I order 2 dozen golf balls off Ebay

[Muse]

I was passing the practice green at my home course and noticed a guy I know using super bright yellow balls and I ask him what they were. He says Titleist NXT Tour Yellow, and they are discontinued, can get them cheap... if you can find them. I dig around online a few days ago and order 2 dozen off Ebay for $20 + $7 shipping. Used, "MINT:

2 Dozen (24) Titleist NXT Tour S Yellow Golf Balls MINT

Yesterday I get a package and this is what was in it:

Those are 13 of the specified balls and a Snell MBT (never heard of Snell before). I go to my ebay account and initiate a return. I suppose they'll send me the missing 11 Titleist yellow balls instead of making me send those 14 balls back with a mailing label, but who knows? Anyone capable of a dumbass move like that you don't know what to expect.

The seller's showing 298 items sold, 100% feedback, but I'm WTF on this one, it's pretty loopy.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I don't know that seller, but there are a bunch of vendors on ebay that move millions of used balls. It's a big business now and it's a great way to buy balls because the mint and near mint balls are equivalent to new balls that have been hit once or twice. I've bought some in the past and was really impressed at how good the balls were compared to how cheap they were selling.

One caveat is to NEVER EVER buy "refinished" "refurbished", "rejuvenated" or any other word that means the balls have been repaired or doctored. Those are the ones that were cut or found in a lake after sitting there for years and we too badly damaged to sell as used. They're like a car with a salvage title, a new coat of paint doesn't fix the damage underneath and they don't perform anything like a new ball. The ones you bought should be fine. They're kinda cheap balls anyway, there's no market to refinish or refurbish those like there is for ProV1.

BTW, the Snell is actually okay. Dean Snell just buys off the rack generic house balls from a manufacturer in Korea and has his name stamped on them like Vice does. He gets his balls from the same place that Costco buys theirs. I did some research on the brands like Snell, Vice and other small companies that put their names on generic balls from Korea and Taiwan. It's amazing how cheap they are when bought in bulk. There is a ton of markup on balls, these places buy 3-piece urethane balls with construction and performance similar to the ProV1 for like $10 a dozen or less, sell them for $25 or $30 a dozen and make a great profit margin.

 

[Muse]

Thanks for the run down, GagHalfrunt. I have seen Vice (found ball on my home course). I find so many there, just far more than I can play. I hit some off the range, WTH.

Those balls in the picture, they look pretty good... didn't inspect carefully. Some are dirty, will wash them if I keep them. Am awaiting answer from the seller what their next move is.

I'll play a yellow ball when my partners are playing mostly white, otherwise I play a white ball.

Your comments confirm my suspicions, that a lot of the cheaper balls are really pretty good balls. Myself, my game isn't so refined that I can judge based on just how it plays on the course. I've played what's for me really good golf with balls that I would not associate with the more prestigious balls. I suppose there must be some demystification info online about the quality and advantages, etc. of different golf balls, but haven't looked into that. Your post above is very interesting!

 

[deadlyapp]

At first I was wondering if maybe they send them in packs of 12, and throw in a random 13th, like a bakers dozen, and that you'd get another box soon, but the listing appears to be a clear 24 so it would seem a little odd.

Good luck!

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Thanks for the run down, GagHalfrunt. I have seen Vice (found ball on my home course). I find so many there, just far more than I can play. I hit some off the range, WTH.

Those balls in the picture, they look pretty good... didn't inspect carefully. Some are dirty, will wash them if I keep them. Am awaiting answer from the seller what their next move is.

I'll play a yellow ball when my partners are playing mostly white, otherwise I play a white ball.

Your comments confirm my suspicions, that a lot of the cheaper balls are really pretty good balls. Myself, my game isn't so refined that I can judge based on just how it plays on the course. I've played what's for me really good golf with balls that I would not associate with the more prestigious balls. I suppose there must be some demystification info online about the quality and advantages, etc. of different golf balls, but haven't looked into that. Your post above is very interesting!

