I think I bricked my car.. help.

[Zeze]

I have a Hyundai Tucson 2013 2.3L with 75K miles.

• I was replacing a trunk light. Simple enough right?
• During the replacement, I saw a little zap between the metal clip connector and the bulb.
• Now my car alarm doesn't work (remote key), trunk door doesn't open, map lights + dome lights don't turn on.
• I can start the car fine and drive around with headlights.
• Must be a fuse thing right? Well, I took out and inspected all fuses - inside driver's seat + under the hood. All are fine except (2) I couldn't pull out inside.
• So.. what now? I wonder if it's the remaining 2.

 

[Sgt. York]

Pull the fuse diagram from the interwebs and find which fuse controls that circuit.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Do you have the fuse layout? That should be able to tell you pretty easily I'd think if its those fuses responsible.

Which, my guess is, there was a pre-existing short or something, and that's what caused the zap. Or whatever you were doing (metal clip connector and the bulb? Were you replacing with same type of bulb or maybe switching to LED or something?) might have caused something.

Which, maybe disconnect and reconnect the 12V battery (good old, "did you try turning it off and then back on?") to see if maybe that'd reset anything.

And maybe there's a switch that you can disable and then enable the alarm? For instance on my Mom's Prius there's a few buttons by the steering wheel (kinda hidden and not ones you'd tend to normally turn on/off) where you can enable/disable the proximity key, reset/sync TPS, and one or two others. You can also boot into a diagnostics menu on the infotainment screen by doing certain startup procedure.

 

[Torn Mind]

Incidents like these are why cheap Korean cars are cheap. Crappy, not durable construction.

Arcing in a car. hahaha. Buy some dielectric grease when installing future bulbs. The protection from arcs and corrosion outweigh the slight loss in conductivity.

 

[pcgeek11]

Inspected the fuses?

You can't tell if a fuse is blown by sight only, it can look good and still be open.

Get a meter DMM or a test light.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Inspected the fuses?

You can't tell if a fuse is blown by sight only, it can look good and still be open.

Get a meter DMM or a test light.

Ditto to that!

I just have a completely different way of looking at automobile ownership. Call it the "poor mechanic's strategy". But even if I bought a new car, I'd make another parallel investment: the factory shop manual. A friend told me the shop manual for his 2017 Corolla was priced at $600. Of course, once he drove the new car off the dealer lot, he probably lost a few kilo-bucks anyway. The shop-manual has all the wiring diagrams, which -- as someone mentioned -- you should consult about this.

A test-light is a $10 Autozone / O'Reilly's item that anyone should have.

What's more -- NEVER, NEVER fiddle with electrical connections on the car unless they're powered through the ACC accessory circuit and your ignition key is OFF. Disconnect the battery's negative lead first, THEN fiddle with wiring, bulbs -- whatever.

I posted a thread here more than a year ago about my search for a new repair shop and a once-in-a-lifetime encounter with a Mechanic-From-Hell. He broke the water-pipe between my interior heater-core and the engine. Tried to deceive me by looping the hoses so I didn't have passenger-heating anymore. I took the vehicle back the next day -- furious. To replace the heater-core, he had to pull the entire dashboard assembly. The ASSHOLE didn't even disconnect the battery! I get the car back with no windshield wiper or washer operation. Discovered the blown fuse myself. I told them "No more of your warranty assurances! That ASSHOLE will never touch my car AGAIN!"

 

[Torn Mind]

Disconnecting the batteries saves both a laptop and fuses on a car.

Ditto to that!

I just have a completely different way of looking at automobile ownership. Call it the "poor mechanic's strategy". But even if I bought a new car, I'd make another parallel investment: the factory shop manual. A friend told me the shop manual for his 2017 Corolla was priced at $600. Of course, once he drove the new car off the dealer lot, he probably lost a few kilo-bucks anyway. The shop-manual has all the wiring diagrams, which -- as someone mentioned -- you should consult about this.

A test-light is a $10 Autozone / O'Reilly's item that anyone should have.

What's more -- NEVER, NEVER fiddle with electrical connections on the car unless they're powered through the ACC accessory circuit and your ignition key is OFF. Disconnect the battery's negative lead first, THEN fiddle with wiring, bulbs -- whatever.

