I think I know why people on ATOT are hostile

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Ad hominem blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Idiot!

 

[CrazyLazy]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy
This forum can be downright hostile sometimes. People resort to Ad hominem arguments when trying to prove their ideas. The irony is an Ad hominem argument is a logical fallacy, that is making an argument like that will not prove your idea in a logical setting. It isn't about people needing to get a thicker skin, it's about treating one another with a level of respect, the respect you would if you met them in person.

I think part of the reason for this is a lack of community. Outside of a few infamous members most people have no idea who the person is that they are responding to. Even over the internet it is much easier to insult someone if you know that if you encounter that same person another time on the forum they are unlikely to remember you.

One way to help people remember things is visually. This is why companies have logos and people unique faces, so that you can tell at a glance what something is without reading a name and fully processing that information. Right now to recognize members uniquely I have to scan dozens of small difficult to remember names because at least 1,000 different people have that flag avatar. So I think in the VB switch members should be allowed to have personal unique avatars. Not some flashy annoying .gif. Just a small non-animated image that will let everyone know who you are.



Cliffs: Members should be able to choose their own small, non-animated avatar in an effort to build community on this forum.

no, it would lead to more hostility

No it wouldn't. That's the same argument private schools use for requiring uniforms, but truth is people looking to fight will always find something to use as a tool to start fights. Avatars allow personalization, but not at the cost of hostility. I've been on many forums, and I've never seen/had avatar issues starting arguments. Anyone foolish enough to make it a point of contention should take it elsewhere or be banned, anyway.

It's been discussed since long before any of you were members here (and before I was around too) and it is not going to happen. Nevermind the fact that it would more or less put an end to this being a SFW forum, it would substantially increase moderator workload. How about we just give vacations for Ad-hom attacks?

Given the VB switch I felt it was the pertinent time to bring it up. Will I agree with you that vacations for ad-hom attacks would be a good thing, I think it is better to change forum by building community, than by banning people.

 

[spaceman]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
You are not a unique snowflake...or however the saying goes.

you are not a unique snowflake you are a unique fleshy thawed snowman.

 

[BoomerD]

Nah...nice try though. The REAL reason is because we're not getting enough sexoring from hot sexay movie stars.

If you can take care of that for us...I, for one, would be eternally grateful. Female please...[dirtyoldman]and under 25 years of age. [/dirtyoldman]

 

[Dumac]

Evidence for the OP-

People with tripcodes on 4chan are usually nicer/less inflammatory/ smarter about their comments because what they say can be linked back to their tripcode, unless they want to drop/change it.

I do think anonymity encourages hostility, as you have little fear for consequences.

That said, this just seems as a way for CrazyLazy to take advantage of the internet's general hostility in order to play dress up with his virtual being by applying shiny, unique avatars.

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
You are not a unique snowflake...or however the saying goes.

"I'm a leaf on the wind..."

Hope your chair is armored...

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Evadman
Screw that. I don't want to come here and see someone's wang, or an avatar that is flipping me off.

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy
To those who claim that avatars would only give another way to let people express hostility I disagree. Apply some simple rules to them, no nudity, swearing or personal attacks within avatars. It would be difficult for any member to go long posting with an inflammatory avatar given how easy they are to spot.

None of those limitations can be coded into the system with current technology. As soon as current technology catches up, and we can make sure that none of those make it to an avatar, I may rethink my position.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't vB have group avatar settings? You could set everyone with a low post count (or "level") with profile image disabled, and have everyone else enabled. That way spammers can't use custom avatar, but everyone else can. Anyone using profile that is offensive (a la the current rules), ban (perma if necessary).

Pixel/size restriction would still keep forums clean. Don't allow inline images, though, because I realize that would be a moderation nightmare and would definitely clog up the forums (off site linking works fine, anyway).

I see no reason why custom avatars can't be allowed, even if you have to be very restrictive about who can use them and what is allowed.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy
Cliffs: Members should be able to choose their own small, non-animated avatar in an effort to build community on this forum.

Just put up a selection of racks and you'll satisfy 90% of the people, even save time... Honestly, that's most of the avatars on most forums that allow you to choose your own, and doesn't filter.