The thing about golf balls is that they're built down to a legal spec. It's not a case of manufacturers trying to outdo each other, they hit the performance ceiling about 15 years ago and while they *could* make balls better they're not allowed to. So EVERYONE is pretty much bunched up terms of performance. Titleist used to have an advantage in the early 2000's when the ProV1 was new and other brands were using balata, but that day is long long long gone. That's why the Costco balls caused such a havoc in the market, they are every bit as good as the ProV1, the Srixon Z Star, Callaway Chrome, Taylormade TP5, etc at less than half the price. You could take the Kirkland ball into a US Open and not be sacrificing even 1% performance to the guys using $40+ a dozen "tour" balls. The talent level on tour is so close that if any product, any ball, any driver, any set or irons or any putter provided even a tiny advantage over anything else the players using it would win every week. And everyone would use it and the pros would buy it with their own money, they would not need to be paid to play it. That's the dirty lttle secret the manufacturers don't want you to know, the performance potential of everything is the same.

With any piece of equipment, fit is everything. Some balls are harder, some are softer. Some spin more, some spin less. Some launch higher, some launch lower. So of course a specific ball might work better FOR YOU and your unique launch conditions, but that ball isn't better. It would be the worst ball imaginable for a player with different launch conditions. All balls the same size and weight. They can't come off the clubface faster than allowed by the rules, so you can't make them springier and keep them legal. Every factor that makes a ball different from another ball, whether its spin rate, firmness, launch angle, etc is a trade-off. There's no such thing as a free lunch and improving one aspect of a balls performance parameters means you sacrifice somewhere else. A ball that spins more will help a good player around the greens, but it flies shorter and hooks/slices more, so that hurts a poor player. A soft ball might help a slower swinger that can't compress a firm one, but that same ball would hurt a guy with higher swing speed. A ball that launches higher will help some players who struggle to get the ball in the air and punish another who hits it too high. A ball that flies high kicks ass downwind and hurts you into the wind. There are no absolutes and nothing is better than anything else, just better or worse for you.

 

[Red Squirrel]

USD $65.99 + $13.93 shipping + $13.05 import charges... That seems expensive no? Pretty sure I got a bigger bag of balls at Canadian Tire for cheaper. I wanted to golf this year and never ended up going lol. Mind you the Canadian Tire ones were basically old random recovered balls but for someone that's not professional that's more than good enough.

I guess the idea is that they're bright yellow so you don't lose them as easily.

 

[Carson Dyle]

A coworker of mine had a house on the 11th fairway of a local course. We'd go over for cookouts every once in a while and it was like being out on a bombing range. "Incoming!" Their kids would fill buckets and buckets with stray balls every summer. They regularly lost cedar shingles and the occasional window from the house. It was nuts. I think the kids sold the balls.

 

[Muse]

I guess the idea is that they're bright yellow so you don't lose them as easily.

Yeah, that and the fact that if your partner uses a white ball or you encounter a white ball close to where you think yours might be (say, a ball lost in the rough) you know without looking that that ball isn't yours. I also make equator marks with a black Sharpie and ball marking tool. Those marks help a lot to ID my ball without having to look for manufacturer and number IDs (e.g. 1, 3, 5, etc.), also I use those Sharpie marks sometimes on the greens when setting down my cleaned ball and after making my read, like a lot of the pros do these days. Anything that makes the game easier and less confusing helps on the course.

I bought (ordered) a push cart last night to replace my ~15 year old Bagboy Lite pull cart, which I have had to repair many times in many ways. I think the new push cart will help my game significantly, just the improved ergonomics.

I'm really glad I started playing regularly again this year. I'm a lot stronger and more fit already... I walk a hilly course multiple times/week. Rains are coming (who knows when?) and I'll likely only do occasional range and practice greens work for several months. Well, I keep my putter in the kitchen and pick it up sometimes and practice my putting stroke ... you know, like Johnny Carson used to with an imaginary putter on his show! I've had that putter since I bought it at the pro shop on my home course in 1965 or so, the only putter I've ever owned (a Bullseye). BTW, the last time my putter struck a golf ball was a ~20 footer for birdie!

