Question I need a SAS Expander card but what about the specs? x16 versus x8 and 12Gb/s versus 6Gb/s...

[cemster]

Hi,
I found myself in need of a SAS expander card to accommodate my Z590 series motherboard that I am running an audio workstation with. Which only comes with 6 HDD Bays.

I am not going to RAID. I need 6 ports. So they are gonna be 12 total with my MOBO. They should support at least 8 TB drives, and they are all going to be needed at any given moment in my workflow.

But most of the cards I found Googling are either: x1, x2, x4, or Lanes are not mentioned at all.

And then there is 6Gb/s versus 12Gb/s cards... I've heard that the performance is %30 better with the latter.

I am perplexed about which specs I should chase. Which would be good enough? Obviously, I'd like a fast and reliable card.

So help on the subject and also maybe some specific card suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[cemster]

I don't think I am in the wrong place... I am in many places... And I am way more interested in what this and other Hardware/PC platforms got to say about the issue than the KVR...

I was like; Huh! because I felt like there was a bit of condescending tone to it. I tried to explain about 128GB just to inform everybody because it's somewhat a controversial topic. And I got a replay, like,
as if I was punishing him with the details. Like he was offended by my explanation... Which obviously was not my intention...
And that KVR suggestion sounded like; If you don't like my answers maybe you shouldn't be here... And I was like Huh!?
If it was me who has been over-sensitive, I apologize...
But it's all good... Thank you

@ LikeLinus

As far as your feelings about purpose-built machine vs my own built WS I'll simply say:

Money!

They will offer much less superior configurations, with parts that I wouldn't be in favor of, including makes and models,
or some overkill Zeon configs, also with parts that I wouldn't prefer, so, no! Definitely, I wouldn't be able to buy the machine I desire from a company. And of course, they would be able to offer me what I want... But... Money!?

This is my second build. The first build was a total success that lasted for almost 9 years.
This time around except few hiccups which all resolved, I have a better machine than any pre-built machine
that I could have been ripped off with...

I am happy with all the research I made previously buying the parts and I did take some risks but all paid off.
I have a giant and a monster of a machine.

Knowing hardware stuff is like learning about car engines. I learned all kinds of mechanical stuff whenever my secondhand cars got problems... With every new obstacle, you learn new stuff...

That was a long time ago, so I am older but still, if you can bend the learning curve you can learn anything...
Thanks to all these forums and general WWW... Making sure that the compatibility was my main concern
because some parts came from overseas, so I didn't want to return anything like I had to with MOBO,
luckily that was bought from a local dealer.

Also, I have to say I am not working "in" the Industry so much but "with" the Industry and that's even more like I am working with people who are in the industry...

And I do appreciate every input I get here and in other places. That's how I have 2X successful Workstations of my own built... Knock the wood? Well, I usually use my head for that...

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Well speaking of money, what @mxnerd was pointing out was that there are perfectly adequate and affordable last-gen cards that fit the bill here. You mentioned you were using HDDs. These modern 12Gb SAS Cards with PCIe 3 are completely overkill even if you have all SATA ports saturated with HDDs. PCIe 2.0 4x has 2GB (16Gbps) of bandwidth. 8 HDDs at full sequential write will just barely get there. If you're planning to do All-Flash, then in the consumer realm you won't use these cards anyways, because if you're doing Flash you should be doing NVMe, which none of these controllers except the 9500 are going to help you with. And even then, you're talking about introducing a bottleneck vs. just doing as many PCIe -> NVME M.2 cards in your system as you can squeeze in.

As long as you plan to use HDDs in your workflow, PCIe 2.0 is more than adequate. If you plan to go further than this, then I'd get off the HBA track entirely and start thinking about how you can get the capacity you want in NVMe.

Now if you are looking to do RAID, that's an entirely separate conversation, but my understanding is that you're just looking for ports to attach your HDDs to.

