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I need some help overclocking on my 3800+ X2 and Epox 9NPA+

blurredvision

blurredvision

Lifer
Hey guys. I've checked out Zebo's overclocking guide, but I'll be honest in saying that I don't understand too much of it. I used to understand the whole concept of overclocking, as it was FSB multiplied by CPU multiplier. But with the A64 and on-die memory controller, and the hyper transport bus, I'm kind of confused.

Hopefully, you guys can explain some of the abbreviations in his thread. First up, LDT. I have no idea what that is. Next is HTT. I'm assuming it means hypertransport, but why the two T's? Next is SPD.

Here is my setup:
- X2 3800+ (2.0GHz default) - Toledo core
- 2x512 Buffalo PC3200 CH-5
- Epox 9NPA+Ultra
- Zalman 7000 AlCu HSF

I also need some help understanding the limited options in my BIOS. First up, CPU Frequency. I think this is the FSB, correct? I can adjust this option 1MHz at a time, up to god knows what. Next is PCIE Clock. What could I use this option for? The Cool n' Quiet option is next, but I keep it disabled. Next is the CPU Clock Ratio. I'm guessing this is the multiplier, but I can only set it to 1 through 10. Is this normal, or should I be able to raise the multiplier a bit higher than 10? The default is 10. Then I've got my CPU, DIMM, and chipset voltages.

Right now, I have the CPU Frequency set to 225MHz, and I'm running at 2.25GHz right now with no problems whatsoever (haven't primed it yet, though). It seems like everyone is easily getting 2.4GHz with the Toledo cores, but I've tried a 240 CPU Frequency, to no avail. I've not touched the voltage, which is reading around 1.4.

After all this jibberish, here are some questions:

1.) The hypertransport is set at 1000MHz. How is it related to the speed of my DDR chips?
2.) Have I done everything right so far in overclocking? Am I limited in overclock because of my memory?
3.) If I up the voltage, might I get a better overclock?
4.) If I have done everything correctly, and my overclock is stuck where it's at, what might I do to get a better overclock? Better RAM?

I am so sorry to post something like this, but I really want to understand how this works. I feel like my knowledge is holding me back, because I'm not confident at all in what I'm doing in the BIOS. I thank anyone who can explain this to me.

EDIT/UPDATE

I think I can fully understand the concepts of the LDT, HTT, and the use of the mem divider. Fairly simple once you have someone explain it to you 🙂. But here's what I'm looking at. One of my first tests was setting LDT to x4, HTT to 240, and mem divider to 5:6. I have yet to fully complete Zebo's guide, but I was sure my hardware would do the above settings. I boot with no problems at 2.4GHz, but running Prime95 is another story. I'll set up two instances, and have each instance concentrate on one of the cores apiece. One core quits almost immediately, and there's not much I can do to egg it on. Voltage has already been upped to 1.45.

I am also able to boot at LDT X5, HTT 230MHz, mem at 1:1, but I still fail prime tests after around 25-35 minutes, depending on which core it is.

My question now is whether I just got a dud, or if something else is holding me back. My only thought is possibly my power supply. When I upgraded to this new system, I kept my old 20-pin Aspire 500w PSU, which is running all of the specs above, plus a 7800gt, Z-Fi, 2 hdd's, a cd-rom, and about 5 case fans. Is it at all possible that my PSU is holding me back, or is that just wishful thinking? I'm just grabbing at straws now, I think. 🙂

I do appreciate the help.
 
Hypertransport is not related to the DDR. It is related to the HTT or in your case the "cpu frequency". THe LDT multiplier multiplies the "cpu Frequency" by that number. So if your frequency is 200, then the LDT is 5. If you set LDT to 4, you can set the CPU frequency up to 250. If you set it to 3, you can get past 300 CPu frequency. You should generally try to keep the LDT*CPU frequency below 1000, as the Hypertransport does not like to be overclocked.
2) Use the ram divider to help you overclock better. I would aim for something like 2.5 GHZ. This is easily attainible if you set the ram divider to 166 and increase the CPU frequency to 250.
3) Yes you will get a better overclock if you up the voltage. I would try 1.45 Volts.
4) Better cooling will get more more overclocks. Better ram won't do anything to help with overclocking.

How do you ahve 6k posts and be here 5 years and not know this???
 