We have some fairly young kids here and the mods have done a rather fantastic job of keeping this mostly family friendly, head and shoulders above the rest of the internet.

Honestly, you can talk about hostility on these forums but go compare this to other places of comparable size. We're friendly by far, and while there are sharp words exchanged there are no out and out cruel or crude conversations (not for long). The forums have banded together to help people, both materially and emotionally.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy
The irony is an Ad hominem argument is a logical fallacy, that is making an argument like that will not prove your idea in a logical setting

Ad hominem attacks are invalid arguments but they are not logical fallacies. There's an important difference.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Nah...nice try though. The REAL reason is because we're not getting enough sexoring from hot sexay movie stars.

If you can take care of that for us...I, for one, would be eternally grateful. Female please...[dirtyoldman]and under 25 years of age. [/dirtyoldman]

Shoot, I'm right about to pass your cutoff age. Now I feel old.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Nah...nice try though. The REAL reason is because we're not getting enough sexoring from hot sexay movie stars.

If you can take care of that for us...I, for one, would be eternally grateful. Female please...[dirtyoldman]and under 25 years of age. [/dirtyoldman]

Shoot, I'm right about to pass your cutoff age. Now I feel old.

well, hey...it's not cast in stone or anything...pics please.

 

[OCGuy]

I like the current avatars. That way I can judge people without having to read their post.


Hippie - Stoner

Eagle - Batshit crazy. Usually posts are incoherent.

Office guy- 'ate them all

Blackman- ipodz for all

 

[GagHalfrunt]

The Declaration of Independence guarantees only life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Respect is earned, the internet is Darwinian in nature and people who go out of their way to prove how stupid they are get smacked. Why should it be any different here? Despite the wishes of namby-pamby crybabies who want the world to be like a Coke commercial where everyone joins hands and sings, it doesn't work like that on its own and you can't force it to work that way with some e-rules. The best feature of AT is that you CAN beat the living crap out of some idiot that's begging for it. Long live hostility, it's here to stay and stupid avatars won't change things one bit.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Blackman- change for all

Fixed.

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Ad hominem blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Idiot!

:laugh:

 

[CrazyLazy]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
The Declaration of Independence guarantees only life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Respect is earned, the internet is Darwinian in nature and people who go out of their way to prove how stupid they are get smacked. Why should it be any different here? Despite the wishes of namby-pamby crybabies who want the world to be like a Coke commercial where everyone joins hands and sings, it doesn't work like that on its own and you can't force it to work that way with some e-rules. The best feature of AT is that you CAN beat the living crap out of some idiot that's begging for it. Long live hostility, it's here to stay and stupid avatars won't change things one bit.

I agree with you on the respect point. But it is difficult to determine who deserves respect, and who doesn't, when uniquely identifying members takes a fair bit of brain power. This leads to people just throwing around insults because they don't know who deserves it, and who doesn't.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: clamum
Text

Y SO SRS?

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
The Declaration of Independence guarantees only life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Respect is earned, the internet is Darwinian in nature and people who go out of their way to prove how stupid they are get smacked. Why should it be any different here? Despite the wishes of namby-pamby crybabies who want the world to be like a Coke commercial where everyone joins hands and sings, it doesn't work like that on its own and you can't force it to work that way with some e-rules. The best feature of AT is that you CAN beat the living crap out of some idiot that's begging for it. Long live hostility, it's here to stay and stupid avatars won't change things one bit.

I agree with you on the respect point. But it is difficult to determine who deserves respect, and who doesn't, when uniquely identifying members takes a fair bit of brain power. This leads to people just throwing around insults because they don't know who deserves it, and who doesn't.

Everyone is deserving of courtesy, if not respect. If you can't manage either, just shut your trap

 

[CrazyLazy]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: clamum
Text

Y SO SRS?

Yes I think lolcat pics should be allowed as avatars.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy
This forum can be downright hostile sometimes. People resort to Ad hominem arguments when trying to prove their ideas. The irony is an Ad hominem argument is a logical fallacy, that is making an argument like that will not prove your idea in a logical setting. It isn't about people needing to get a thicker skin, it's about treating one another with a level of respect, the respect you would if you met them in person.

