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I need to undelete files from a Smartmedia disk. Suggestions?

Kogan

Golden Member
Hey guys. It looks like I accidently deleted a bunch of pictures from a smartmedia disk and I can't seem to get them back. I've tried R-undelete, Recover4all, file scavenger adn fast file undelete and they all either don't find anything or can't read removable drives.

It looks like I may be out of luck, but If anyone has any suggestions, they would be very appreciated 🙂
 
Sorry, Smartmedia cards are EEPROM, (electronicly eraseable programable read only memory). When you write data to a SM card it uses a transistor to push electrons through the membrane which then allows current to flow through the cell to store data. When you erase something the card reader applys charge to the erase circuit which then puts the electron back on its original side thereby erasing the cell. With your hard drive or a diskette or other magnetic media, when you delete a file the cell that the data is stored in is not removed (unless you use a program specificly to do this) instead it is flagged as empty so that the HD can write to that cell in the future. When you use an undelete program it goes in and changes the flag back to say that that data segment is in use, and then it can be read again. Thats why if you wait a long time before undeleting the file can be unrecoverable because the HD has already written to those sectors. Since the SM card removes the cell totaly you can not recover any data that has been deleted. Sorry but they are gone.:frown:
 
Originally posted by: MegaloManiaK
Sorry, Smartmedia cards are EEPROM, (electronicly eraseable programable read only memory). When you write data to a SM card it uses a transistor to push electrons through the membrane which then allows current to flow through the cell to store data. When you erase something the card reader applys charge to the erase circuit which then puts the electron back on its original side thereby erasing the cell. With your hard drive or a diskette or other magnetic media, when you delete a file the cell that the data is stored in is not removed (unless you use a program specificly to do this) instead it is flagged as empty so that the HD can write to that cell in the future. When you use an undelete program it goes in and changes the flag back to say that that data segment is in use, and then it can be read again. Thats why if you wait a long time before undeleting the file can be unrecoverable because the HD has already written to those sectors. Since the SM card removes the cell totaly you can not recover any data that has been deleted. Sorry but they are gone.:frown:

good explanation, that is how I understand it as well but then whats the deal with places like this that advertise recovery? Maybe some newer cards don't totally destroy a cell as you say. Maybe they just flag it for a rewrite like HD's? Or maybe there is still a electron trace signature there or something to that effect.

http://www.flash-card-recovery.co.uk/
http://www.mcsx.co.uk/datarec.htm
 
Wow, i had no idea you could do that, maby i don't understand it completely, from the design of the cards i can see no way you could recover data but if they say they can then its a mystery to me. You may be on to something though, maby some of the cards use a system that would be recoverable. But i was under the impression that when you use the higher voltage to erase the cells it would reset all the control gates back to 0. Oh well, hope it works out.
 
yea but to me it looks like the electron microscope methods that they use for HD's. The extremely high costs would reflect that too. I am just as baffled as you are since it is a form of static memory... This is a good topic for the megabrainy forum... I mean the Highly Technical forums.
 
Actually it is possible to recover the files. It all depends on how the camera or reader deletes the file.

My camera deletes files the way Windows OSes do with FAT partitions. It blanks out the first character of the name in the FAT and then marks that files sectors as being free. Undelete works just fine in this case.

Just as a hardrive or floppy disk, if the disk has been formatted for any other files have been written to the card then those files are gone for good.
 
Hmmm, thats really interesting, I always considered the HD method to be a time saver, i.e. instead of clearing the data just make it ready to be overwritten. But the design of the card doesn't use any platters or arms so it should be just as easy to erase all of a cell as it is to erase part of one and in this case designing a system to delete just the first part would seem to be harder. I suppose you learn something new everyday. As far as the microscope comment, i was thinking something along those lines, that maby you could see a difference between a cell that had recently been holding data and one that hadn't, but the process would seem to be amazingly complicated, and expensive as you said. I think im going to go read up on data recovery now, sounds interesting.
 
Just as a hardrive or floppy disk, if the disk has been formatted for any other files have been written to the card then those files are gone for good.

