I need some bike advice.

[RapidSnail]

I've been training for too long on an old, slow, and worn out English racer, and I want/need to get a good bike. Unfortunately, my knowledge on this particular subject is low, and I don't know what I should be looking for.

I have about $1300 to spend, and I know a friend who works at a bike shop whose boss can give me a discount, so I'll be able to get a quality piece of equipment. However, with my spending that much money, I would like to be absolutely positive that what I am getting is top notch for my dollar.

I plan on going down to the bike shop later tonight to look around, and would like to be armed with information so I can root at the bad options. What should I look for in a bike, and what should I avoid? What are the good brands, and what are the bad? For those with the knowledge and experience, would you be so kind as to assist me in this regard? Thank you.

 

[Brutuskend]

What brands do they stock?

The heart of the bike is the FRAME, choose a better frame over higher end components, you can ALWAYS upgrade parts as they wear out down the road.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
What brands do they stock?

The heart of the bike is the FRAME, choose a better frame over higher end components, you can ALWAYS upgrade parts as they wear out down the road.

I don't know what brands they stock as I've never been there before. If I go tonight, I'll reinform you on that.

So what you're saying is to get the best frame possible, and worry not so much about the gears and other parts (even though the are still very important), as I can upgrade them later? What makes a great frame? I know that carbon fiber is the lightest you can get, but what else should I know about?

 

[DaShen]

1300 is good enough for an average bike with a decent grupo. (Shimano & Campagnolo are the two most popular brands of components)

Don't settle for a 105 grupo if you want Shimano (go only for Ultegra or Dura Ace). Chances are for $1300, you will get a Ultegra-105 mix.
Campy's are more expensive but some people prefer them
http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/Campy_vs_Shimano.htm

Don't go for anything under Chorus with the Campy line.

Also, the new rear cassette speed is 10 speed (meaning 10 cogs on the back to shift through. You can possibly get a 9 speed for cheaper and then get Campy Record or Shimano Dura Ace parts. Also, the more cogs there are, the thinner the cogs are, and the more noticable the wear is over time.

for $1300 expect an Aluminum frame with a carbon fiber fork. You may be able to get carbon fiber seatstays and chainstays, if you know the bike shop owner really well (but I doubt that). You can also go with steel (which is heavier <might equate to slower>, but has a better or softer ride feel to it. Full carbon fiber or titanium is too expensive for $1300.

That is just a small part of it.

If you are training for races, this is the way to go and components to look for with your price range. If you are a commuter, I suggest getting a fixed gear. They are great for training and great for just riding, but not really a road race type bike.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
What brands do they stock?

The heart of the bike is the FRAME, choose a better frame over higher end components, you can ALWAYS upgrade parts as they wear out down the road.

I don't know what brands they stock as I've never been there before. If I go tonight, I'll reinform you on that.

So what you're saying is to get the best frame possible, and worry not so much about the gears and other parts (even though the are still very important), as I can upgrade them later? What makes a great frame? I know that carbon fiber is the lightest you can get, but what else should I know about?

No, although frame is important, with your $1300 price range go for a middle of the road Aluminum frame. Get decent wheels (this is dependant on your riding style and weight). I am about 195 lbs myself and I went with the Easton Orion IIs. I need to lose weight though to really consider myself a good rider (I can only decently climb and that is just because I have massive quads). I would say the OrionII are out of your price range. Shimano R550s are decent training wheels and are decent to ride on. They are in the same grupo as the old 105s. You might be abel to get Neuvations for $400. Good, good wheels for the price. http://www.neuvationcycling.com/

Chances are though, if you go to a LBS (Local Bike Shop). They will not custom a bike for $1300. Components are key to good shifting. I would say if you can get a full Ultegra grupo, you have an extremely close friend. Ultegra-105 is a decent find for components.

**EDIT**
Of course if you are considering, upgrading all the time (buying the parts and putting it together yourself) and keeping the frame and wheels, invest more on the frame and wheels and less on the grupo. But if this is a one time buy. Go with the above suggestions.