I think part of the reason for this is a lack of community. Outside of a few infamous members most people have no idea who the person is that they are responding to. Even over the internet it is much easier to insult someone if you know that if you encounter that same person another time on the forum they are unlikely to remember you.

One way to help people remember things is visually. This is why companies have logos and people unique faces, so that you can tell at a glance what something is without reading a name and fully processing that information. Right now to recognize members uniquely I have to scan dozens of small difficult to remember names because at least 1,000 different people have that flag avatar. So I think in the VB switch members should be allowed to have personal unique avatars. Not some flashy annoying .gif. Just a small non-animated image that will let everyone know who you are.



Cliffs: Members should be able to choose their own small, non-animated avatar in an effort to build community on this forum.

no, it would lead to more hostility

No it wouldn't. That's the same argument private schools use for requiring uniforms, but truth is people looking to fight will always find something to use as a tool to start fights. Avatars allow personalization, but not at the cost of hostility. I've been on many forums, and I've never seen/had avatar issues starting arguments. Anyone foolish enough to make it a point of contention should take it elsewhere or be banned, anyway.

you must be new to this forum.

 

[Mr Pickles]

My avatar would be an image of a hostile middle finger.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Evadman
Screw that. I don't want to come here and see someone's wang, or an avatar that is flipping me off.

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy
To those who claim that avatars would only give another way to let people express hostility I disagree. Apply some simple rules to them, no nudity, swearing or personal attacks within avatars. It would be difficult for any member to go long posting with an inflammatory avatar given how easy they are to spot.

None of those limitations can be coded into the system with current technology. As soon as current technology catches up, and we can make sure that none of those make it to an avatar, I may rethink my position.

even if you could do that, people here would still find something about the avatar that they could use to bash those people.

 

[SparkyJJO]

You don't understand. ATOT is too juvenile and hostile to be trusted with custom avatars like 99% of other forums out there

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
The Declaration of Independence guarantees only life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Respect is earned, the internet is Darwinian in nature and people who go out of their way to prove how stupid they are get smacked. Why should it be any different here? Despite the wishes of namby-pamby crybabies who want the world to be like a Coke commercial where everyone joins hands and sings, it doesn't work like that on its own and you can't force it to work that way with some e-rules. The best feature of AT is that you CAN beat the living crap out of some idiot that's begging for it. Long live hostility, it's here to stay and stupid avatars won't change things one bit.

I agree with you on the respect point. But it is difficult to determine who deserves respect, and who doesn't, when uniquely identifying members takes a fair bit of brain power. This leads to people just throwing around insults because they don't know who deserves it, and who doesn't.

"Fair bit of brainpower" = reading 1-3 words. If you can't exert that fair bit of brainpower, there's no chance you're going to construct intelligent respectful conversation.

 

[CrazyLazy]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: CrazyLazy

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
The Declaration of Independence guarantees only life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Respect is earned, the internet is Darwinian in nature and people who go out of their way to prove how stupid they are get smacked. Why should it be any different here? Despite the wishes of namby-pamby crybabies who want the world to be like a Coke commercial where everyone joins hands and sings, it doesn't work like that on its own and you can't force it to work that way with some e-rules. The best feature of AT is that you CAN beat the living crap out of some idiot that's begging for it. Long live hostility, it's here to stay and stupid avatars won't change things one bit.

I agree with you on the respect point. But it is difficult to determine who deserves respect, and who doesn't, when uniquely identifying members takes a fair bit of brain power. This leads to people just throwing around insults because they don't know who deserves it, and who doesn't.

"Fair bit of brainpower" = reading 1-3 words. If you can't exert that fair bit of brainpower, there's no chance you're going to construct intelligent respectful conversation.

You have to realize it's not just reading the members name, it's memorizing their name and the personality that goes along with it. Now imagine doing that 50 times over for every single unique person posting in a thread. Science tells us that graphical representations of something make it much easier to recognize and remember something.

For example, I can see a glimpse of a Coca Cola logo driving down the highway at 60mph and know exactly what it was. If that same store just had a plain text logo saying "Coca Cola" I would have no idea what it said. On other forums I frequent I can quickly scroll past an avatar in my peripheral vision and know exactly who is making that post.