I need to convince my corporation to not switch to Vista

[Saint Nick]

I work for a fortune 200 company and need to convince them to not switch over to Windows Vista. Is there any place I can get information about Microsoft's next operating system? I know why I want to convince the company to not switch, but where can I get information to back this up? There is a lot of situational stuff in our company because we make a lot of our own software for our use that doesn't work in Vista (VB6 compatibility issues).

Anyways, how do you think I should go about doing this? I was thinking of doing some benchmarks, present compatibility issues, and things of the like. What else should I bring up? I plan on making a technical document in which whoever provides good ideas will at least get credit in my paper.

 

[Nothinman]

There is a lot of situational stuff in our company because we make a lot of our own software for our use that doesn't work in Vista (VB6 compatibility issues).

Why isn't that a good enough reason? If the software that your business needs to run doesn't run on an OS why would it even be considered? Add in the cost of retraining users and technicians and it shouldn't be difficult to convince people to hold off for awhile.

 

[Saint Nick]

I think one of the big things is that Windows XP is going to lose support eventually. That is what our company is more worried about, I think. I have had one guy here tell me XP will lose support in 2010 and another guy tell me it would be in 2014. If it really is 2014, then I think I'll have a substantially stronger case against Vista.

And to answer your question, I have no idea. We have several development tools that simply do not work in Vista, likewise with our apps. We have the owners of these products come into our test lab to test their software in Vista, only to find that it needs to be tricked into working, which can ultimately lead into other problems. This is one of possibly many reasons why Vista should not be implemented here.

 

[Nothinman]

http://support.microsoft.com/l...en-us&p1=3223&x=8&y=11

According to that mainstream support ends in 2009 and extended support in 2014.

This is one of possibly many reasons why Vista should not be implemented here.

Not yet you mean. If you're sticking with Windows then you'll need to move away from XP eventually.

 

[Snapster]

XP support should officially end in 2010 except for a few loopholes, however security updates will still be going for another few years.

FYI, If your VB apps don't work with Vista they wont work with Windows 7 either so it's best that you start porting them now.

 

[Saint Nick]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
http://support.microsoft.com/l...en-us&p1=3223&x=8&y=11

According to that mainstream support ends in 2009 and extended support in 2014.

This is one of possibly many reasons why Vista should not be implemented here.

Not yet you mean. If you're sticking with Windows then you'll need to move away from XP eventually.

Right, but what I'm getting at is essentially "skipping" an OS. Going from XP to Windows 7. Staying on the XP boat until Windows 7 comes out and then riding it out on the extended support. That way we'll get all of the security updates. Once Windows 7 is available through beta programs, we can start testing and developing for it and then move over to it smoothly from XP to Windows 7 once we finish all of our hardware and software testing and developing with Windows 7.

 

[Saint Nick]

Originally posted by: Snapster
XP support should officially end in 2010 except for a few loopholes, however security updates will still be going for another few years.

FYI, If your VB apps don't work with Vista they wont work with Windows 7 either so it's best that you start porting them now.

We don't have a copy of Windows 7 to test or develop on yet ... Won't be able to do that until the betas are available (I'm guessing).

 

[Nothinman]

Once Windows 7 is available through beta programs, we can start testing and developing for it and then move over to it smoothly from XP to Windows 7 once we finish all of our hardware and software testing and developing with Windows 7.

I'm curious what you think Win7 will do for you that Vista won't? And chances are that if you start the migration of your custom apps with Vista there won't be a migration to be made when you go from Vista->Win7.

 

[Saint Nick]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Once Windows 7 is available through beta programs, we can start testing and developing for it and then move over to it smoothly from XP to Windows 7 once we finish all of our hardware and software testing and developing with Windows 7.

I'm curious what you think Win7 will do for you that Vista won't? And chances are that if you start the migration of your custom apps with Vista there won't be a migration to be made when you go from Vista->Win7.

I thought Windows 7 was going to be a new kernel, so apps would have to be re-worked anyways.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: NightDarker

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Once Windows 7 is available through beta programs, we can start testing and developing for it and then move over to it smoothly from XP to Windows 7 once we finish all of our hardware and software testing and developing with Windows 7.

I'm curious what you think Win7 will do for you that Vista won't? And chances are that if you start the migration of your custom apps with Vista there won't be a migration to be made when you go from Vista->Win7.

I thought Windows 7 was going to be a new kernel, so apps would have to be re-worked anyways.

No.

 

[Nothinman]

I thought Windows 7 was going to be a new kernel, so apps would have to be re-worked anyways.

Nope, the chances of MS throwing away anything completely and starting over are virtually zero. Especially the kernel since that would only have a minimal affect on userland apps, just look at how things like Gnome run fine on Solaris, FreeBSD, Linux, etc.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: NightDarker

We don't have a copy of Windows 7 to test or develop on yet ... Won't be able to do that until the betas are available (I'm guessing).

Yes you do. It is called Windows Vista. Microsoft has already verified that if it works on Vista, it will work on 7 because Vista is being used as the base for the operating system.