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
What brands do they stock?

The heart of the bike is the FRAME, choose a better frame over higher end components, you can ALWAYS upgrade parts as they wear out down the road.

I don't know what brands they stock as I've never been there before. If I go tonight, I'll reinform you on that.

So what you're saying is to get the best frame possible, and worry not so much about the gears and other parts (even though the are still very important), as I can upgrade them later? What makes a great frame? I know that carbon fiber is the lightest you can get, but what else should I know about?

Carbon fiber is light, yes, but if you get a scratch in it it can be a weak spot and cause the frame to crack at that point. Titanium is light and strong and will ride like a steel frame giving you a softer ride. Aluminum is light but stiff which is why the higher end aluminum frames have carbon stays, to give it a softer ride.

Here is a good read on bicycle frame materials.

BTW: I still ride a steel frame. SL SLR and SLX Columbus tubing. Hand made by this guy.

Yeah, it's old school.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Carbon fiber is light, yes, but if you get a scratch in it it can be a weak spot and cause the frame to crack at that point. Titanium is light and strong and will ride like a steel frame giving you a softer ride. Aluminum is light but stiff which is why the higher end aluminum frames have carbon stays, to give it a softer ride.

Here is a good read on bicycle frame materials.

If you can get a Ti road bike (with a decent grupo and wheels) with a good alloy mix, or a good grade Carbon fiber bike (not the ones they sell online, with a good grupo and wheels) for $1300, I will be extremely interested in getting that information.

A average or decent CF bike frame alone will cost at least $1300 (the good ones will be around $2100-2300). A Ti bike upward of $1500, and a good one upward of $3000

**EDIT**
I guess if you get a used Ti bike, you could get a frame alone for $1000-1300. I wouldn't buy a carbon fiber bike used though. Too much chance of it being cracked, or having micro fractures.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: DaShen
1300 is good enough for an average bike with a decent grupo. (Shimano & Campagnolo are the two most popular brands of components)

Don't settle for a 105 grupo if you want Shimano (go only for Ultegra or Dura Ace). Chances are for $1300, you will get a Ultegra-105 mix.
Campy's are more expensive but some people prefer them
http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/Campy_vs_Shimano.htm

Don't go for anything under Chorus with the Campy line.

Also, the new rear cassette speed is 10 speed (meaning 10 cogs on the back to shift through. You can possibly get a 9 speed for cheaper and then get Campy Record or Shimano Dura Ace parts. Also, the more cogs there are, the thinner the cogs are, and the more noticable the wear is over time.

for $1300 expect an Aluminum frame with a carbon fiber fork. You may be able to get carbon fiber seatstays and chainstays, if you know the bike shop owner really well (but I doubt that). You can also go with steel (which is heavier <might equate to slower>, but has a better or softer ride feel to it. Full carbon fiber or titanium is too expensive for $1300.

That is just a small part of it.

If you are training for races, this is the way to go and components to look for with your price range. If you are a commuter, I suggest getting a fixed gear. They are great for training and great for just riding, but not really a road race type bike.

Actually Campy Centaur is a fantastic gruppo - many people actually prefer it to Chorus since it is all-metal rather than being largely carbon fiber. 105 is also fine for 99% of all riders.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: DonVito
Actually Campy Centaur is a fantastic gruppo - many people actually prefer it to Chorus since it is all-metal rather than being largely carbon fiber. 105 is also fine for 99% of all riders.

Agreed, but if he wants a deal on $1300 Ultegra is the way to go. 105 is alright but it doesn't shift all that smooth. But again it is alright (meh, my first bike was a well used Sora grupo )

I think this shift to carbon in components is a little strange myself. You don't shave all that much weight, and metal is better for torque anyways. I guess it is more for looks, and it does shave a little bit of weight. I have never road Campy on a long ride, but I loved the feel of the Records I tried on once.

 

[RapidSnail]

My father said that he might help me out a few hundred dollars on a good bike that will last me years, so I might be able to spend more the $1300 (think $1500-$2000). He's been doing traithlon for a while, (I just started) so he knows how much a good bike helps.

