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I pity Ben Carson and others like him even more now...

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
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Sometimes people's distorted perception of reality causes them to be their own worst enemy.







 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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I feel very sorry for every person who Carson operated on and now realize what a chucklehead he really is.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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Those gifs show the commentator dude as clearly misrepresenting Carson. Black =/= black America =/= "the black experience". Carson may be attacking a strawman, and growing up in an environment where your identity is completely different from those around you could have its own problems, but on the face of what was said, it's true. It's not just a "poor" thing either, although that obviously runs concomitant with being black in America; Obama grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia, two places with virtually no black people around.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,200
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Those gifs show the commentator dude as clearly misrepresenting Carson. Black =/= black America =/= "the black experience". Carson may be attacking a strawman, and growing up in an environment where your identity is completely different from those around you could have its own problems, but on the face of what was said, it's true. It's not just a "poor" thing either, although that obviously runs concomitant with being black in America; Obama grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia, two places with virtually no black people around.
Hello clueless, have you met carson? You should, you both have a lot in common. You are both idiots.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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Hello clueless, have you met carson? You should, you both have a lot in common. You are both idiots.
Hello, you appear to disagree with me on something. Please state the nature of the disagreement so that we may resolve this problem.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,200
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Hello, you appear to disagree with me on something. Please state the nature of the disagreement so that we may resolve this problem.
You seem to think that in order to grow up and experience being black you have to grow up with other black people, your comment is as ignorant as carson's.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
26,975
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We had a black family that lived in our neighborhood when I was growing up. I hung out with the two brothers and went through high school with them. Their father was an officer in the military and they were as affluent as most others in the neighborhood. These friends of mine were pretty white for black people. We played ball in the streets, ate at each others houses, went on outings together, had birthday parties together, went to the lake and water skied and numerous other activities. We didn't know race and didn't treat each other any way but equal.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
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We had a black family that lived in our neighborhood when I was growing up. I hung out with the two brothers and went through high school with them. Their father was an officer in the military and they were as affluent as most others in the neighborhood. These friends of mine were pretty white for black people. We played ball in the streets, ate at each others houses, went on outings together, had birthday parties together, went to the lake and water skied and numerous other activities. We didn't know race and didn't treat each other any way but equal.
Pretty white for black people...

It sounds to me like you are speaking of some rare form of being you do not encounter much these days.

You lost me somewhere there.

 
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HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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Did you just make the same racist association as Ben Carson? That being black equates to being poor?
Black people in general are far poorer than white people in America. If anything it's racist to deny that.

You seem to think that in order to grow up and experience being black you have to grow up with other black people, your comment is as ignorant as carson's.
Do you deny that a significant part of identifying as a member of a certain group depends on how others around you treat your identity?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,200
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Black people in general are far poorer than white people in America. If anything it's racist to deny that.



Do you deny that a significant part of identifying as a member of a certain group depends on how others around you treat your identity?
You are so close to getting it! Read the bolded again and again until you understand why one doesn't need to grow up with other blacks to experience growing up black;)
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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You are so close to getting it! Read the bolded again and again until you understand why one doesn't need to grow up with other blacks to experience growing up black;)
Because a black person surrounded by Hawaiians and Indonesians is treated the same way as a black person surrounded by other black people in Detroit?
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
26,975
763
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Pretty white for black people...

It sounds to me like you are speaking of some rare form of being you do not encounter much these days.

You lost me somewhere there.

It means exactly what I meant, that we didn't see them as different. Can ya handle that, just maybe, their parents taught them respect and how to act respectable? Both brothers grew up to be successful in their endeavors. We're still friends today.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,200
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Because a black person surrounded by Hawaiians and Indonesians is treated the same way as a black person surrounded by other black people in Detroit?
Clueless!

Let me help you out a little. If a white boy grew up in a black neighborhood surrounded by black people would you say he experienced what is was like to be black?

I await luls.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,148
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Black people in general are far poorer than white people in America. If anything it's racist to deny that.
That's a generalization. A stereotype. It sounds like you are saying black people are all alike, and have similar lifestyles, and in contrast to most white people they are poor, whereas white people are generally wealthy.