I posted a thread here more than a year ago about my search for a new repair shop and a once-in-a-lifetime encounter with a Mechanic-From-Hell. He broke the water-pipe between my interior heater-core and the engine. Tried to deceive me by looping the hoses so I didn't have passenger-heating anymore. I took the vehicle back the next day -- furious. To replace the heater-core, he had to pull the entire dashboard assembly. The ASSHOLE didn't even disconnect the battery! I get the car back with no windshield wiper or washer operation. Discovered the blown fuse myself. I told them "No more of your warranty assurances! That ASSHOLE will never touch my car AGAIN!"

Somehow, I doubt his Corolla will need any shop manual diagnostics for 10, even 15 years.

Might need a door gasket, maybe a clock. Maybe the seats will kill his back. Probably should not run the original coolant the full ten years. The battery cables should be greased up with silicone. But the Corolla is the (old) Craftsman/Anker of cars. The appliance you don't appreciate until a POS appliance replaces it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Disconnecting the batteries saves both a laptop and fuses on a car.


Somehow, I doubt his Corolla will need any shop manual diagnostics for 10, even 15 years.

Might need a door gasket, maybe a clock. Maybe the seats will kill his back. Probably should not run the original coolant the full ten years. The battery cables should be greased up with silicone. But the Corolla is the (old) Craftsman/Anker of cars. The appliance you don't appreciate until a POS appliance replaces it.

You can say that . . . Abso-tively, Posi-lutely -- YES! My smog-test man passed on a Toyota myth: "You only need to change the oil!"

But I follow the "poor mechanic strategy" even when I buy a new car (and I've done that).

Buy the Effing Shop Manual, I say! A person could wait, because the price of the manuals comes down. Eventually, they'll be published in PDF searchable format for $25. But I even bought my $100 five-pound Trooper manual when I purchased the car as a seven-year-old second-hand ride -- about 12 years before I found it in PDF. 2,000 pages -- it has to have its own bookshelf, like my Webster's 3rd New International or the Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary.

Sometimes, I take it along in the passenger seat when I'm having a repair done at the shop. I know the shops and mechanics have a lot of on-line reference sources, but sometimes I feel motivated . . . .

Hey! I just figured something out for my Trooper 21st century retro-fit!

I can put the PDF on the Android center-console tablet, which is my Borg-Queen Auto-Information-System, voice-nav and backup camera music-library center!

I just don't know about letting a shop mechanic fiddle with my touch-screen, and I don't mean because of smudges, either . . .

 

[BoomerD]

Could also be a blown fusible link somewhere. I've had that happen twice...all the normal fuses were fine...things still didn't work. Found a bad fusible link in an out-of-sight place.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Could also be a blown fusible link somewhere. I've had that happen twice...all the normal fuses were fine...things still didn't work. Found a bad fusible link in an out-of-sight place.

Fusible-links drew my attention when I installed my fog-lights and made my audio-system upgrade. Somehow, I came away with the idea that they're hard to find or replace. Is that true? It shouldn't be a problem for a 2017 model year, even so.

Vehicles are different. My circuit diagrams show things like interior (or trunk) lights as wired in parallel to other lights. They aren't wired to the accessory lead; don't require the ignition to be on.

Here's a weird story. I replaced all sidemarker/signa/hazard/backup and tail-lights with LED equivalents. I left the stop-lights alone with incandescent bulbs: LEDs caused the Shift-Control Solenoid under the center console to click on and off when you put your foot on the brake -- with the shift-lever in "Park". For R, D, 3, 2 and 1, no such problem -- but that's intuitive.

Then, I discovered that replacing the teensy-weensie tiny little license-plate lamp with LED caused the fuse to blow for that circuit. I put in another fuse: blown. Put in a fuse rated at 5 amps more: blown.

So I returned the incandescent license light to its socket. All wonderful. But for months, I noticed that the idiot-light for the "Power" switch on my center console -- controlled by the combo-light-switch that turns on the parking lights -- was not coming on. So, for additional months, I contemplated removing the center-console cover around the auto-trans shift and 4WD levers to replace the bulb. "Power" and "Winter" switches control how the transmission responds to the accelerator pedal. Challenged on the street by someone driving a newer jelly-bean SUV? Push the "Power" switch -- Warp Speed, Spock!

After a discussion with my retired Navy electronics-tech expert-friend, I decided to add two more incandescent bulbs to the license-plate assembly. The mounting holes and recesses were already there as designed by the factory. I just needed to solder pairs of wires in parallel to the original license-plate wiring, put it all back together -- Voila! You can see my license number from afar. I'm sure the police would appreciate it.

