i think im gonna go with a venice 3000+

[MrDudeMan]

will the fact that the 3000+ is only 1.8ghz be a step down from my p4 2.53ghz processor? i know that sounds stupid, but it seems counter-intuitive that a slower cycling processor can compute more raw data per clock cycle.

i am not opposed to overclocking as long as i can do it with air and it will be stable and last a long time (at least 3 years).

im thinking about getting a DFI lan party ultra-D...if that doesnt fit this processor, please let me know. i just want something "future proof" that i can eventually throw a dual core in when the price is right.

my budget is semi-tight, so i cant really afford to spend much more, but if the 3000+ sucks ill go higher. i just need this computer to be speedy opening programs, games, and general computer use. my 2.53 is pretty decent on an ATA100 drive...im getting a 74gb raptor and whatever processor you guys recommend, so hopefully it will be better.

thanks

 

[peleejosh]

the 3000+ is a ok proc. it is roughly equal to a 3.0 p4. although, it is better in games.
As far as a speedy system goes:
Opening programs has more to do with you ram and hard drive speed.
For games and word adn internet, so on, the 3000+ will be fine.
The dfi board is great.
you should be able to overclock the 3000+ to at least 2.4 on decent air cooling.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: peleejosh
the 3000+ is a ok proc. it is roughly equal to a 3.0 p4. although, it is better in games.
As far as a speedy system goes:
Opening programs has more to do with you ram and hard drive speed.
For games and word adn internet, so on, the 3000+ will be fine.
The dfi board is great.
you should be able to overclock the 3000+ to at least 2.4 on decent air cooling.

QFT. IMO, the hard drive is what makes opening general use programs feel slow. If you can get raided raptors. I've actually had the chance to try them and they work way better than my IDE Hd . Just feels snappier.

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: peleejosh
the 3000+ is a ok proc. it is roughly equal to a 3.0 p4. although, it is better in games.
As far as a speedy system goes:
Opening programs has more to do with you ram and hard drive speed.
For games and word adn internet, so on, the 3000+ will be fine.
The dfi board is great.
you should be able to overclock the 3000+ to at least 2.4 on decent air cooling.

QFT. IMO, the hard drive is what makes opening general use programs feel slow. If you can get raided raptors. I've actually had the chance to try them and they work way better than my IDE Hd . Just feels snappier.

did you find them noisey?

i have one on its own and it is well noisey :|

thinking of getting a 7200.9 when they come out, i like my quietness

 

[MrDudeMan]

the hard drive speed should be fast with a raptor and ill try to get decent ram, but ill probably end up going with valueram since i am on a budget here. ill be getting 1gb, hopefully in a single stick so i can upgrade to 2gb later in dual channel, but i might go with 2x 512.

anyway, at 2.4ghz, will everything else be running in spec? is that increase in speed worth it? my airflow should be good enough to handle that. will the retail HSF be good enough to oc?

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: peleejosh
the 3000+ is a ok proc. it is roughly equal to a 3.0 p4. although, it is better in games.
As far as a speedy system goes:
Opening programs has more to do with you ram and hard drive speed.
For games and word adn internet, so on, the 3000+ will be fine.
The dfi board is great.
you should be able to overclock the 3000+ to at least 2.4 on decent air cooling.

QFT. IMO, the hard drive is what makes opening general use programs feel slow. If you can get raided raptors. I've actually had the chance to try them and they work way better than my IDE Hd . Just feels snappier.

did you find them noisey?

i have one on its own and it is well noisey :|

thinking of getting a 7200.9 when they come out, i like my quietness

i didnt actually think the raptor was that loud...its not bad at all IMO. as long as you install the rubber grommet thingies...

im more interested in speed than noise though. i want the computer to be fast for general use.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: peleejosh
the 3000+ is a ok proc. it is roughly equal to a 3.0 p4. although, it is better in games.
As far as a speedy system goes:
Opening programs has more to do with you ram and hard drive speed.
For games and word adn internet, so on, the 3000+ will be fine.
The dfi board is great.
you should be able to overclock the 3000+ to at least 2.4 on decent air cooling.

