I think i might have hit a wall in overclocking!

[TurtleCrusher]

Intel Core2 Quad 8200 2330Mhz overclocked to 2730mhz (390x7)
Arctic Freezer Pro 7
Gigabyte EP45-DS3L ATX Motherboard
4GB (2X2GB) Patriot DDR2 PC6400 5-5-5-12 with heatspreaders
Antec Power Trio 550w (three 18amp 12V rails, 42amps max)
Sapphire Radeon 3850 256-bit 512mb DDR3
Antec P180 case with 3 standard tri-cool fans.

So, i just slapped in this new HSF (ARCTIC) with AS5 applied and at my current speed it get 46-47-50-47C idle and 55-57-60-57 at full load. I have my RAM locked at 5-5-5-12 and its currently matched with my FSB at 390mhz. My voltage is one setting away from 1.2V (1.95ish) and i've locked my PCI-Exp bus at 100mhz.

So, when i try to get 400x7 with 1.2V i can boot into windows, then when i run Prime 95 it immediately crashes when i begin the torture test. I heard that anything above 1.2V will really degrade your processor, so i'm reluctant to go higher. Should i just accept the overclock i have (nearly comparable to a Q6600 at 3GHZ) and be done? I know this chip isn't popular for overclocking at all, but i've been taking my chances. I'm overclocking with safety and longevity in mind.

Is it safe to go forward? Should i loosen my ram timings? Raise my voltage?

Main Edit:

Boosting MCH voltage just results in a crash at stock settings. When set to auto we're doing just fine.

I had a friend of mine come over (oc'ed his E8400 to 4.15ghz on nearly the same Gigabyte board) and it seems like raising voltages (besides CPU) creates huge instabilities. When almost everything is set to auto (besides mem timings/fsb) the overclock is butter to 2.75ghz. Anything else and its not stable. I guess i have a 2.75ghz Q8200. I'm happy enough with an almost 20% overclock on a quad core.

The only way i got to 2.8ghz nearly stable (only 1 hour 15mins prime stable) is by upping my volltage one little setting below 1.4V, which was going to kill it. The chip needs huge voltage after 393FSB. I tried escaping FSB holes by loosening my ram timings to 6-6-6-13 and upping my voltage to around 1.35V. I tried 415fbs and it failed to post, just blipped a few times and reverted to stock settings, just like the crash i got from raising NB values.

Synthetically i have exactly 11Ghz with 4mb of L2 cache. That's power compared to my old 939 X2 4200+ and 3500+. I think this is the max i really expected out of this. Most people overclock their Q6600 25% to 30ghz and call it good. Overclocking the Q8200 20% is pretty much the same thing. The overclock might seem to be novice but then i have to remember I'm working with such a low multiplier. Hopefully people keep this in mind when then buy this chip to overclock with. Not that ANYBODY on Hardforums has submitted an overclock on this. Most applications run a teeny bit better at stock setting (Q8200) because of the 1333 FSB, and that performance increase is carried along the way the higher the overclock is. (FSB: 1572)

I dont regret buying this processor at all. I remember when i purchased it i only wanted 2.5-2.6ghz out of it, and this has become more then enough. Since a Core2 Quad at these speeds rip though nearly every game there is, i'm not worried about its longevity. Multi-threading on quad cores hasn't really been perfected yet by game developers. When it does, this quad will still offer amazing performance just like my X2 4200+ did for so long at stock settings.

If you can get this chip at a low price Sub $170, get it. Its well worth the $$ i spent on it.

 

[Dadofamunky]

1) Set the voltage to 1.3V. Also check and disable the Voltage Damper/Vdroop.
2) Check to ensure your HSF is FIRMLY on. But your temps are fine, I get similar results. I like using a fan controller to max out my HSF 120mm fan speed. (my idle temps are somewhat lower, which might be expected since I have the E8600)

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Well, i raised the voltage to 1.25V just to be on the safe side, and it wouldn't even post to windows.

Also, i dont know where those settings are for the Voltage Damper/Vdroop, and i really don't know what they do!

One last thing, i set my voltage back to 1.185V and back to the frequency i have listed and it shows up as 1.120V in CPUz. Here is my validation.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=480442

EDIT: LOL! Yes i meant 1.185 rather than 1.85V. I'd have a dead chip in no time.

 

[error8]

Anything above 1.2 V will degrade your cpu? Where the hell did you heard that? Is more like, anything above 1.36 V MIGHT degrade your cpu.