 

[Muse]

A coworker of mine had a house on the 11th fairway of a local course. We'd go over for cookouts every once in a while and it was like being out on a bombing range. "Incoming!" Their kids would fill buckets and buckets with stray balls every summer. They regularly lost cedar shingles and the occasional window from the house. It was nuts. I think the kids sold the balls.

Sounds dangerous. I played a round last week and my partners brought up the woman who lost an eye at the Ryder Cup a couple weeks ago to an errant drive. I'd heard of an accident, didn't realize her eye had been "exploded." We were on the 17th tee and had just covered our heads when someone on the 16th tee hollered "fore." The ball hit the ground right between us. My home course wasn't designed, really. They took what they had in terms of terrain in creating the course. That was the 1920's, I doubt they even had bulldozers back then. The 17th tee is one of the most dangerous.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yikes I never really thought a golf ball could take out an eye, but I guess it could, it will be hitting with quite a lot of velocity and it's small enough that it will hit the eye ball itself and not the eye socket. I feel I need to wear safety glasses if I go golfing now lol.

 

[destrekor]

USD $65.99 + $13.93 shipping + $13.05 import charges... That seems expensive no?

Um, where did you get those numbers?

 

[Muse]

The thing about golf balls is that they're built down to a legal spec. It's not a case of manufacturers trying to outdo each other, they hit the performance ceiling about 15 years ago and while they *could* make balls better they're not allowed to. So EVERYONE is pretty much bunched up terms of performance. Titleist used to have an advantage in the early 2000's when the ProV1 was new and other brands were using balata, but that day is long long long gone. That's why the Costco balls caused such a havoc in the market, they are every bit as good as the ProV1, the Srixon Z Star, Callaway Chrome, Taylormade TP5, etc at less than half the price. You could take the Kirkland ball into a US Open and not be sacrificing even 1% performance to the guys using $40+ a dozen "tour" balls. The talent level on tour is so close that if any product, any ball, any driver, any set or irons or any putter provided even a tiny advantage over anything else the players using it would win every week. And everyone would use it and the pros would buy it with their own money, they would not need to be paid to play it. That's the dirty little secret the manufacturers don't want you to know, the performance potential of everything is the same.

With any piece of equipment, fit is everything. Some balls are harder, some are softer. Some spin more, some spin less. Some launch higher, some launch lower. So of course a specific ball might work better FOR YOU and your unique launch conditions, but that ball isn't better. It would be the worst ball imaginable for a player with different launch conditions. All balls the same size and weight. They can't come off the clubface faster than allowed by the rules, so you can't make them springier and keep them legal. Every factor that makes a ball different from another ball, whether its spin rate, firmness, launch angle, etc is a trade-off. There's no such thing as a free lunch and improving one aspect of a balls performance parameters means you sacrifice somewhere else. A ball that spins more will help a good player around the greens, but it flies shorter and hooks/slices more, so that hurts a poor player. A soft ball might help a slower swinger that can't compress a firm one, but that same ball would hurt a guy with higher swing speed. A ball that launches higher will help some players who struggle to get the ball in the air and punish another who hits it too high. A ball that flies high kicks ass downwind and hurts you into the wind. There are no absolutes and nothing is better than anything else, just better or worse for you.

Yeah, I don't tinker with my equipment much, far less than most guys who are "serious" about their game. My latest club acquisition was summer of 2011 when I added 3 slighly used Taylormade "woods," including a rescue club, having heard a lot about how much it helped out of the rough... that was by virtue of commentary on pro golf telecasts (which I haunt regularly when they are on OTA TV... I don't get Golf Channel). Nothing this weekend... I suppose I could watch one of the tournaments I haven't erased from my hard drive.