QFT. IMO, the hard drive is what makes opening general use programs feel slow. If you can get raided raptors. I've actually had the chance to try them and they work way better than my IDE Hd . Just feels snappier.

did you find them noisey?

i have one on its own and it is well noisey :|

thinking of getting a 7200.9 when they come out, i like my quietness

Well, I don't know what the case was, but the case was in a desk, and the door was shut, so I could only hear a whimper. Just about as loud as a laptop fan .

 

[MrDudeMan]

so for what im looking to do, is the venice a good choice?

 

[n7]

Yes. Venice is the best value choice out there, if you cannot afford an X2 3800+.

Don't be suckered into believing clockspeed is an indicator of performance.
I mean, damn, you've been here 4 years! You know better.

Also, one thing i love to ask Intel clockspeed fanbois is why they think Intel is dropping Netburst altogether for a variant of the their Pentium-M in their future desktop CPUs.
Of course, they never have an answer, since Intel will soon be going with all "slower" CPUs like AMD, & OMG, the h0rr0r. Suddenly their high-clocked P4s will be pwned by "slow" CPUs from Intel.

Sorry for the little rant, sometimes i just get sick of moronic customers @ work who insist on buying P4s "cause they're faster" :roll:

/rant over

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: n7
Yes. Venice is the best value choice out there, if you cannot afford an X2 3800+.

Don't be suckered into believing clockspeed is an indicator of performance.
I mean, damn, you've been here 4 years! You know better.

Also, one thing i love to ask Intel clockspeed fanbois is why they think Intel is dropping Netburst altogether for a variant of the their Pentium-M in their future desktop CPUs.
Of course, they never have an answer, since Intel will soon be going with all "slower" CPUs like AMD, & OMG, the h0rr0r. Suddenly their high-clocked P4s will be pwned by "slow" CPUs from Intel.

Sorry for the little rant, sometimes i just get sick of moronic customers @ work who insist on buying P4s "cause they're faster" :roll:

/rant over

i didnt actually think that. i just wanted someone to give me a reason why. im actually a computer engineering major and know a substantial amount about microprocessors...that comment was also tossed in to stir up some flames

it is interesting though that the AMD processors can actually do more calculations and "work" per cycle at a much slower clock speed and still be "faster". they really did it right this time around, which is why ive chosen to shy away from the P4.


so get a venice 3000+ and OC it? what speed ram will accompany that assuming i can get at least ~2.4ghz? PC3700?

 

[MrDudeMan]

bump for answer

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
bump for answer

Heck even some good PC3200/DDR400 ram, thats what I bought with my venice.....it got me to 2.4 in a snap, just make sure you get a good HDD

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146883

HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152022

 

[johnnqq]

you've been here for almost 6 years. you should know more about this stuff than most other people here!

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: johnnqq
you've been here for almost 6 years. you should know more about this stuff than most other people here!

i do know a lot about hardware, but i dont know about all of the brand new stuff. i have my head buried in books all day for the last 2 years. i am trying to get back into the enthusiasts market but it takes time. i need to have the opinions of you guys since you are already there.

 

[aigomorla]

<3 Raid 5 8 sec windows loadup time incase ur wondering

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
so get a venice 3000+ and OC it? what speed ram will accompany that assuming i can get at least ~2.4ghz? PC3700?

You don't need to buy overly high end RAM.

With A64s, most everyone uses a divider, meaning they run their RAM at a fraction of the HTT (akin to FSB) speed.

Let's say you buy some good DDR400 RAM (which is all you need).

You run your CPU @ 9*280 for 2520 MHz.
You could then run a 3/4 divider, which would put your RAM at 210, or DDR420, something most decent DDR400 could do.
If you get higher, you could then run it at the 2/3 divider, & etc.

With A64s, running the RAM at a lower speed than the HTT barely affects performance, so generally, that's the way to go.