 

[LikeLinus]

You say Money, but then you're talking about how you have 128GB of memory because you may need it for the future? That's anywhere from $600-$1000 depending on speed and such. Kind of odd to be trying to save cost on the storage controller.

Buy a LSI 9300-8i based card and be done with it. 8 Port PCIe 3.0 12GB/s. Around $200 or under on eBay.

LSI RAID Controller and HBA Complete Listing Plus OEM Models

Below is a list of all known LSI SAS devices from the SAS1068 chipset to the very latest not yet publicly available SAS3xxx series. Devices with links have been released and official website technical info/support. Quite a few devices with no links are devices that may have been going to be...

forums.servethehome.com

 

[cemster]

@LikeLinus
Well, my friend, I spent about $800 for those Rams, yes. But I did that yesterdayz. Now, is todayz. I haven't made any money in the last 8 months so, 'around $200' is not a chicken fee right now... And that future is almost here in a year or so...

Besides, I was provided with the fact that to run SATA 6 drives, I don't need 12Gb/s.
And furthermore, @ unraid.net, I have been just informed that a PCIe 3.0 x2 card is apparently enough for 6 HDDs,
even if they are used simultaneously. They even had a suggestion: Asmedia ASM1166

So, that's where I am at right now...

@ thecoolnessrune
I can't think of anything better than squeezing in many NVMes with capacities I wish... That'll be the day...
My MOBO has great support for that stuff too. But allas, I need to make the money to buy them first...

 

[LikeLinus]

@LikeLinus
I haven't made any money in the last 8 months so, 'around $200' is not a chicken fee right now... And that future is almost here in a year or so...

The future isn't almost here with any need to move from 64GB to 128GB. I work with 4K footage and After Effects on a daily basis and 64GB is just fine. Also, it sounds like you really need to upgrade your storage! You know, having not made any money in 8 months.

Several people here tried to explain to you that you don't need the specs you keep chasing.

 

[cemster]

Why the condescending tone...

The future is here actually. I've just heard of a composer who fills up 256 GB with his huge projects.
And I have done lots of rendering in my day, so I can tell you that 128GB have would make a huge difference with all that rendering. I did with 64 GB...

Don't pay attention to the title though...

I appreciate the several people, here and elsewhere... And they are not always in sync. So, what I am chasing is not the specs but harmony...

I appreciate you too... But that doesn't mean I should stop learning, no?

 

[LikeLinus]

Why the condescending tone...

Because people already told you that you're limited and what you should use, but you seem to be pushing back on them and then spout off that another forum told you the same thing and they were right! WTF kind of logic is that. Jerking around people and wasting their time.

You would have saved a huge amount of time rendering with 128GB of RAM?

Your own video (it skips to the part about rendering video) -

Note the render time between 64GB and 128GB of ram is a whole 8 seconds!

Have you ever heard the term "dimensioning results"? You are someone who is out of job for many, many months and you're not even in the industry. Then you throw out that some composer needs 256GB of ram on a project. Face the facts, you're not John Williams creating huge orchestral music compositions for a big budget movie. You're basically unemployed and trying to build this outrageous computer, for what exactly? You have no working gigs! I know it sounds harsh, but a reality check my be in order if you cannot afford a $200 SATA controller and for some reason need all this high speed storage and RAM when you're not actually producing anything these days. Common sense in this case is more valuable than "learning". No one said to stop learning, but you asked for advice, ignored it, asked else where, and are now telling people here they were right. Going as far to say "They even had a suggestion". Seriously? People gave you suggestions here...

I'm done replying. Best of luck with your endeavors.

 

[cemster]

Too judgy... So much anger... I am not there. But I understand. Accusations are always based on your perception and then some feelings. After that, judging comes easy. I understand the motivation. But then bashing, putting down, trying to heart someone's feelings, (in the name of "reality check") much of that derives from one's own experience, usually a projection of self-validation.