I really do appreciate the help that you guys have given me. However, I'm unfamiliar with most of the terms listed in this thread, so I'll go do some reading .

On a side note, which frame would you guys recommend if price wasn't an option: aluminum, carbon fiber, or titanium?

 

[JinLien]

105 isn't as bad as many people would like to think, because the smoothness between the top 3 Shimano parts are all about the same. The only different is that 105 chain rings are stamped instead of machined (can purchase better chain rings if you think it make a different), and the rest of the 105 components are a hair heavier (components weight isn?t going to make much different on a ride).

I would go with Brutuskend suggestion and get a decent frame and worry the groupo latter. Start with 105 and work your way up if you think the expensive parts will last longer and make you a faster rider. 105 is where it is at if you race because most parts will breaks due to wipe out long before it wear out due to age & usage.

[edit] I have own steel/titanium/aluminum frames, and I prefer steel frame, but I would take the titanium over aluminum frame if steel frame is not a choice.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: DaShen
1300 is good enough for an average bike with a decent grupo. (Shimano & Campagnolo are the two most popular brands of components)

Don't settle for a 105 grupo if you want Shimano (go only for Ultegra or Dura Ace). Chances are for $1300, you will get a Ultegra-105 mix.
Campy's are more expensive but some people prefer them
http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/Campy_vs_Shimano.htm

Don't go for anything under Chorus with the Campy line.

Also, the new rear cassette speed is 10 speed (meaning 10 cogs on the back to shift through. You can possibly get a 9 speed for cheaper and then get Campy Record or Shimano Dura Ace parts. Also, the more cogs there are, the thinner the cogs are, and the more noticable the wear is over time.

for $1300 expect an Aluminum frame with a carbon fiber fork. You may be able to get carbon fiber seatstays and chainstays, if you know the bike shop owner really well (but I doubt that). You can also go with steel (which is heavier <might equate to slower>, but has a better or softer ride feel to it. Full carbon fiber or titanium is too expensive for $1300.

That is just a small part of it.

If you are training for races, this is the way to go and components to look for with your price range. If you are a commuter, I suggest getting a fixed gear. They are great for training and great for just riding, but not really a road race type bike.

Actually Campy Centaur is a fantastic gruppo - many people actually prefer it to Chorus since it is all-metal rather than being largely carbon fiber. 105 is also fine for 99% of all riders.

Agreed, Centaur is excellent and you can buy it online for about $650 for a complete group. Of course, you'd need wheels, seatpost, saddle, handlebar, stem and pedals and of course, a frame...

I bought a steel LeMond Zurich frame on ebay, had it repainted and built it up with a Campy Chorus 9spd and now I have a sub 20lb steel framed road bike that rides like a dream. Here is a pic. I really love riding this bike and haven't been on my carbon fiber LOOK in over a month now. I estimate I have about $2000 into this bike but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
My father said that he might help me out a few hundred dollars on a good bike that will last me years, so I might be able to spend more the $1300 (think $1500-$2000). He's been doing traithlon for a while, (I just started) so he knows how much a good bike helps.

I really do appreciate the help that you guys have given me. However, I'm unfamiliar with most of the terms listed in this thread, so I'll go do some reading .

On a side note, which frame would you guys recommend if price wasn't an option: aluminum, carbon fiber, or titanium?

For me, a GOOD steel frame FTW!
And in most cases it will out last the others. And if it's a top notch frame, the weight difference will be negligible.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
BTW: I still ride a steel frame. SL SLR and SLX Columbus tubing. Hand made by this guy.

Yeah, it's old school.

Yeah, baby! Steel is Real!

My next bike purchase, will probably be a steel fixed gear.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
My father said that he might help me out a few hundred dollars on a good bike that will last me years, so I might be able to spend more the $1300 (think $1500-$2000). He's been doing traithlon for a while, (I just started) so he knows how much a good bike helps.