Suddenly! I say, Suddenly! The idiot light for the "Power" button works like it's supposed to! Very strange! But when you add LEDs replacing incandescents, there's lower resistance in the circuit, and I might guess the ECM computer or something keeps tabs on this. But too little resistance and the fuse blows. So? What gives, by adding back two teensie-weensie Sylvania bulbs for the license-plate? I don't get it . . .

 

[Pacfanweb]

You likely just blew a fuse. Get the owner's manual out, look in the index for "Fuses" and you'll find where they are and a diagram. Find the one for what you were working on and check it. Or just swap it with another one.
Usually you can pull it and see that it's blown....not every time, sometimes they look okay, but 9/10 they're obvious.

 

[Meghan54]

Fusible-links drew my attention when I installed my fog-lights and made my audio-system upgrade. Somehow, I came away with the idea that they're hard to find or replace. Is that true? It shouldn't be a problem for a 2017 model year, even so.

Vehicles are different. My circuit diagrams show things like interior (or trunk) lights as wired in parallel to other lights. They aren't wired to the accessory lead; don't require the ignition to be on.

Here's a weird story. I replaced all sidemarker/signa/hazard/backup and tail-lights with LED equivalents. I left the stop-lights alone with incandescent bulbs: LEDs caused the Shift-Control Solenoid under the center console to click on and off when you put your foot on the brake -- with the shift-lever in "Park". For R, D, 3, 2 and 1, no such problem -- but that's intuitive.

Then, I discovered that replacing the teensy-weensie tiny little license-plate lamp with LED caused the fuse to blow for that circuit. I put in another fuse: blown. Put in a fuse rated at 5 amps more: blown.

So I returned the incandescent license light to its socket. All wonderful. But for months, I noticed that the idiot-light for the "Power" switch on my center console -- controlled by the combo-light-switch that turns on the parking lights -- was not coming on. So, for additional months, I contemplated removing the center-console cover around the auto-trans shift and 4WD levers to replace the bulb. "Power" and "Winter" switches control how the transmission responds to the accelerator pedal. Challenged on the street by someone driving a newer jelly-bean SUV? Push the "Power" switch -- Warp Speed, Spock!

After a discussion with my retired Navy electronics-tech expert-friend, I decided to add two more incandescent bulbs to the license-plate assembly. The mounting holes and recesses were already there as designed by the factory. I just needed to solder pairs of wires in parallel to the original license-plate wiring, put it all back together -- Voila! You can see my license number from afar. I'm sure the police would appreciate it.

Suddenly! I say, Suddenly! The idiot light for the "Power" button works like it's supposed to! Very strange! But when you add LEDs replacing incandescents, there's lower resistance in the circuit, and I might guess the ECM computer or something keeps tabs on this. But too little resistance and the fuse blows. So? What gives, by adding back two teensie-weensie Sylvania bulbs for the license-plate? I don't get it . . .

That reminds me of a Honda Accord my brother's shop was working on about a decade or so ago. Seems the owner changed every light bulb in the car to LED...and we're talking EVERY bulb, like dash lights, etc. Seems also that the Honda computer didn't much like the change from the LED's vs. the incandescents they replaced, hence made the car run like cow dung.

His shop had over a week working on it when I visited. A week later when I left, the car was still there. Seems that changing every bulb back to OEM didn't quite fix the problem. Never heard if the car ever ran properly again.

 

[Torn Mind]

The one-direction nature of diodes could very well effect a circuit if it was designed with the assumption that an incandescent's "either direction" properties are going to be there.

Build quality could also be an issue if it is generic Ebay Chinese products.

 

[Scarpozzi]

My Toyota 4Runner has a few different body ECU's...basically, these are what sends those light circuits an artificial ground to make them twinkle....so many of the lights have 3 wires....1 positive that's always on/connected....then they may have an artificial ground that comes from the ECU when certain conditions occur and the computer wants the lights on (like courtesy lights, etc if a door opens or key fob is used)...then the 3rd wire may be an actual ground that's coming off a hard-wired switch or circuit.

Wrap your head around that concept/logic because I'm sure Hyundai may do something similar if the trunk light is triggered automagically by the computer instead of with a spring-loaded switch directly. There's definitely a chance you just tripped a fuse, but hopefully you didn't damage the computer somehow. I've had a 1+ year issue with my Toyota and haven't wanted to pay someone to diagnose/fix it. I'm finally done with car payments, so I may throw cash at the problem to make it go away.

