I think im done!

[Jwyatt]

Heres the deal. I picked up an MSI845ARU a few weeks ago with a P4 1.6a.
Installed them and OCed the hell out of it.
heres my results after several days of testing. The timings for the ram automatically resets on this friggin board to the slowest possible when you go over 140fsb! SCUM SUCKERZ. There are no PCI/AGP devider options to be found. So im failry sure at 160fsb which it runs flawlessly im pushing the pci/agp to 40/80.
Not wanting to streatch the pci that high i started looking for boards to let me calm it down some. I found the Gigabyte 8IRXP to be my next mistake! I dont have results with this board because it wont do 160 stable....GRR
Thinking maybe its my ram I ordered a stick of corsiar ddr PC3000 512mb stick. Well the MSI board likes it better than my crucial pc2100, but the Gigabyte still wont do more than 160 reliable. DAMNIT
Keeping looking I find the THug getting great results out of the ASUS P4B266C. I went and bought a P4B266 (not the c) I have it running with turbo1 and the ddr volts upped to step 2. Whatever the hell that is. Its not as stable as the friggin MSI board! And wont boot at 166fsb at all. The MSI would do that with the stock cooling, but wouldnt complete a 3dmark to save my life.

So my delima is. Keep running the MSi board with the PCi out of spec so much? Keep trying to find a board that will run as high as my MSI, but with the deviders needed? Hell Im gonna hold on to the MSI and sell/return these other MBs.

/rant off

 

[THUGSROOK]

why up the DDR voltage?

 

[pulse8]

If you want to get around the board resetting the ratio when you up to 140, set the voltage you need and 100Mhz in the bios. Then get a program called CPUFSB.

Load Windows and set it to the FSB of your choice. It won't reset the ratio to 1:1 if you do it this way. I had my system at 145Mhz in the bios and 290Mhz memory and was getting ~2000MB/s Sandra Memory scores. When I did this little trick, that would only let me get up to 141 (I'm running Mushkin Basic PC2100), I would get ~2700MB/s memory bandwidth scores in Sandra.

I hope this helps somewhat. My board has been completely stable with doing this. I haven't had any problems at all and have been able to run Prime95 for 10+ hours this way.

Good luck!

David

 

[Jwyatt]

Thug It wont boot without the ddr upped. Thats using the corsiar! It will boot if I up it one notch, but i gave it a little extra.

pulse8 ill give that a try. Thanks for the link.

 

[oldfart]

Ditch the MSI
Get an EPOX 4BDA or 4BDA2+ if you want RAID.
3:4 mem ratio @ ANY FSB (only 845 that can do this)
1.4 - 1.85 Vcore
1.5, 2.0, 2.5 CAS timing
PCI/AGP 33/66 Lock feature.
Super stable, fast.

I run mine 150 FSB, 2.4 GHz, DDR400. I have an "average CPU" Needs 1.675 Vcore bios setting, 1.65 MBM5 reading to do 2.4.

 

[Jwyatt]

Grr, not another one I need to get. Oh... I might go for it. I can return all but the MSI board. That I will include in a system build for someone in the next few weeks.

 

[Buz2b]

Seems a bit silly. With all the money you have tied up in MB's and RAM, you could have easily afforded a faster (2.2 GHz) CPU. With only a slight overclock of that you would be smokin'! Anyway, just a couple of cents worth.

 

[oldfart]

<< Seems a bit silly. With all the money you have tied up in MB's and RAM, you could have easily afforded a faster (2.2 GHz) CPU. With only a slight overclock of that you would be smokin'! Anyway, just a couple of cents worth. >>


Not really, he can trade/sell the MSI, get a better board (EPOX) for ~ the same $. A 2.2 @ 2.2 will be much more $$ and also SLOWER than a 1.6A @ 2.2. The latter is running on a faster FSB, faster DDR Speed. You have to choose your components carefully.

 

[Buz2b]

<< You have to choose your components carefully. >>

What I was referring to was that after the MSI board he bought the Gigabyte 8IRXP, the ASUS P4B266C AND a 512mb stick of Corsiar PC3000. Add those three together! Then consider that I said to (slightly) overclock the 2.2. That would give you a higher FSB and I don't think an overclocked 1.6 would be faster than an overclocked 2.2. Do you??
Hey, don't get me wrong. I have had my similar "can't see the forest for the trees" episodes too. It's fun damnit! Just last week I bought a 20x10x40 (a "hot deal" at Fry's) CDRW to upgrade my older 12x10x32 unit. Three days later there was a "hot deal" on a 32x12x40 so I bought that too. I never did take back the 20x unit either. So now I have 3 CDRW's; two of which have just joined my "parts" box. Psssst, don't tell my wife!

 

[oldfart]

<< I don't think an overclocked 1.6 would be faster than an overclocked 2.2. Do you?? >>


Yes, definately. Even a real basic overclock on a 1.6 will get you to a 133 - 140 FSB. A 2.2 @ 2.4 GHz is only 440 FSB, DDR220 or DDR300 with a 3:4 mem ratio. A 1.6 @ 2.4 is a 600 FSB DDR355 or DDR400 with a 3:4 ratio. That makes a big difference. Yeah, its a shame he has been through so many setups without finding the best one. The EPOX4BDA/1.6A/Samsung PC2700 combo is a great setup.