I really do appreciate the help that you guys have given me. However, I'm unfamiliar with most of the terms listed in this thread, so I'll go do some reading .

On a side note, which frame would you guys recommend if price wasn't an option: aluminum, carbon fiber, or titanium?

Personally, none of the above - steel rides nicer than any of them.

The irony in frame-material choice is that steel and titanium, which is arguably the best all-around material for normal people (it is extraordinarily tough, reasonably light, doesn't rust, and rides very nicely indeed) are now all but unheard of among professional bike racers. Aluminum and CF, which are what essentially all pros ride, are stiff and light, but don't ride as well as steel or ti, and lack the service life of steel and ti.

My nicest road bike is titanium, but I also have a steel bike, and I imagine most of the bikes I buy for the rest of my life will be handbuilt steel. I wouldn't say no to a nice carbon or carbon/ti bike either, however.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
My father said that he might help me out a few hundred dollars on a good bike that will last me years, so I might be able to spend more the $1300 (think $1500-$2000). He's been doing traithlon for a while, (I just started) so he knows how much a good bike helps.

I really do appreciate the help that you guys have given me. However, I'm unfamiliar with most of the terms listed in this thread, so I'll go do some reading .

On a side note, which frame would you guys recommend if price wasn't an option: aluminum, carbon fiber, or titanium?

Depends on your riding style and what type of roads you regularly ride on. If regular US roads, Carbon Fiber is a good option. Titanium is a bit expensive even with a $1500-2000 price range (Think of it as a more expensive and lighter steel, i.e. same cushy ride as steel but lighter). They are slowly starting to use more expensive, rarer bike materials such as magnesium (not rare but extremely hard to process). Aluminum is the average right now. Steel is cheap and a good ride, and witha good alloy can be race worthy if you are a traditionalist.

I would say Carbon Fiber is you have a $1500-2000 price range with a good grupo and decent wheels. I had a friend who got a TCR Carbon Fiber with Ultegra for $1800. Not too shabby.

********************************************

Originally posted by: DonVito
Personally, none of the above - steel rides nicer than any of them.

The irony in frame-material choice is that steel and titanium, which is arguably the best all-around material for normal people (it is extraordinarily tough, reasonably light, doesn't rust, and rides very nicely indeed) are now all but unheard of among professional bike racers. Aluminum and CF, which are what essentially all pros ride, are stiff and light, but don't ride as well as steel or ti, and lack the service life of steel and ti.

My nicest road bike is titanium, but I also have a steel bike, and I imagine most of the bikes I buy for the rest of my life will be handbuilt steel. I wouldn't say no to a nice carbon or carbon/ti bike either, however.

The reason is that stiffer rides make for better road feel. Also lighter bikes make for better climbing which is what wins long Tours. Carbon Fiber is a good in between because it eats up road vibration as well as being super light. But road life after a crash is not good. A steel bike in a crash is definitely longer lasting.

Again, it all depends on what the OP is riding for. Riding for fun or for racing.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
My father said that he might help me out a few hundred dollars on a good bike that will last me years, so I might be able to spend more the $1300 (think $1500-$2000). He's been doing traithlon for a while, (I just started) so he knows how much a good bike helps.

I really do appreciate the help that you guys have given me. However, I'm unfamiliar with most of the terms listed in this thread, so I'll go do some reading .

On a side note, which frame would you guys recommend if price wasn't an option: aluminum, carbon fiber, or titanium?

Personally, none of the above - steel rides nicer than any of them.

The irony in frame-material choice is that steel and titanium, which is arguably the best all-around material for normal people (it is extraordinarily tough, reasonably light, doesn't rust, and rides very nicely indeed) are now all but unheard of among professional bike racers. Aluminum and CF, which are what essentially all pros ride, are stiff and light, but don't ride as well as steel or ti, and lack the service life of steel and ti.

My nicest road bike is titanium, but I also have a steel bike, and I imagine most of the bikes I buy for the rest of my life will be handbuilt steel. I wouldn't say no to a nice carbon or carbon/ti bike either, however.