My driver is a Taylormade Burner SuperFast Driver 10.5°, Length Standard, Regular, Graphite, Taylor Made Matrix Ozik X-Con 4.8. I figure that getting a different driver isn't going to help me as much as working out my swing mechanics! I replaced the grip for I guess the 2nd time a couple months ago (in my home workroom). I don't hit the ball as high as most other guys with my driver (and probably other clubs). I see guys using 9.5 degree drivers who hit the ball a lot higher than I do. I can get a higher trajectory when I think about it, as long as I don't catch the ball on the lower part of the club face.

That's why the Costco balls caused such a havoc in the market...

I don't remember seeing them... in the store or on the course. Well, I haven't checked out what they have. I have seen and bought golf gloves at Costco. The first time I was very pleased, the price was right, I got 3 in the pack, I believe. The next time I bought them there (XL, my hands are pretty big, although I'm only 5'10" these days), the gloves were just too small and I had to return them. I could use more gloves now but don't know where to get them, so I'm using what I have. I wash them in the kitchen sink.

 

[ImpulsE69]

My guess is that was the runt, and the rest picked on him during the shipping process. Or they fed on him to stay alive. Those golf balls can be fiesty.

 

[Muse]

My guess is that was the runt, and the rest picked on him during the shipping process. Or they fed on him to stay alive. Those golf balls can be fiesty.

Maybe the seller will agree with you. Here's what he said in reply to my complaint:

"Please send me a picture of the balls. I?m certain I sent 24 but just want to make sure I didn?t accidentally send AVX balls. "

So, I replied and included the picture you see in the OP here and said he'd obviously "spaced it."

 

[Red Squirrel]

Um, where did you get those numbers?

The ebay link.

 

[destrekor]

He linked to a listing that ended, so it is redirecting you to a "similar item."

I'm redirected to "24 AAA Titleist NXT Tour S YELLOW Used Golf Balls (3A) - FREE SHIPPING"
which is $18 for 2 dozen with free shipping. What you shared is also for 3 dozen and you are factoring in international shipping costs.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Oh I see yeah I guess that would make sense. Used to ordering from ebay "stores" and not single listings so kinda forgot about that.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I don't remember seeing them... in the store or on the course. Well, I haven't checked out what they have. I have seen and bought golf gloves at Costco. The first time I was very pleased, the price was right, I got 3 in the pack, I believe. The next time I bought them there (XL, my hands are pretty big, although I'm only 5'10" these days), the gloves were just too small and I had to return them. I could use more gloves now but don't know where to get them, so I'm using what I have. I wash them in the kitchen sink.

They're called the Kirkland Signature. Costco just sort of dipped their toe into the water and didn't commit to golf balls. They wanted to test the market and bought some overstock 4-piece urethane balls from Nassau golf in Korea which is where the Snell comes from. It's actually a great ball, every bit as good as the ProV1 or any of the tour level balls from other manufacturers and Costco was selling it at $29.99 for 2 dozen. Once the test results hit the web the golf market went haywire. The balls sold out almost instantly and since Costco had only bought out some overstock without a long term commitment there were no more in the pipeline. They had to go through a lengthy process to arrange a new manufacturing deal to get more and in the down time demand was so high the balls were selling on ebay for $50-$60 per dozen. Costco eventually got things sorted out, got more in and they sold out almost instantly again. Now Costco is buying 2 different models from 2 different sources. They're still buying the 4-piece model from Korea and a different 3-piece model from Taiwan.

The old Kirkland gloves were great, that was another one that was really every bit as good as the best products on the market. Don't know why it disappeared, maybe it didn't sell well. The only gloves I've seen at Costco in the last couple of years were Callaways and they were garbage.

 

[Muse]

The old Kirkland gloves were great, that was another one that was really every bit as good as the best products on the market. Don't know why it disappeared, maybe it didn't sell well. The only gloves I've seen at Costco in the last couple of years were Callaways and they were garbage.