 

[Regalk]

Still considering the "quality" of the boards he has gone through then he must be doing something wrong. It is better he stay with one setup and then let us walk him through that setup. Tha Asus board should have been fine - there is a point where it is plain nonsense to keep going like he does!

 

[Buz2b]

Well, call me dense, (Hey Buz2b........YOUR DENSE!), but I just don't see how an overclocked 1.6 running @ say 2.2-2.4 would be faster than a 2.2 overclocked somewhere well above that. Gives me a headache; where's my pills?

 

[oldfart]

<< but I just don't see how an overclocked 1.6 running @ say 2.2-2.4 would be faster than a 2.2 overclocked somewhere well above that. Gives me a headache; where's my pills? >>


Pretty simple really. If you have 2 CPU's operating at the same frequency, the one with the higher FSB/mem speed will be faster. Since the 1.6 has a 16x multiplier, and the 2.2 has a 22x multiplier, the 1.6A will have a higher FSB/mem speed. The 1.6 @ 2.4 was just an example. There are people who have got 1.6's much higher, even as high as 2.7 GHz. It is luck of the draw. You may get a great overclocker, you may not. That holds true for any of them.


<< That Asus board should have been fine >>


Agree. The ASUS P4B266 is a good board.

 

[Jwyatt]

<< Tha Asus board should have been fine - there is a point where it is plain nonsense to keep going like he does! >>

I agree 100%, but its not nearly as stable as the MSI board is. I just dont want to run the pci/agp that high. Thats the ONLY reason i have been in the search.

I plan to return all except the msi, which i already have a system to build for a customer with that board.

I just cant understand why in the heck the asus or gigabyte wont run at the speeds my msi will! The giga was a joke IMO.

I could have bought a 2.2 with the money I have sunk into these other boards and the ram, but as olefart said a 1.6@2.6 will blow the doors off a 2.2@2.6! Plus the fact the 2 boards will go back. im keeping the corsiar and have plans to include the crucial ram in a system build for someone else.

Before I order the epox anyone wanna tell me how to make the asus board work@160 or 166?

 

[Buz2b]

<< Before I order the epox anyone wanna tell me how to make the asus board work@160 or 166? >>

Have you tried looking around or asking at the AMD MB-ASUS forum? There is a good deal of knowledge there. Not that there isn't a good deal here too but from my humble experience they have provided an excellent knowledge base in the past.

 

[Jwyatt]

I havnt looked there on the p4b266, but have lurked when i was looking for some info on the k7t266 pro i use. It being an amd forum im not so sure people would answer to many questions about an intel board, but i will look and see if anyone has tried

 

[Buz2b]

<< not so sure people would answer to many questions about an intel board >>

Ya know, I think you got me there. In fact I remember someone asking an Intel question and catching some flack for it. My bad. I forgot the AMD part of the AMD MB forum. However, if it were me, I'd answer and wouldn't care less. Isn't that the way it should be?? Ah well, in a perfect world. Good luck anyway.

 

[oldfart]

There is also asusboards.com

 

[Jwyatt]

Thanks Oldfart. Lots of info there. Enough info that makes me wanna try the epox

 

[THUGSROOK]

quite a few ppl arent getting the same overclocking results on the other Asus P4B266 boards.
it seems as tho the P4B266-C is different somehow - prolly cause is has nothing onboard and only 2 Dimm slots.

 

[Barrei]

Exactly how high of a fsb are you looking for Jwyatt ? 160 is actually extremely good , probably less then 2% of O/Cer's can achieve that .

 

[Jwyatt]

160 is fine, but the biggest thing im looking for is to get the pci/agp down to default or below 40/80. Also would like the ram timings to get back to where they should be at 2-2-2-5 instead the MSI board takes anything above 140 to 2.5-3-3-7. I think this takes its toll on both the raid speeds and the benchmark speeds.
I know its speeds that will not be missed, bucause this system blows away most others, but its the benchies thats got me hooked. I tell my customers when selling them a system that the only difference you'll see when going from a brand X MB to a brand Y is in sythetic benchmarks. I just cant seem to convince myself of that

If you look at the tests I've done you will notice above 140 fsb the raid score takes a big dive and gets worse as I increased the fsb I think this is due to both the memory timiings as well as the pci overclocking. no settings were changed in the bios except for the fsb, but you will notice in the cpuID section that the ram timings were set back to default(slow).

I eventually got the geforce4 4600 to get a 12183 in 3dmark 2k1se after tweaking the system some.

 

[Barrei]

I see, well your ddr at cas2.5 and 160fsb would put you at 400mhz if your using pc2700 or higher that should be okay and if it's rated at cas2.0 that would be 320 mhz so as long as your pci bus stays at 40 or under or you probably won't damage anything long term but if you can't lock your pci/agp bus at default or adjust them to stay under 40/80 there is a chance of damage long term.buy the way your 3dmark score is really high , congrats.

 

[Jwyatt]

Thanks on the 3d mark scores. I just got a corsiar ddr3000 cas2 512mb chip. Will run stable@166 right now on the msi board, but again @ cas 2.5-3-3-7. I have the gigabyte packaged up ready to ship back, and havnt tried it on the asus board yet.
I returned the 4600 because of the $400 price tag. I ended up getting a radeon 8500 for 215. This was a couple weeks ago and the prices are coming down to where I bought mine at.