For me, comfort isn't exactly of the utmost priority. I would like to get a frame with the best speeds and performance, as I plan to take my biking seriously. Comfort comes last in book. Is steel still on top?

(I hope I didn't misread your post.)

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
For me, comfort isn't exactly of the utmost priority. I would like to get a frame with the best speeds and performance, as I plan to take my biking seriously. Comfort comes last in book. Is steel still on top?

(I hope I didn't misread your post.)

In that case, I would opt for Carbon Fiber.

If price wasn't an issue, in the Carbon Fiber bracket, I think the Scott CR1 is quite nice. But it is 2200 for the frame alone on sale. Match that with an Easton EC90 fork and you have a light and zippy frame.

Giant makes some decent Carbon Fibers for cheap. TCR Advanced is a good offering of price and good frame.

**EDIT**
CF is quite cushy too. But just don't wreck on a Carbon Fiber bike. Anything bent or damaged must be chucked. You will find that Aluminum is not a bad idea either. Get a good seatpost and a good saddle, and it will still be slightly cushy, and cheaper than a good Carbon Fiber frame.

This is what I ride - It is aluminum

Carbon Fiber seatstays like the Pinarellos.

 

[Brutuskend]

I built up one of these for my old girlfriend.

There are a lot of custom bike builders out there.

Strawberry bikes are made in Portland Oregon and my Gordon was made here in Eugene back in the '70's. We found her frame for sale in the Portland Newspaper used. Shop around and you may be able to find a NICE used frame in your size for a great price, then ad what components best fit you and your pocket book.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
I built up one of these for my old girlfriend.

There are a lot of custom bike builders out there.

Strawberry bikes are made in Portland Oregon and my Gordon was made here in Eugene back in the '70's. We found her frame for sale in the Portland Newspaper used. Shop around and you may be able to find a NICE used frame in your size for a great price, then ad what components best fit you and your pocket book.

Agreed, but that requires you looking around for a few months, and waiting on the best deals. It also requires you to build up most of your parts.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
I built up one of these for my old girlfriend.

There are a lot of custom bike builders out there.

Strawberry bikes are made in Portland Oregon and my Gordon was made here in Eugene back in the '70's. We found her frame for sale in the Portland Newspaper used. Shop around and you may be able to find a NICE used frame in your size for a great price, then ad what components best fit you and your pocket book.

:thumbsup:

I was thinking the same thing. I can probably find a very nice used frame or bike in the paper for half the price of retail.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

For me, comfort isn't exactly of the utmost priority. I would like to get a frame with the best speeds and performance, as I plan to take my biking seriously. Comfort comes last in book. Is steel still on top?

(I hope I didn't misread your post.)

There is no "fastest" frame material. Frame geometry is 100 times more important than frame material when it comes to your overall speed.

I understand what you're saying, but you can't be fast if you're not at least reasonably comfortable.

By way of illustration, I worked in a bike store about 12 years ago, and our two biggest lines were Cannondale (oversized AL and stiff as hell) and Bridgestone (traditional lugged steel with standard tube diameters).

People who test rode our bikes nearly always loved the C'Dales, which were very stiff and thus very responsive on a short ride. That said, they were often less enthusiastic about them after owning them for a couple of months, because the bikes would beat the hell out of them on long rides.

The people who bought heavier, flexier steel Bridgestones nearly all loved them, however, and the B'Stones were also far more popular among the employees of the shop.

AL bikes are a lot better now than those crappy old C'Dales were, but the same principles still apply. I know I would never, ever feel disadvantaged by racing on a steel Serotta, Richard Sachs, Della Santa, or any of dozens of other great steel bikes.

 

[JinLien]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
My father said that he might help me out a few hundred dollars on a good bike that will last me years, so I might be able to spend more the $1300 (think $1500-$2000). He's been doing traithlon for a while, (I just started) so he knows how much a good bike helps.

I really do appreciate the help that you guys have given me. However, I'm unfamiliar with most of the terms listed in this thread, so I'll go do some reading .