This is not entireley true since most people just quick format. Quick formats just rewrite the disk header and create a new directory/partition structure. The areas with the old files are just set to be written over. Only a "zero all data" or "low level" format completely wipes all data. It literally goes over every sector and sets everything back to 0. Thats also why a long format can take several hours whereas a quick format only takes a few seconds to minutes. You cannot recover data via normal means like end user software from long low level formats but you can easily recover data from quick formats. Luckily most people never do long formats.

As for the electron microscope method. I don't know a whole lot about it but I do know that they can detect traces of data patterns from the platters themselves. Therefore even if a drive that has been smashed and the read mechaism is broke, they can still recover data by directly reading off the platters. There are different methods they use but I think that is he most extensive while other methods may be not much more complex then what a tech would do at an office. Prices for the electron microscope methods can run into enourmous costs like $2000-4000 per gigabyte of data. It may have gotten cheaper since the last time I looked into it, but access to a SET microscope is never cheap.
 
Originally posted by: dakels
Just as a hardrive or floppy disk, if the disk has been formatted for any other files have been written to the card then those files are gone for good.

This is not entireley true since most people just quick format. Quick formats just rewrite the disk header and create a new directory/partition structure. The areas with the old files are just set to be written over. Only a "zero all data" or "low level" format completely wipes all data. It literally goes over every sector and sets everything back to 0. Thats also why a long format can take several hours whereas a quick format only takes a few seconds to minutes. You cannot recover data via normal means like end user software from long low level formats but you can easily recover data from quick formats. Luckily most people never do long formats.

As for the electron microscope method. I don't know a whole lot about it but I do know that they can detect traces of data patterns from the platters themselves. Therefore even if a drive that has been smashed and the read mechaism is broke, they can still recover data by directly reading off the platters. There are different methods they use but I think that is he most extensive while other methods may be not much more complex then what a tech would do at an office. Prices for the electron microscope methods can run into enourmous costs like $2000-4000 per gigabyte of data. It may have gotten cheaper since the last time I looked into it, but access to a SET microscope is never cheap.

Sorry, what i was trying to say is that if you delete a file and then the HD writes new data where the old data was the old data is gone, so the longer you use the drive after deleting a file the more chance that that physical space will be used again - depending of course on how much space there is to start with and what kind of stuff you are using it for in the mean time.
 
Originally posted by: MegaloManiaK
Sorry, Smartmedia cards are EEPROM, (electronicly eraseable programable read only memory). When you write data to a SM card it uses a transistor to push electrons through the membrane which then allows current to flow through the cell to store data. When you erase something the card reader applys charge to the erase circuit which then puts the electron back on its original side thereby erasing the cell. With your hard drive or a diskette or other magnetic media, when you delete a file the cell that the data is stored in is not removed (unless you use a program specificly to do this) instead it is flagged as empty so that the HD can write to that cell in the future. When you use an undelete program it goes in and changes the flag back to say that that data segment is in use, and then it can be read again. Thats why if you wait a long time before undeleting the file can be unrecoverable because the HD has already written to those sectors. Since the SM card removes the cell totaly you can not recover any data that has been deleted. Sorry but they are gone.:frown:

But I doubt the filesystem driver tells the card to write zeroes to a file when it gets deleted. Assuming it is using fat, then the file should still be there, as fat is fat, regardless of the media type. AFAIK the media driver and the filesystem driver are pretty ignorant of each other in that sense. Now, if it was ram, and bits weren't persistent unless you explicitly tell them to stay persistent, then I guess the file would be gone, but ram and flash are quite different.
 
one thing I am not sure about is how deleted are old files. I've heard that it may take several rewrites to low level formats completely remove any detectable trace of the old data. And by detectable, I don't mean with some undelete program, we're talking electron microscopes. Again, not something I know much about, just what I've heard.
 
Hey guys, I didn't check the thread for a while.. It looks like they can be undeleted. They're saved in a FAT12 filesystem and I've donloaded demo versions of Active@ Undelete and FinalRecovery that can show the files I erased, but won't recover files over 10k or so until I register them 🙂
They're not too important so I'll keep looking for a progam like those that I don't need to register. If anyone finds one, be sure to post it here.

Thanks!
 
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