Thank you for checking my reality for me. You interpret my words and actions as it fits into your perception. I can go on trying to correct your accusations but, I have reservations about surpassing your attitude.

But you never know, so at least I should say these.

For me; learning new stuff is a process that requires cross-references. But there are so much conflicting information and suggestions that you need to dig deeper. When I prepare my questions I post them on all available forums at the same, I learn more that way. It shouldn't piss people that I am asking the same question all over the net, and then try to cross-reference them. That is not ignoring but rechecking. Some of the suggestions are coherent but some are not. The video which is not mine is a source of info, like your input.

Common sense is learning. Common sense is knowing when you are judging not with fact but with your perception. Common sense is questioning what you hear even see...

I am not ignoring anyone who tried to help, I am certainly not wasting anybody's time. I can't make you do anything. Except maybe if I make you wait for me. But even then you can decide not to...

And sure, I am not anybody else. And no, I don't need 256 GB for scores. But before my previous WS crashed, I have exhausted 64GB scoring. Why would you care if I am part of the industry or not, I can't figure out, I've been working for the "industry" for decades. On both sides of the Atlantic. Never been employed except once which was some 31 years ago. So I am unemployed way longer than you though...

Almost always, when people get angry at other people is because they take offense of some kind for some reason,
and %99 of the time for the wrong reasons. As it is hidden in your last sentence: "Going as far to say "They even had a suggestion". Seriously? People gave you suggestions here... "

You feel like I ignore what has been said here, and cross them with what other people have said there...

But in fact, that's not really what happened here. I am only providing data, that's all for me, just data. And while I am trying to make sense of all, I present that data here, as I present your data there, not because I don't trust you or them but because the data I receive is confusing. If I don't trust anybody, that's me! I am learning new stuff so I can easily misunderstand things. So this is proofing, not ignoring. I am not slapping that info to your face, but that's how you feel.
Sorry, you feel that way, or if others do as well... But no apology is necessary. I have not been disrespectful or mean-spirited towards any of you. On the contrary, I respected and valued you. As I know-how.

And just a small suggestion, please don't talk about other people's financials. Or please don't invite people to face your perception of their realities, you will never be right. Not without empathy... You can really hurt some people with your ideas and assessments/judgments. Obviously, I won't get into my life's details, but you can never know what might be going on in people's lives. Just a suggestion. And no, I am not hurt, yet it did touch an itchy place.

Wisdom? The old saying is "good judgment comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgment."

And thank you for trying to help as long as you did. That part, I appreciated it.

 

[mxnerd]

Rendering in the memory and exhausted it not necessarily has anything to do with a disk I/O.

You never reveal how big your project size is so here is my final post.

You can learn on your own pace.

Z590 PCH (platform controller hub) diagram.

And study PCEI Express lanes on Wikipedia.

PCI Express - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Note that some motherboards have x16 slots that only have 4 or 8 lanes with pins. It will be in the spec sheet/manual.

Calculate the bandwidth and judge yourself.

 

[cemster]

Thanks, I will happily work on it... Well, maybe not happily but with appreciation...

Sorry. I didn't realize or consider the size of my potential projects would be a criterion in order for you to make better suggestions. Nobody asked really, and I didn't think of it.

So, just for the sake of it, as an atonement, I should send this post to glory...

My last biggest project was for a TV show. Few originals and a bunch of cues. And required around 200 channels.
I had to load all the cues and the externals on a timeline. Just before my machine went dead, I got a bigger job and I had to pass it on to my colleague.

But, I am hoping to not work on TV stuff anymore. And I doubt that I would want to get a huge score project. But even for the small scale, at the beginning stages, I'd like to open tones of stuff to eliminate. It is not a very suitable workflow for handling time-demanding jobs. I don't like producing fast jobs. And that's why I don't want to do them unless they have a flexible timetable.

Well, this was definitely more than anybody wanted to know about me around here but I don't mind.

Thank you... for the last time then...