glad you seem to think this is a big joke perpetrated by saturated liberal media bias. Get a clue lightweight, the fact that you can't acknowledge that things are going very badly over there just shows how incapable you are of any rational thought.

Since the rest of us are such pussies, when are you going to suit up and get over there and show them how it's done? I'm sure you'd love to go out on patrol everyday for the sole purpose of trying to draw fire, all the while having the neighborhood kids throw rocks at you. Or taking order from an Iraqi PM who is BFF with the militiamen who shoot and blow up your buddies.

So slap that ol' Support the Troops sticker on your SUV and have a hoot of a time.

The only ones who are truely bitching are the ones who aren't willing to scarifice their lives for this country. I'm too young to go into the military because I don't have the proper education that I would need in order to go. If I DO go into the military, I would go prepared, meaning I'd have a college education so that I could be doing something that I could actually PUT my skills towards. Funny, I'm probably the one of the few that is actually willing to join the military, but SMART PEOPLE join the military AFTER they've had their college education. If you think I'm stupid for saying this, well then you're either clueless, a moron, or you're trolling.

Well then I hope your ill-formed and ignorant opinions are just the result of you being wet behind the ears. There are plenty of malcontents who are in Iraq right now wondering what the hell they are doing over there.

FYI the vast majority of people don't join after they've completed college, most do it before as a means of paying for college.

Come back and talk to us after you've completed your education, you won't be joining the military as a specialist making 24k a year, you will be wanting to go into the private sector to make twice that much. That's what a BS/BA degree gets you when joining the Army, a rank of specialist.

Also, I haven't called you stupid, you are however naive and just flat out wrong about everything you've posted in this thread.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: goku
BTW, incase you guys didn't realize, the same ****** happened after WWII, you just didn't have a 247 media station giving 'updates' on the siutation. People these days are so influenced by the media that they really believe that all of Iraq is just as insane as depicted on TV when it's really only certain areas.. Look, we all know war is bad but with war, casualties are practically synonomous with war, it's a fact.

Like Anbar province and Baghdad? That represents a very sizable portion of the population. The same thing did not happen in WWII, again get educated.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: goku
BTW, incase you guys didn't realize, the same ****** happened after WWII, you just didn't have a 247 media station giving 'updates' on the siutation. People these days are so influenced by the media that they really believe that all of Iraq is just as insane as depicted on TV when it's really only certain areas.. Look, we all know war is bad but with war, casualties are practically synonomous with war, it's a fact.

Like Anbar province and Baghdad? That represents a very sizable portion of the population. The same thing did not happen in WWII, again get educated.

I think that this is a common misconception. While Germany did have Werewolf after the war, it was poorly funded and organized. It only accomplished minor disruptions, no major roadside bombs, explosions, or sabotage. It dissolved into the background within 6 months.

Japan was much different. The population was more or less utterly defeated.

WW2 is so different from Iraq or Vietnam that anybody who draws comparisons is just plain stupid.