 

[Bull Dog]

I've posted this before, and I'll post it again

Originally posted by: Bull Dog

Originally posted by: Bull Dog

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Option 2 for sure. If you want a 1:1 divider, then sell your old memory and get some OCZ Gold Edition 2GB Kit. You'll run 4 Mhz slower but that will let you run 1:1. Even if you didn't get more memory, Option 2 is the best way to go.

I'm sorry but this *REALLY* bugs me. Let me make this real clear.

There is no such thing as running your memory at 1:1 timings with A64's
You memory is ALWAYS running A-sync.

Ram speed is baised off of a divider of the CPU speed.

My understanding outlined below.
A 3500+ runs at 2200Mhz.
The base HTT (hyper transport) speed is 200mhz and the bus runs a 5x multi on top of that, so one gets 1000mhz for the final HTT speed.

The CPU speed is also based on the base HTT speed. The 3500+ runs at 200x11 or 2200mhz.

The Ram speed is based on the speed of the CPU not the speed of the HTT bus. In the case of the 3500+, that translates to 2200/11 = 200mhz.

Now lets say you lowered the multiplier of the CPU to 10.5x The CPU would now be running at 2100mhz. Since the on-die memory controller doesn't support half multipliers you'll keep using the 11x divider 2100/11 = 190.9 mhz

Do you see how the only relationship seeming to be 1:1 is the fact that @ stock speeds the CPU and Memory use the same multi/divider?

1800/09 = 200mhz
2000/10 = 200mhz
2200/11 = 200mhz
2400/12 = 200mhz
2600/13 = 200mhz
2800/14 = 200mhz

 

[The Linuxator]

Check my specs in my sig that's what an AMD 64 was able to achieve with nothing but air cooling, and yes the AMD 64 will pwn the P4 3.0 ghz in any apps once it's OC to the right speed

 

[Shenkoa]

Are you looking to overclock the venice?

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Shenkoa
Are you looking to overclock the venice?

id like to overclock it to at least a 3200+, but 3500+ would be better.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: Shenkoa
Are you looking to overclock the venice?

id like to overclock it to at least a 3200+, but 3500+ would be better.

I know alot of ppl who are sucessfull at OCing the 3000+ to 2.3-2.4 ghz with the stock cooler, so it's pretty much a painless process IMHO the Venice 3000+ is the best selling processors all over the world it's cheap , it OC's insanely and it gets the job done

 

[Shenkoa]

3200+ is better for overclocking because it has a 10X multi. I put a 3000+ venice in my mobo and I could not get no where near 2.6-2.7 GHz.

Did you get my recent PM's Bigsm00th?

 

[interchange]

didnt actually think that. i just wanted someone to give me a reason why. im actually a computer engineering major and know a substantial amount about microprocessors...that comment was also tossed in to stir up some flames

it is interesting though that the AMD processors can actually do more calculations and "work" per cycle at a much slower clock speed and still be "faster". they really did it right this time around, which is why ive chosen to shy away from the P4.


so get a venice 3000+ and OC it? what speed ram will accompany that assuming i can get at least ~2.4ghz? PC3700?

There are a number of reasons why a chip can be faster at a slower clock speed.

First and foremost is keeping those pipelines full. If you encounter a mispredicted branch, then you have to stall processing for some time. A longer pipeline will have a faster clock but will have a larger penalty in clocks for stalling.

Second is number of execution units. Modern processors are superscalar in that they can operate on multiple instructions at the same time.

Another is cache size and latency.

Another is the efficiency of the memory bus.

I don't know the specifics of their processor designs other than that intel netburst utilizes a very deep pipeline, but these are just a few things to chew on. In modern microprocessor design, there are just way too many factors to consider for clock speed to be that much of a concern. The only reason why we put emphasis on clock speed is that it's generally a scalar value in that overclocking by 10% yields 10% more processor performance.


About the RAM: There's no need to buy better than DDR400 when overclocking because of the use of RAM clock dividers.

Also, a 10x multiplier is not necessarily useful because of memory dividers as well. Motheroards will do over 300HTT which is a very hefty overclock to begin with.