I'm sure you realize these stereotypes do not apply to everyone from each of those races. So why make the sweeping statement?

It would be similar to saying most black people enjoy eating watermelon and chicken, and enjoy playing basketball more than white people do.

That statement is false because it takes away the individuality of people and makes sweeping and sometimes inaccurate or even flat out false statements about a particular race. That makes it racist especially when it's a negative statement about a particular race.

You may as well also say Asians are poor drivers or good at math. Surely you know that is not true for all Asians. It might not even be true for the majority of them! Have you tested the majority of Asians on their driving ability? Or compared their math scores to everyone else or did you just believe the stereotype certain people continually state?

Have you polled every white person for how many like watermelon and polled every black person for how many do? Do you have evidence of the results and validity of this survey?

Even if you did, you are insulting the individuals who do not conform to the majority! You are assuming they are the same as everyone else from their race because of their race!

Furthermore you are assuming based on skin color and not even race.
I submit this is erroneous thinking.
 
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MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
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It means exactly what I meant, that we didn't see them as different. Can ya handle that, just maybe, their parents taught them respect and how to act respectable? Both brothers grew up to be successful in their endeavors. We're still friends today.
I could write a very long wall of text in response to that, that I won't.

The "pretty white for black people" just still makes me laugh to be honest.
 
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HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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Clueless!

Let me help you out a little. If a white boy grew up in a black neighborhood surrounded by black people would you say he experienced what is was like to be black?

I await luls.
No, but he would have had at least some experience of what it would be like to grow up in black America. If you check what Carson said in the op, he describes Obama as not growing up in black America.

That's a generalization. A stereotype. It sounds like you are saying black people are all alike, and have similar lifestyles, and in contrast to most white people they are poor, whereas white people are generally wealthy.

I'm sure you realize these stereotypes do not apply to everyone from each of those races. So why make the sweeping statement?

It would be similar to saying most black people enjoy eating watermelon and chicken, and enjoy playing basketball more than white people do.

That statement is false because it takes away the individuality of people and makes sweeping and sometimes inaccurate or even flat out false statements about a particular race. That makes it racist especially when it's a negative statement about a particular race.

You may as well also say Asians are poor drivers or good at math. Surely you know that is not true for all Asians. It might not even be true for the majority of them! Have you tested the majority of Asians on their driving ability? Or compared their math scores to everyone else or did you just believe the stereotype certain people continually state?
Straight from M-W:

5
a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture> c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization <a corporate culture focused on the bottom line> d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic <studying the effect of computers on print culture> <changing the culture of materialism will take time &#8212; Peggy O'Mara>
Culture inherently relies on shared beliefs, experiences, etc. Individuals can be stereotyped, but populations exist in cultures. Who am I taking individuality away from? I'm saying that Obama is a black individual with experiences far removed from any kind of black American culture. This has nothing to do with stereotyped habits like eating watermelon or whatever as you mentioned above; this has to do with the culture a person is born and raised into. An individual can choose to shun their culture, but they can't change the fact that it's where they came from.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,200
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Growing up in black America is not the same as experiencing what it means to grow up black.

You aren't getting it. The issue with carson's statement isn't with him claiming Obama didn't grow up in black America, the issue is he claimed Obama didn't represent the black experience. One statement is true and the other is speculation at best and bullshit at worst.

No, but he would have had at least some experience of what it would be like to grow up in black America. If you check what Carson said in the op, he describes Obama as not growing up in black America.



Straight from M-W:



Culture inherently relies on shared beliefs, experiences, etc. Individuals can be stereotyped, but populations exist in cultures. Who am I taking individuality away from? I'm saying that Obama is a black individual with experiences far removed from any kind of black American culture. This has nothing to do with stereotyped habits like eating watermelon or whatever as you mentioned above; this has to do with the culture a person is born and raised into. An individual can choose to shun their culture, but they can't change the fact that it's where they came from.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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Growing up in black America is not the same as experiencing what it means to grow up black.

You aren't getting it. The issue with carson's statement isn't with him claiming Obama didn't grow up in black America, the issue is he claimed Obama didn't represent the black experience. One statement is true and the other is speculation at best and bullshit at worst.
Please define the black experience/what it means to grow up black.
 

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