On a side note, which frame would you guys recommend if price wasn't an option: aluminum, carbon fiber, or titanium?

Personally, none of the above - steel rides nicer than any of them.

The irony in frame-material choice is that steel and titanium, which is arguably the best all-around material for normal people (it is extraordinarily tough, reasonably light, doesn't rust, and rides very nicely indeed) are now all but unheard of among professional bike racers. Aluminum and CF, which are what essentially all pros ride, are stiff and light, but don't ride as well as steel or ti, and lack the service life of steel and ti.

My nicest road bike is titanium, but I also have a steel bike, and I imagine most of the bikes I buy for the rest of my life will be handbuilt steel. I wouldn't say no to a nice carbon or carbon/ti bike either, however.

For me, comfort isn't exactly of the utmost priority. I would like to get a frame with the best speeds and performance, as I plan to take my biking seriously. Comfort comes last in book. Is steel still on top?

(I hope I didn't misread your post.)

LOL, live and learn young Paquin.

For most rider comfort is the uttermost important factor because it is what make & break the rider. A rider will be in much better shape for the last sprint to the finish line if his/her body isn?t sore due being beaten up by a stiff bike for the entire duration of the vigorous ride.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

For me, comfort isn't exactly of the utmost priority. I would like to get a frame with the best speeds and performance, as I plan to take my biking seriously. Comfort comes last in book. Is steel still on top?

(I hope I didn't misread your post.)

There is no "fastest" frame material. Frame geometry is 100 times more important than frame material when it comes to your overall speed.

I understand what you're saying, but you can't be fast if you're not at least reasonably comfortable.

By way of illustration, I worked in a bike store about 12 years ago, and our two biggest lines were Cannondale (oversized AL and stiff as hell) and Bridgestone (traditional lugged steel with standard tube diameters).

People who test rode our bikes nearly always loved the C'Dales, which were very stiff and thus very responsive on a short ride. That said, they were often less enthusiastic about them after owning them for a couple of months, because the bikes would beat the hell out of them on long rides.

The people who bought heavier, flexier steel Bridgestones nearly all loved them, however, and the B'Stones were also far more popular among the employees of the shop.

AL bikes are a lot better now than those crappy old C'Dales were, but the same principles still apply. I know I would never, ever feel disadvantaged by racing on a steel Serotta, Richard Sachs, Della Santa, or any of dozens of other great steel bikes.

I understand what you're saying now. A heavier, more comfortable frame helps you in the long run (or bike ) better than a lighter, stiffer frame.

In that case, wouldn't Ti be better than steel? Someone else said that Ti has the same comfort as steel, but is also lighter.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: DonVito
There is no "fastest" frame material. Frame geometry is 100 times more important than frame material when it comes to your overall speed.

I understand what you're saying, but you have to understand that you can't be fast if you're not at least reasonably comfortable.

By way of illustration, I worked in a bike store about 12 years ago, and our two biggest lines were Cannondale (oversized AL and stiff as hell) and Bridgestone (traditional lugged steel with standard tube diameters).

People who test rode our bikes nearly always loved the C'Dales, which were very stiff and thus very responsive on a short ride. That said, they were often less enthusiastic about them after owning them for a couple of months, because the bikes would beat the hell out of them on long rides.

The people who bought heavier, flexier steel Bridgestones nearly all loved them, however, and the B'Stones were also far more popular among the employees of the shop.

AL bikes are a lot better now than those crappy old C'Dales were, but the same principles still apply. I know I would never, ever feel disadvantaged by racing on a steel Serotta, Richard Sachs, Della Santa, or any of dozens of other great steel bikes.

QFT. Geometry is key to getting the best out of a bike. But lighter is better for performance racing. It hurts more usually, but you end up getting speed on the climbs.

For an average rider though who rides longer distances, steel, Ti, or carbon fiber is the way to go. Steel being the most affordable and most traditional, but also the heaviest. Aluminum is nice too, but definitely not the most comfortable. I get third leg, if you know what I mean.