Originally posted by: Hacp
How do you ahve 6k posts and be here 5 years and not know this???
Click to expand...
No sh!t. 😀 I used to be up on all this knowledge, but haven't really cared to keep up with it over the past 3 or 4 years. I figured I could just hop back in, but it's just making me confused. I'll go over the info you posted here in a little bit and get back with any questions.
Originally posted by: Hacp
Hypertransport is not related to the DDR. It is related to the HTT or in your case the "cpu frequency". THe LDT multiplier multiplies the "cpu Frequency" by that number. So if your frequency is 200, then the LDT is 5. If you set LDT to 4, you can set the CPU frequency up to 250. If you set it to 3, you can get past 300 CPu frequency. You should generally try to keep the LDT*CPU frequency below 1000, as the Hypertransport does not like to be overclocked.
2) Use the ram divider to help you overclock better. I would aim for something like 2.5 GHZ. This is easily attainible if you set the ram divider to 166 and increase the CPU frequency to 250.
3) Yes you will get a better overclock if you up the voltage. I would try 1.45 Volts.
4) Better cooling will get more more overclocks. Better ram won't do anything to help with overclocking.
Click to expand...
First up, what does LDT stand for, and what is it?

Second, what is the ram divider? What might it be labeled as in my BIOS? Plus, what exactly the ram divider do? If I understand what it does, I'll beter understand how to modify it beyond what you've suggested.
 
Just make sure your ldt multiplied by your fsb doesn't exceed 1000, if you're running 240fsb then do 4x ldt, (you get a choice of 1-5x or 200-1000 in 200 increments). The ram divider sets a ratio for the ram speed and fsb speed. For example, with a 166 divider which is 5:6 (166/200). Your ram would be running at 166mhz while your fsb would be at 200. If you're gonna run a 240fsb then you can run that 166 divider and that would equal to a 200mhz ram speed. So you won't be overclocking your ram but just your fsb.
 
Originally posted by: silentvois
Just make sure your ldt multiplied by your fsb doesn't exceed 1000, if you're running 240fsb then do 4x ldt, (you get a choice of 1-5x or 200-1000 in 200 increments). The ram divider sets a ratio for the ram speed and fsb speed. For example, with a 166 divider which is 5:6 (166/200). Your ram would be running at 166mhz while your fsb would be at 200. If you're gonna run a 240fsb then you can run that 166 divider and that would equal to a 200mhz ram speed. So you won't be overclocking your ram but just your fsb.
Click to expand...


Correct.
Though it's not FSB for A64s, it's HTT (Hyper Transport Tunnel).

LDT stands for Lightning Data Transport.
It's now generally referred to as HT multi, meaning Hyper Transport Multiplier.
 
Originally posted by: n7
Originally posted by: silentvois
Just make sure your ldt multiplied by your fsb doesn't exceed 1000, if you're running 240fsb then do 4x ldt, (you get a choice of 1-5x or 200-1000 in 200 increments). The ram divider sets a ratio for the ram speed and fsb speed. For example, with a 166 divider which is 5:6 (166/200). Your ram would be running at 166mhz while your fsb would be at 200. If you're gonna run a 240fsb then you can run that 166 divider and that would equal to a 200mhz ram speed. So you won't be overclocking your ram but just your fsb.
Click to expand...


Correct.
Though it's not FSB for A64s, it's HTT (Hyper Transport Tunnel).

LDT stands for Lightning Data Transport.
It's now generally referred to as HT multi, meaning Hyper Transport Multiplier.
Click to expand...
Awesome. Now I need to know which option in my BIOS is the LDT? My only guess is the CPU Clock Ratio, the one that lets me input anywhere from 1 to 10. However, I tried setting my HTT to 250MHz, and the aforementioned clock ratio to x4, and I booted at 1GHz!

Another question. I understand that the hypertransport does not like to be overclocked, so keep it at or around 1000MHz. Is the point of lowering the LDT so you can get higher HTT? And how does that tie into the ram divider, which I'm still not clear about? Where do I change the ram divider?

EDIT: I found an option called HT Frequency, that lets me set 1-5 in another part of the BIOS. Is this the LDT? Just for kicks, I changed it from the Auto setting to x4, then went into the power section of the BIOS and set the HTT (CPU Frequency in my BIOS) to 250. It refused to boot, so I had to change it back. Am I doing it right?

EDIT2: I searched a couple of reviews around the net on this board, and it looks like my first edit was correct. However, no matter what I set the LDT, or HT Frequency to, it will not boot with the HTT set at 240MHz. I even set the LDT down to 2, and it still would not boot at 240MHz. What am I doing wrong?
 
Originally posted by: blurredvision

Awesome. Now I need to know which option in my BIOS is the LDT? My only guess is the CPU Clock Ratio, the one that lets me input anywhere from 1 to 10. However, I tried setting my HTT to 250MHz, and the aforementioned clock ratio to x4, and I booted at 1GHz!

Another question. I understand that the hypertransport does not like to be overclocked, so keep it at or around 1000MHz. Is the point of lowering the LDT so you can get higher HTT? And how does that tie into the ram divider, which I'm still not clear about? Where do I change the ram divider?

EDIT: I found an option called HT Frequency, that lets me set 1-5 in another part of the BIOS. Is this the LDT? Just for kicks, I changed it from the Auto setting to x4, then went into the power section of the BIOS and set the HTT (CPU Frequency in my BIOS) to 250. It refused to boot, so I had to change it back. Am I doing it right?
Click to expand...