 

[mindless1]

What's more -- NEVER, NEVER fiddle with electrical connections on the car unless they're powered through the ACC accessory circuit and your ignition key is OFF. Disconnect the battery's negative lead first, THEN fiddle with wiring, bulbs -- whatever.

This is not realistic. Many (most) troubleshooting efforts involve tracing a live circuit to see where power stops. You don't have to do it that way but it saves time, is much easier than doing powerless continuity, resistance, pulling relays to check out of vehicle, and needing a special test jig to do that with any computer modules if not live in the vehicle.

Further I have never disconnected the battery to merely change a bulb. Under-hood work where I have to disconnect things to get them out of the way, or taking the whole dash off, sure disconnect the battery first but you may end up needing to reconnect it for testing.

Must be a fuse thing right? Well, I took out and inspected all fuses - inside driver's seat + under the hood. All are fine except (2) I couldn't pull out inside.

I glanced at the owner's manual and it shows an interior fuse box to the left of the steering column on the dash, nothing about one "inside driver's seat". That is most likely where a blown fuse is, as there is little reason to put the smaller value (should trip first unless aftermarket generic Chinese fuses of wildly wrong values were installed) in series upstream in the engine compartment box for interior things like a dome light, but I suppose given how many things are non-functional, I wouldn't resist checking the engine bay box too, but the interior one is where I'd check for power and/or blown fuse first.

What does "(2) I couldn't pull out inside" mean? There should be no problem pulling any fuses out, though if your fingers can't get it, then GENTLY use needle nose pliers. If they are the type of fuse with openings above both contacts, you do not need to remove them to check, just use a multimeter with one lead clipped to a chassis ground and the other lead, with a fine needle tip (adapter) on it, you insert into both ends of the fuse when the circuit should be live, and then should get 12V on both sides if the fuse isn't blown, OR you can check resistance between both contacts of the fuse though the upper slits in them.

It would help to have wiring diagrams. There's probably someone in a Tucson specific web forum that has them so you might try asking there, or here is "maybe" one source if they didn't change between '10 and '13, though this one is crappily put together so you'd have to search the whole 145 pages of the PDF, but this site leeches things from other sites and throws it all into a single PDF, so "somewhere" out there (on the web, not a paid or private service), these same diagrams are individual and easier to use:

https://cardiagn.com/tucson-gls-2008-10-system-wiring-diagrams/

 

[BonzaiDuck]

This is not realistic. Many (most) troubleshooting efforts involve tracing a live circuit to see where power stops. You don't have to do it that way but it saves time, is much easier than doing powerless continuity, resistance, pulling relays to check out of vehicle, and needing a special test jig to do that with any computer modules if not live in the vehicle.

Further I have never disconnected the battery to merely change a bulb. Under-hood work where I have to disconnect things to get them out of the way, or taking the whole dash off, sure disconnect the battery first but you may end up needing to reconnect it for testing.



I glanced at the owner's manual and it shows an interior fuse box to the left of the steering column on the dash, nothing about one "inside driver's seat". That is most likely where a blown fuse is, as there is little reason to put the smaller value (should trip first unless aftermarket generic Chinese fuses of wildly wrong values were installed) in series upstream in the engine compartment box for interior things like a dome light, but I suppose given how many things are non-functional, I wouldn't resist checking the engine bay box too, but the interior one is where I'd check for power and/or blown fuse first.

What does "(2) I couldn't pull out inside" mean? There should be no problem pulling any fuses out, though if your fingers can't get it, then GENTLY use needle nose pliers. If they are the type of fuse with openings above both contacts, you do not need to remove them to check, just use a multimeter with one lead clipped to a chassis ground and the other lead, with a fine needle tip (adapter) on it, you insert into both ends of the fuse when the circuit should be live, and then should get 12V on both sides if the fuse isn't blown, OR you can check resistance between both contacts of the fuse though the upper slits in them.

It would help to have wiring diagrams. There's probably someone in a Tucson specific web forum that has them so you might try asking there, or here is "maybe" one source if they didn't change between '10 and '13, though this one is crappily put together so you'd have to search the whole 145 pages of the PDF, but this site leeches things from other sites and throws it all into a single PDF, so "somewhere" out there (on the web, not a paid or private service), these same diagrams are individual and easier to use:

https://cardiagn.com/tucson-gls-2008-10-system-wiring-diagrams/

If you need to have a circuit powered to test it, then don't disconnect the battery. But it's otherwise a minor inconvenience that only requires resetting your dashboard clock's time and couple other things.