I honestly don't see the logic of trying to convince your company to hold off on upgrading to Vista when they are going to eventually have to upgrade to it. Smart IT people would be doing compatibility testing now and make the changes needed for the move instead of trying to stick with a dying platform.

 

[Saint Nick]

Fair enough guys, thanks for the info!

Soonerproud:
I am by no means a "dumb IT person", if that is what you are implying.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: NightDarker
Fair enough guys, thanks for the info!

Soonerproud:
I am by no means a "dumb IT person", if that is what you are implying.

No, just a little uninformed is all. The fact you come here to ask the question proves you are not dumb.

I have met a bunch of dumb IT people that have never tried Vista or even started compatibility testing.

 

[Nothinman]

Yes you do. It is called Windows Vista. Microsoft has already verified that if it works on Vista, it will work on 7 because Vista is being used as the base for the operating system.

Maybe right now but as Win7 development happens and the systems diverge things will start breaking, it's just the cost of progress. Technically XP was the base for Vista too but enough changed that there was a good deal of breakage.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Maybe right now but as Win7 development happens and the systems diverge things will start breaking, it's just the cost of progress. Technically XP was the base for Vista too but enough changed that there was a good deal of breakage.

Microsoft made it clear they are not breaking compatibility with Windows 7. It's kernel is the same one used in Vista and all the driver changes made in Vista will be left untouched in Win 7 according to Microsoft.

Windows FAQ Winsupersite

 

[Nothinman]

Microsoft made it clear they are not breaking compatibility with Windows 7. It's kernel is the same one used in Vista and all the driver changes made in Vista will be left untouched in Win 7 according to Microsoft.

MS makes lots of things clear only to change them a year later when it becomes clear that it won't really happen. And any kernel and driver changes are irrelevant to the OP since he's talking about userland VB6 apps.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
MS makes lots of things clear only to change them a year later when it becomes clear that it won't really happen. And any kernel and driver changes are irrelevant to the OP since he's talking about userland VB6 apps.

So you are going to ignore the fact that 2000 and XP were completely compatible? This is exactly what Microsoft has said they are going to do with the transition from Vista to Win 7.

BTW

Vista is based on Windows Server 2003 and not XP.

 

[Nothinman]

So you are going to ignore the fact that 2000 and XP were completely compatible? This is exactly what Microsoft has said they are going to do with the transition from Vista to Win 7.

"Completely compatible" is a bit of a stretch from what I remember.

Vista is based on Windows Server 2003 and not XP.

And Win2K3 was based on XP, no matter how you look at it they share a common code base.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I see Vista as basically the growing pain involved with switching over to 64bit. Moving over to Windows 7 from Vista should be a smoother transition, so either start now with Vista or delay the pain until Windows 7

 

[corkyg]

If I wanted to influence top managers, I would focus on cost - especially these days!

Compare the total cost of switching Vista to staying as is until the next generation (7?) comes out.

 

[Nothinman]

I see Vista as basically the growing pain involved with switching over to 64bit.

Except the two aren't related at all. The growing pains are purely XP->Vista pains, if you install the 64-bit version it might be slightly worse depending on your hardware's driver situation but that's about it.

 

[flexy]

thinking about any new Windows OS makes me shudder - the point is we dont KNOW whether Win7 actually will be better than Vista. It could even be worse.

I see your point certainly and agree with the "skip thing".....bet that once Vista is "ripe" and ALL copatibility issues are finally gone Win7 will arrive.

You would need a URGENT reason to actually switch to Vista now...and my question is whether there actually is this urgent reason, and you already mentioned incompabilities..so why actually would you even consider switching to Vista if there is NO urgent reason?

I would actually hold off, and then jump at the first best oportunity once Win7 betas are out to learn and support the new OS...and prepare as much as possible in regards to Win7 so that you're ready once Win7 goes retail.

 

[flexy]

as to answer your main question:

Isn't it all about ROI, return of investment?

How much would it cost to switch to Vista...how much would it cost to tweak and rewrite applications for compatibility...and what would the final resulting ROI for all that effort be? What would you "lose" not switching to Vista....and how feasable is it to keep the current state and just prepare fow Win7. How would the situation look in 2 years...assuming Win7 is not out yet...you still on XP and supporting XP only? Would it be a problem and can you see problems NOT having switched to Vista, would it maybe even mean a loss for your company...would it make more sense to "force" support for Vista now....put many man-hours in development...regardless whether Vista will be obselete soon thereafter?

You have to make a list like this and actually go through this...look at your company and customers and THEN come to a conclusion what to do best.

 

[Chiropteran]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I see Vista as basically the growing pain involved with switching over to 64bit.

Except the two aren't related at all. The growing pains are purely XP->Vista pains, if you install the 64-bit version it might be slightly worse depending on your hardware's driver situation but that's about it.

Considering Vista will be the first widespread consumer 64 bit OS, I can't disagree with you more.

XP64 was a joke, and even today is poorly supported with drivers. Vista 64 is on par with Vista 32 for driver support, so anyone who switches to Vista could simultaneously switch to 64-bit without any additional pain.