Okay.
CPU clock ratio is your CPU multi. (CPU multi x HTT = clockspeed aka MHz)
It needs to stay at 10x for now.

That HT Frequency option you found is your LDT 🙂
Set it to 3x for HTT speeds above 250, & 4x for HTT speeds below 250.

Now that those two things are understood, you need to find your RAM settings, & set the divider to 166 or 5:6.
Ideally, you should set the RAM divider to 100 (or 1:2) - & all the other RAM settings to AUTO - while finding the CPU speed max, as is mentioned in Zebo's guide.
You can fiddle with RAM timings, etc., later.

Edit to answer your edit 2 question: Your RAM is what you are doing wrong.
Look around & you will find your RAM setting somewhere.
You need to lower the divider.
 
Okay blurred, i found a picture of your bios for you:

Text

Copy 'n paste into browser if link doesn't work.

In that picture, they show Memory Frequency (MHz).
Your divider options should be there.
 
Originally posted by: n7
Okay blurred, i found a picture of your bios for you:

Text

Copy 'n paste into browser if link doesn't work.

In that picture, they show Memory Frequency (MHz).
Your divider options should be there.
Click to expand...
Understood. 😀 I just now booted back into Windows at 2.4GHz with no problems. I have the LDT set at x4, HTT at 240MHz, and the ram divider at 166. Now another question. You say that ideally, the divider should be at 1:2 (100MHz), so why start with 5:6? Is that just part of the process? Is getting your system stable at 1:2 where you want to be?

Also, I know that I'm now running at 2.4GHz, but does lowering my LDT and ram divider hurt my overall performance any? It seems if I'm slowing things down, that can't really be a good thing.

Thanks for your help tonight.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that I just re-read Zebo's guide, and it makes a lot more sense now.
 
The reason i said you should set your RAM divider to 100 was that when attempting to find your max CPU OC, you should remove RAM from the equation.
By setting RAM to 100, it will be running way below its rated speed, meaning it shouldn't affect your OCing progress at all.

Now if you are just planning to lightly OC, then leaving it @ the 166 divider is fine, but as soon as you raise your HTT even higher, your RAM will be running over spec, meaning that it could hinder your OC.

You will want to find your max RAM speed also, so read up on Zebo's guide again 😉

You will notice everything i said mentioned CPU speed being as high as possible, not RAM speed.
That's because with the A64's integrated memory controller, RAM bandwidth doesn't make all that huge of a difference.

To make it simple, CPU speed = most important.
RAM speed (but also timings) = next most important, or secondary.

Worry about CPU speed, then RAM speed later.
 
Hes running CH-5 so he should be good for 220FSB at 2-2-2-5 with 3.1 volts before his ram limits his OC.
 
Here are the basic settings you should go for.

CPU Frequency : 240MHz
LDT/HTT Multiplier : 4x
CPU Ratio Control : DDR333 or 6:5, whichever you BIOS has. They're the same.
PCIE Clock : 100MHz
Cool n' Quiet : Disable
Voltages : Auto
 
The following info is also in the OP.

I think I can fully understand the concepts of the LDT, HTT, and the use of the mem divider. Fairly simple once you have someone explain it to you 🙂. But here's what I'm looking at. One of my first tests was setting LDT to x4, HTT to 240, and mem divider to 5:6. I have yet to fully complete Zebo's guide, but I was sure my hardware would do the above settings. I boot with no problems at 2.4GHz, but running Prime95 is another story. I'll set up two instances, and have each instance concentrate on one of the cores apiece. One core quits almost immediately, and there's not much I can do to egg it on. Voltage has already been upped to 1.45.

I am also able to boot at LDT X5, HTT 230MHz, mem at 1:1, but I still fail prime tests after around 25-35 minutes, depending on which core it is.

My question now is whether I just got a dud, or if something else is holding me back. My only thought is possibly my power supply. When I upgraded to this new system, I kept my old 20-pin Aspire 500w PSU, which is running all of the specs above, plus a 7800gt, Z-Fi, 2 hdd's, a cd-rom, and about 5 case fans. Is it at all possible that my PSU is holding me back, or is that just wishful thinking? I'm just grabbing at straws now, I think. 🙂

I do appreciate the help.
 
hmm,

if you are failing Prime at ldt 5x and HTT 230 then it is not a cpu problem but most like the a ram problem. Do you have a defective memory module? Or maybe your memory cant run at 230 htt (using 1:1) and u might need to loose the timings a bit.

You should try memtest to test my hypothesis.
 
Duh...such a simple problem.

LDT x HTT ~ 1000MHz

If it's more, you're in trouble, most of the time. Reduce your LDT multiplier to 4x or even 3x, just for the sake of testing.
 
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