You haven't read the overclocking sticky and doing that would surely have helped you touch higher frequency. You have to raise the North Bridge voltage ( MCH ), VTT voltage and probably the south bridge voltage as well. But read that sticky, so you wont kill your cpu or motherboard with too much of an increase. With some careful tweaking, you could go at 3.2 ghz or a bit higher on this cpu, if you can keep the temps down as well. Since it has that low multiplier ( 7x if I'm not mistaken ) your motherboard and ram feels the most stress, since they have to work at very high FSB and mem speed to get the cpu to clock higher.

 

[dug777]

Ugh, I'll cuddle my Q6600 that does 3Ghz at stock vcore I haven't at this stage investigated how much further I could push it.

I assume you meant 1.185 when you typed 1.85, that would indeed ah heck up your CPU

I understood up to about 1.4 was safe, but that may be for my 65nm Kentsfield.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Maybe i really did hit a wall. I raised my CPU voltage to 1.25, 1.28, 1.30, 1.31, 1.33, 1.35 and every time it froze going into windows at 400x7 2800mhz.

I guess 2.73ghz is really where my chips stands

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
Maybe i really did hit a wall. I raised my CPU voltage to 1.25, 1.28, 1.30, 1.31, 1.33, 1.35 and every time it froze going into windows at 400x7 2800mhz.

I guess 2.73ghz is really where my chips stands

I understand there are all sorts of other things you should tweak before admitting defeat.

Check out the thread stickied at the top of the CPU forum

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I did. Nothing in my M.I.T. even relates to that, or it uses COMPLETELY different names for everything! I'm not kidding, i dont see and NB or SB voltage controls running though it. VTT isn't even mentioned. I bought this board to overclock (it came with an ECS G31T-M mATX in a fry's combo) and it has nothing what you guys are talking about/ what the sticky refers to.

 

[Assimilator1]

Doesn't the manual tell you those settings?

[edit] Yep after I eventually managed to d/l the pdf manual I could see the relevant options, didn't you read the manual?

Anyway the equivalent to NBv is the MCH core (which error8 mentioned in his post), I've no idea what the MCH reference is though. I'd leave that alone if I were you, unless someone here can tell us what it is?

So drop your vcore to 1.2v, (you most likely won't need that higher until you go well over 3 GHz) , raise your MCH core 1 step & retest, keep doing that until you can get it stable at 390 MHz. I don't know what the upper safe limit would be though, maybe 1.3v? can someone else comment on this?
Btw once you've bumped up the MCH core you'll probably find you'll be able to go higher than 390 MHz FSB.

Also I'm pretty sure that CPU termination is the same thing as VTT, can someone corroborate this?

Once you know which voltage is which then use the 1 step increase & test method as per the quad o/cing sticky, oh & let us know what you get out of it .

 

[Gillbot]

Try to go over the FSB, try say 410. Some of these chips have FSB "holes" that they refuse to run in. My old Q9400 refused to run 450FSB but 445 and 455 were completely fine.

 

[Assimilator1]

I think he'd be bettor off trying to raise the NB/MCHv 1st, he hasn't touched that yet.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
I think he'd be bettor off trying to raise the NB/MCHv 1st, he hasn't touched that yet.

personally i'd try adjusting FSB before throwing more voltage at it. FSB changes won't do much other than not boot, if you enter a wrong voltage you can cause harm.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
I think he'd be bettor off trying to raise the NB/MCHv 1st, he hasn't touched that yet.

personally i'd try adjusting FSB before throwing more voltage at it. FSB changes won't do much other than not boot, if you enter a wrong voltage you can cause harm.

+1

FSB holes are common on C2D chips.

Sometimes if your unlucky its a roaming fsb hole, which is a PITA to deal with.

try jumping random fsb and see if you have a hole or not.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
I think he'd be bettor off trying to raise the NB/MCHv 1st, he hasn't touched that yet.

personally i'd try adjusting FSB before throwing more voltage at it. FSB changes won't do much other than not boot, if you enter a wrong voltage you can cause harm.

+1

FSB holes are common on C2D chips.

Sometimes if your unlucky its a roaming fsb hole, which is a PITA to deal with.

try jumping random fsb and see if you have a hole or not.

+2

And most board relax the internal timings once you go over 400

 

[Assimilator1]

Fair enough, out voted

However I wasn't suggesting very high voltages & if 400-405 FSB makes no difference then it's definitely worth trying higher voltages.