I have an old thread about encountering a "shop of horrors and mechanic-from-hell" in 2019. There were at least two cycles of f***ups that required returning the car to the shop. Every time the MFH would address something he previously broke, he'd break something else. In the last iteration, he had to pull the dashboard to replace a heater core that he'd broken. He didn't disconnect the battery. The car came back to me with no wipers or window-washer operating. We were going to take it back for a third cycle of repair-under-warranty, until I discovered the blown fuse for those components -- a 5 minute correction.

The shop-owner told me to bring it back and they'd fix the steering-wheel horn switch from which they'd accidentally disconnected a bullet plug. At that point, I told them to forget it unless they wanted pay out-of-pocket for another shop to do the work.

Then, I fixed it myself.

 

[mindless1]

Vehicle electronics are special to a mechanic, but not so much to someone exercised in electronics.

Shops, meh they are a recipe for profit. Either you can or can't follow a circuit and DIY. There is wisdom in both depending on what your skill set is.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Vehicle electronics are special to a mechanic, but not so much to someone exercised in electronics.

Shops, meh they are a recipe for profit. Either you can or can't follow a circuit and DIY. There is wisdom in both depending on what your skill set is.

Yes, with me it's a mix. I don't have a hydraulic lift in my garage. Jackstands get in the way when you're already going through body contortions under the car. By the time I'm ready to decide between DIY and the shop, I've figured out how the work has to be done and how I'd manage to do it. After what I'd done this summer routing wires behind my dashboard, installing dashboard switches and components, I'll pay the mechanic $120 to replace my alternator (my "Alternator" thread . . . ). And give myself a break.

I can appreciate that you can replace light-bulbs without disconnecting the battery -- IF! -- IF! -- the light circuit controlling those bulbs is switched OFF. But trunk-lights? Door lights?

You'd think some mishap would only blow a fuse. But with the battery disconnected, it wouldn't have happened.

My car has an ECM -- computer -- of 1995 vintage. For PCs, that was the Pentium era. So those automotive computers, even then, were capable of a lot of things.

I think I already told the story about the "Power" [with "Winter"] switch that changes the transmission's behavior. I'd replaced a lot of incandescent lights with LEDs, and the idiot light under the Power switch was no longer working. Then I added two small incandescent license-plate lights into the equation, and the damn idiot light is now working again after more than a year out of commission.

I miss the old days, even if fuel-injection beats carburetion hands down . . . And ECMs somehow adjust the gas-air mixture to reduce emissions and run at top efficiency.

 

[Torn Mind]

Getting mechanics from hell, or a real estate agent, or a lawyer, or a contractor is all but normal because the most successful in those crafts are also the most psycho- and sociopathic. And the real kicker is that with "expertise", they've got the legal advantage over you.

 

[mindless1]

I miss the old days, even if fuel-injection beats carburetion hands down . . . And ECMs somehow adjust the gas-air mixture to reduce emissions and run at top efficiency.

... I can appreciate that you can replace light-bulbs without disconnecting the battery -- IF! -- IF! -- the light circuit controlling those bulbs is switched OFF. But trunk-lights? Door lights?

... Jackstands get in the way when you're already going through body contortions under the car.

I'll take an early OBD2 era vehicle over a carb'd one any day. Even if you have eventual sensor replacement expenses, it's nice to be able to hook up a scan tool and get codes for what is going wrong, even if it's a nonspecific code like random misfires or fuel trim off. It still helps suggest what direction to go in next.

I don't have many reservations about putting a bulb in a live socket except for two.

1) It may get hot quick and I want to make sure it is tight.

2) I don't want fingerprint oil on the globe which can cause it to break, though this is more common with halogen than the less power dense bulbs.

Wearing gloves can handle both of these, but of course there is no "need" to have the circuit powered to change a bulb, and in the case of a door, most now use a latch-switch to detect the door is closed rather than the pin-switch design from earlier eras so you can just flip the latch (with the door open) to shut that off, or with a pin switch it is usually weak enough spring tension that a piece of duct tape will hold it in.

Working under a vehicle is not for everyone, particularly as people get older and develop back problems, but the contortions are greatly reduced if you use a high lift jack and tall, over-spec (weight, and a wider more stable base) jack stands so it's not a problem having the vehicle up higher. Even ~4" extra room to move around can help a lot. I don't find that they get in the way much when it's a body on frame vehicle, more options then on where to place the jack stands.