Yeah, I'll confirm that, it was my exact sense of it and I had to wonder why. I suppose Callaway can get stamped on things that aren't so great. I still use their uPro GPS that I bought in 2011. Callaway had bought out the company and they slapped their name on it and managed it going forward but my sense of it is that they didn't know how to manage what was essentially a technology company and they bungled it and eventually stopped supporting the products (they'd developed an inferior subsequent product release). It's a shame because the uPro is totally solid. Beautiful design and compact. It still does the job for me but there are no more course updates. When they announced a date of no further support people scrambled to download courses (to mollify users at that point they let you download all the courses you wanted for free, although only a limited number can reside on the unit at once... I saved extra ones to computer storage for possible later use). If a new course opens or a course changes their design (new bunkers, take out old bunkers, redesign a green, whatever) the map doesn't reflect the changes. I will continue to be suspicious of them. They may have good products but I have to think their management is anything but top notch.

 

[Muse]

Yikes I never really thought a golf ball could take out an eye, but I guess it could, it will be hitting with quite a lot of velocity and it's small enough that it will hit the eye ball itself and not the eye socket. I feel I need to wear safety glasses if I go golfing now lol.

I don't wear safety glasses (duh), but do wear my distance glasses, which would, I'd think, afford some protection in the event that a golf ball zeroed in on my eye at 150 mph. I also wear a wide brimmed hat, not a baseball cap. I do that partly to reduce glare, partly to reduce exposure to sun. A baseball cap only shades your eyes and forehead (top of head too, obviously). A wrap around hat shields your ears, neck and more of your face. That would also deflect a golf ball some, I'd think.

 

[Darwin333]

USD $65.99 + $13.93 shipping + $13.05 import charges... That seems expensive no? Pretty sure I got a bigger bag of balls at Canadian Tire for cheaper. I wanted to golf this year and never ended up going lol. Mind you the Canadian Tire ones were basically old random recovered balls but for someone that's not professional that's more than good enough.

I guess the idea is that they're bright yellow so you don't lose them as easily.

Yeah yeah, we've all seen the video of not only you giving to the black squirrel but taking it from the same, male, black squirrel. We don't need constant reminders.

 

[Muse]

After sending the seller that picture you see in the OP, he responds so:

I understand you frustration completely and I’m really sorry I must have spaced it. I unfortunately am out of mint NXT Tour S balls. What can I do to not earn a negative feedback from you? Want to work this out best I can. I can issue a full refund if you’d like to send them back.

I'm wondering what to respond. I could say, "sure, furnish me with a shipping label and I'll send them back." Or, I could say "well, what do you have? 11 quality bright yellow balls?"

Edit: I decided to respond with the 2nd replay, basically, well, whatcha got?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Yeah, I'll confirm that, it was my exact sense of it and I had to wonder why. I suppose Callaway can get stamped on things that aren't so great..

Completely true. The same thing that companies like Vice and Snell do, buying re-branded products with their name stamped on the major manufacturers do too. Very few make their own gloves and none make their own bags, it's cheaper to buy generics. Some mid-majors like Wilson don't make their own balls. And back when Nike had a golf division for years and years they didn't make their own balls, they were buying balls from Precept and having the Nike logo stamped on the cover. It was only in the last few years of Nike Golf that they designed their own balls. The Tour and RZN series were their own, everything before that was a re-badged Precept. And the Nike staff players almost universally hated the RZN balls, When they brought that to market and the players were wearing the RZN logo on their caps they kept making the Tour and Tour D balls for their staff players to use.

If you get right down to it the only part of a club that the manufacturers design is the head. They buy the grips and shafts from other sources and have the things assembled in China where the heads are actually made. And even that is kind of questionable these days. There are only so many ways you can make a clubhead where it will work okay, sell okay and obey the very picky rules of club design. Most clubs are not unique designs, they're retreads of older heads with new graphics and colors and new marketing buzzwords. By FAR the most popular putter design among both pros and amateurs is a copy of the Ping Anser which came out in 1966. Here we are more than 50 years later and golf has still been unable to come up with a design that outsells an Anser clone.

 

[Muse]

Completely true. The same thing that companies like Vice and Snell do, buying re-branded products with their name stamped on the major manufacturers do too. Very few make their own gloves and none make their own bags, it's cheaper to buy generics. Some mid-majors like Wilson don't make their own balls. And back when Nike had a golf division for years and years they didn't make their own balls, they were buying balls from Precept and having the Nike logo stamped on the cover. It was only in the last few years of Nike Golf that they designed their own balls. The Tour and RZN series were their own, everything before that was a re-badged Precept. And the Nike staff players almost universally hated the RZN balls, When they brought that to market and the players were wearing the RZN logo on their caps they kept making the Tour and Tour D balls for their staff players to use.

If you get right down to it the only part of a club that the manufacturers design is the head. They buy the grips and shafts from other sources and have the things assembled in China where the heads are actually made. And even that is kind of questionable these days. There are only so many ways you can make a clubhead where it will work okay, sell okay and obey the very picky rules of club design. Most clubs are not unique designs, they're retreads of older heads with new graphics and colors and new marketing buzzwords. By FAR the most popular putter design among both pros and amateurs is a copy of the Ping Anser which came out in 1966. Here we are more than 50 years later and golf has still been unable to come up with a design that outsells an Anser clone.

Do you like that putter? I took a series of lessons from a pro who told me I should get a different putter. She said my Bullseye sucks because it's too hard to consistently make a solid strike. I think she probably had something there. I've worked hard to gain that consistent solid strike with it but I do miss-hit putts with some frequency. However, I'm a pretty good putter... a lot of the time. I'd like to make that a whole lot more of the time. She mentioned Scotty Cameron and Oddysey and another I can't remember right now.

I can see where that Ping would add some consistency. If you miss the sweet spot (left or right) by a 1/4 inch, even a 1/2 inch the extra weight at the edges will tend to cancel out the effect and the ball will not go as much off-line (in terms of degrees) than with a solid faced putter like mine. I have a small piece of yellow tape on top of my putter blade to show exactly where I want the ball to hit the blade and that helps but it's not a mechanical advantage, just a visual one.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Do you like that putter? I took a series of lessons from a pro who told me I should get a different putter. She said my Bullseye sucks because it's too hard to consistently make a solid strike. I think she probably had something there. I've worked hard to gain that consistent solid strike with it but I do miss-hit putts with some frequency. However, I'm a pretty good putter... a lot of the time. I'd like to make that a whole lot more of the time. She mentioned Scotty Cameron and Oddysey and another I can't remember right now.

I can see where that Ping would add some consistency. If you miss the sweet spot (left or right) by a 1/4 inch, even a 1/2 inch the extra weight at the edges will tend to cancel out the effect and the ball will not go as much off-line (in terms of degrees) than with a solid faced putter like mine. I have a small piece of yellow tape on top of my putter blade to show exactly where I want the ball to hit the blade and that helps but it's not a mechanical advantage, just a visual one.

I don't personally like the Anser, but that has to do with the hosel. When I started the game I used a Bullseye copy for a year and then got a Spalding T.P.M. which was a Wilson 8802 copy. Neither of those putters had any offset at all, so my stroke works without offset and my eyes are much more comfortable not seeing all that offset. The original Anser has that plumbers neck hosel with a full shaft offset and that's a great design for most it doesn't work for me and the way my stroke evolved. So I play what is essentially an Anser head on a non-offset hosel so that it sets up square. Examples here, the putter on the left has no offset, the one in the middle is half-shaft offset and the one on the right is full shaft. My putter is like the head shape on the right, but the hosel on the left.

Your pro was right, a Bullseye sucks. Even pros don't use them anymore, zero forgiveness and terrible speed/direction control on even the slightest mishit. Amateurs should use a heel/toe weighted model like an Anser as a minimum and most would be better served going to a high MOI model like a mallet. Camerons are junk, they're just tarted up copies of other putters with insanely high pricetags because Titleist pays tour pros a shitload to use them. Same shape, same materials, same weighting as other brands, 3-4 times the price. You can buy a real Ping Anser for $100, a Scotty Anser copy for $400+ or walk into a Walmart and buy a Dunlop Anser copy for $20 and they'll all be pretty much exactly the same except for the graphics.