I don't see how you can have a roaming FSB hole though

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
Fair enough, out voted

However I wasn't suggesting very high voltages & if 400-405 FSB makes no difference then it's definitely worth trying higher voltages.

I don't see how you can have a roaming FSB hole though

I think he means roaming as in, there may be more than one. My old E8500 hated 400fsb, 450fsb and IIRC somewhere around 475fsb.

The 400fsb hole was exactly 400, 399 and 401 were fine. the 450 hole was around 440 through 458 or so, the 475 hole was 472 through 478 I believe. Above 478 all the way through 555 was ok.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Sweet. I'll be able to start OC'ing again in just a little bit. Have some prior arrangements so yeah, I have my MCH on auto right now, where should it be at?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
Fair enough, out voted

However I wasn't suggesting very high voltages & if 400-405 FSB makes no difference then it's definitely worth trying higher voltages.

I don't see how you can have a roaming FSB hole though

roaming as in its memory tied.

So the wall actually moves as you overclock.

 

[OCNewbie]

Just to confirm... for my Gigabyte board (EP45-UD3P) the north bridge is indeed the MCH and the VTT is the CPU Termination. I believe VTT/CPU Termination should be somewhere between 1.2-1.3. Definitely do not go higher than 1.4 as supposedly that can fry your chip, so 1.2-1.3 should be in the safe zone. MCH core you could try 1.2-1.3 I think as well, maybe 1.24-1.28 is what I read as recommended voltages.

You could try Gigabyte's EasyTune6 software, will let you mess with stuff within windows. At least for my board it does.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Well i took your advice OCNewbie, and to of no avail. I'm stuck at FSB 393 @ 2750mhz. I used you voltages (very closely) and anything from 399 to 420 couldn't post into windows or run Prime95.

At FSB 394 and up it just freezes. One notch lower and it seems to be PERFECTLY stable. I'm running prime95 currently at 45mins stable at 2750, so i guess i got an unlucky chip. Boo! I guess this is why not very many people buy this chip to overclock with. I still think a Core 2 Quad at 2.75Ghz will be fast enough for most games in the coming years, right?

I hate being 50mhz away from my goal

EDIT: Just a suggestion, could it be my PSU that's holding me back at all? I bought this from fry's just by looking at the name and the price ($89.99) and assumed it would be good for overclocking. It has three split 18amp 12V rails that can deliver a maximum of 42amps at one time.

 

[Gillbot]

It could be PSU or ram. Have you manually set your ram timings and voltage?

 

[Assimilator1]

Yea I was just wondering about the RAM too.

Scholzpdx, is your RAM being overclocked too far as you take the FSB up?
You know as you take the FSB up you may have to lower the RAM speed divider to keep it in spec?
What speed is your RAM at at 393 FSB?

And you tried MCH voltage?

Btw ref people not buying this chip for overclocking, it's not because the chip can't do the speed itself it's because you need really high FSB speeds to o/c this chip significantly, which is mbrd dependant.

To test your PSU properly you need a DMM.

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
Fair enough, out voted

However I wasn't suggesting very high voltages & if 400-405 FSB makes no difference then it's definitely worth trying higher voltages.

I don't see how you can have a roaming FSB hole though

I think he means roaming as in, there may be more than one. My old E8500 hated 400fsb, 450fsb and IIRC somewhere around 475fsb.

The 400fsb hole was exactly 400, 399 and 401 were fine. the 450 hole was around 440 through 458 or so, the 475 hole was 472 through 478 I believe. Above 478 all the way through 555 was ok.

Ah I got ya, so rather than floating about their patchy .

 

[GuitarDaddy]

What are your RAM settings? When you boot a FSB 393 what does CPU-Z report as your ram speed?

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I have it synced up to my FSB, at 393mhz. I dont think i'm really pushing it at all because it ran stable at 400mhz when my CPU was at its stock 2.33ghz. I only wanted 2.8Ghz out of this CPU, and i'm so close. The lady friend is busy so i'll get back to getting it up higher.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
I think he'd be bettor off trying to raise the NB/MCHv 1st, he hasn't touched that yet.

personally i'd try adjusting FSB before throwing more voltage at it. FSB changes won't do much other than not boot, if you enter a wrong voltage you can cause harm.

+1

FSB holes are common on C2D chips.

Sometimes if your unlucky its a roaming fsb hole, which is a PITA to deal with.

try jumping random fsb and see if you have a hole or not.

Thanks man, you just reminded me of something I was doing wrong! :beer: