I need a new political philosophy

[Brigandier]

I just learned Ayn Rand was a Russian Jew named Alissa Zinovievna Rosenbaum. In light of this, where do I have to go? I hate established wealth the Russian philosophy. I thought Ayn Rand was counter enough to support my ideals, where can I go now?

 

[Moonbeam]

Probably best off listening to me.

 

[Brigandier]

Probably best off listening to me.

I try to listen as hard as I can and hear nothing, what then? I'm having problems with the fact that Ayn Rand probably only has her philosophy because the communists it took from her. I can't even see communism as bad anymore. I am starting to see my intellectual star as being on this earth, what sounds do you have for that, moonbeam?

 

[Craig234]

You don't need 'a political philosophy'. That's an ideology and causes you to have wrong views, as you look not at the issue, but what the ideology says your view should be.

Instead, use logic, get informed on how society works, and doesn't work, and develop views for yourself, and learn what a menace to society ideology is.

 

[Moonbeam]

Brigandier: I try to listen as hard as I can and hear nothing, what then?

M: I don't know. I do not know what you are listening to and what you want to hear. I don't know what is at stake in all this for you.

B: I'm having problems with the fact that Ayn Rand probably only has her philosophy because the communists it took from her.

M: There is something wrong with that sentence and I can't be sure what it means.

B: I can't even see communism as bad anymore.

M: Clearly with everybody must die to create a communist state, it sucks, but when people work together out of love it's great, no?

B: I am starting to see my intellectual star as being on this earth, what sounds do you have for that, moonbeam?

M: If you are saying you are losing faith in Rand I seem to be OK and I never had any. You are not what you believe in and if you lose faith in something it may affect your ego confidence, but it doesn't impact your soul, your true self, the ground of your being or whatever you want to call your real self.

The questions I asked myself when I lost belief in everything and life lost all meaning was why did it matter. What was I feeling? What is suffering?

We have a hard time examining our unconscious assumptions because we are not aware that we have them or what they are.

You for example may be looking to reaffirm your faith in Rand instead of asking if you need it. I was very sure, for a long time, that life had to have meaning even though I was sure there is none. I never found any meaning but I did see that my need for it was also meaningless. I was clinging to a need for meaning and I let go.

 

[Steeplerot]

I feel for AR's plight and other Russian exiles but taking things to the other extreme is just as lame. A privately owned oligarchy is just as bad as a self appointed one.
I always thought of Ayn Rand as kinda the opposite of Emma Goldman. Emma Goldman had a radical ideology until she went to Russia herself and witnessed what the Bolsheviks were up to.
Ayn Rand was greatly wronged by the Bolshevik elite and was sent into exile and then sided with the elites here. The radical route.
Sadly, Ayn Rand never learned her lesson about the reality of the same totalitarian in the name of liberty (ahem *for the people*) types she backed here for revenge.

For political reasons people who matter (the rich and wanna-be) here rally behind her with the red scares. A convenient radical ideology for the ruling class here and a great tool for the wealthy.

Besides being a tool for the wealthy to pipe-piper the middle/working class into fanatically going against their own best interests, my real problem with Rand is her book's crap writing and creepy rape fantasys. The endless anti-socialist diatribes I can forgive her for, Emma Goldman also was never the same having to deal with Stalinistic bullshit firsthand in Russia back then and I could see how it scarred both for life.

 

[MotF Bane]

You don't need 'a political philosophy'. That's an ideology and causes you to have wrong views, as you look not at the issue, but what the ideology says your view should be.

Instead, use logic, get informed on how society works, and doesn't work, and develop views for yourself, and learn what a menace to society ideology is.

This from one of the biggest ideologues on the forum? :awe:

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I just learned Ayn Rand was a Russian Jew named Alissa Zinovievna Rosenbaum. In light of this, where do I have to go? I hate established wealth the Russian philosophy. I thought Ayn Rand was counter enough to support my ideals, where can I go now?

I dunno, but if your post is serious, then you are too stupid to be an Objectivist or a real Ayn Rand fan.

What part of Rand's advocacy of individualism and of judging people based, not on their unchosen ethnic backgrounds, but rather on the content of their chosen character did you not get from her novels The Fountainead and Atlas Shrugged?

Keep away from the Objectivist movement. The Objectivists will regard you as a complete retard.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Ayn Rand was greatly wronged by the Bolshevik elite and was sent into exile and then sided with the elites here.

How much do you know about Ayn Rand? As far as I know, neither she nor her family were particularly "wronged" by the communists, at least not directly in terms of being chosen for persecution. She was not exiled from Russia. She fled. I think she was somehow able to obtain permission to travel to the U.S. to study film making and quickly decided that she was never going back.

Rand was not born into wealth nor did she really enjoy wealth during her formative years as far as I know. I doubt she would have ever viewed herself as "siding with the elites". I'm under the impression that in her view, the philosophy she advocated was good for the little guy, too. She also thought laissez-faire capitalism would benefit the poor and the lower classes since it would lead to widespread economic prosperity.

The radical route. Sadly, Ayn Rand never learned her lesson about the reality of the same totalitarian in the name of liberty (ahem *for the people*) types she backed here for revenge.

I doubt that her motive for her philosophy was revenge. Rather, she sincerely believed that what she was advocating was objective and correct. I don't think revenge against the Soviets had anything to do with it.

I've read most of her writings and I never got the impression that she was concerned with getting revenge. If anything, she probably regarded the Soviets as irrelevant. She would probably have been more likely to think that the U.S. should just ignore the Soviets, refuse to trade with the Soviets (boycott), and just let their failed political and economic philosophy wither and die. I don't think she ever advocated invading Soviet Russia.

For political reasons people who matter (the rich and wanna-be) here rally behind her with the red scares. A convenient radical ideology for the ruling class here and a great tool for the wealthy.

She offers them a comprehensive philosophy which says that capitalism is the only moral political systems. It's not merely that she says that, "Capitalism is good." Rather, she offers an entire ethical and meta-ethical framework to back it up.

I was a heavy-duty Ayn Rand fan/Objectivist years ago before my political philosophy and some parts of my meta-ethics and ethical philosophy changed, but I'm still a fan. Today I advocate a mixed economy and even socialized medicine in addition to advocating reason and atheism. However, I still want to defend Rand and Objectivism against misrepresentations.

The Objectivist philosophy is deep and comprehensive, and even internally consistent. Today I disagree with much of its politics and some parts of its ethics, but it's wrong to dismiss it as merely silly irrationality. Excellent arguments can be made in favor of laissez-faire capitalism, and it can be argued that it would benefit almost everyone, even the poor. (However, if you're able-bodied and lazy or a drug user or otherwise just completely irrational, then capitalism might not benefit you. If you want to live on welfare and have ten kids while getting high on crack cocaine, capitalism won't be a benefit to you.)

 

[Moonbeam]

I dunno, but if your post is serious, then you are too stupid to be an Objectivist or a real Ayn Rand fan.

What part of Rand's advocacy of individualism and of judging people based, not on their unchosen ethnic backgrounds, but rather on the content of their chosen character did you not get from her novels The Fountainead and Atlas Shrugged?

Keep away from the Objectivist movement. The Objectivists will regard you as a complete retard.

He said, completely ignoring the content of your chosen character. I would stay away from isms of any kind, I would stay away from selecting your character and be who you are. Identify with nothing because belonging to something is is an ego need and ego needs are delusions.

The question is why are you searching. The unexamined assumption is there is something to be found that you need. Look at kittens and puppies and young apes. They are happy and the life of their being rejoices. This is your true human nature, no?

 

[cubby1223]

You don't need 'a political philosophy'. That's an ideology and causes you to have wrong views, as you look not at the issue, but what the ideology says your view should be.

Instead, use logic, get informed on how society works, and doesn't work, and develop views for yourself, and learn what a menace to society ideology is.

hehehe

What is logic to you is ideology to someone else.
What is ideology to you is logic to someone else.

Just come out and say "progressives use logic, everyone else uses ideology"

 

[Infohawk]

Keep reading and keep learning. Ayn Rand is usually someone people get over in college, but it's never too late. (Although you should judge people by their arguments, and not their motives.)

Personally, I don't think anyone created the ultimate political philosophy for modern times yet. There's been a lot of advancements in the hard sciences and the social sciences that need to be integrated.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Who's Ayn Rand? And why does his name have anything to do with your beliefs?

 

[Zorkorist]

How much do you know about Ayn Rand? As far as I know, neither she nor her family were particularly "wronged" by the communists, at least not directly in terms of being chosen for persecution. She was not exiled from Russia. She fled. I think she was somehow able to obtain permission to travel to the U.S. to study film making and quickly decided that she was never going back.

Rand was not born into wealth nor did she really enjoy wealth during her formative years as far as I know. I doubt she would have ever viewed herself as "siding with the elites". I'm under the impression that in her view, the philosophy she advocated was good for the little guy, too. She also thought laissez-faire capitalism would benefit the poor and the lower classes since it would lead to widespread economic prosperity.

I doubt that her motive for her philosophy was revenge. Rather, she sincerely believed that what she was advocating was objective and correct. I don't think revenge against the Soviets had anything to do with it.

I've read most of her writings and I never got the impression that she was concerned with getting revenge. If anything, she probably regarded the Soviets as irrelevant. She would probably have been more likely to think that the U.S. should just ignore the Soviets, refuse to trade with the Soviets (boycott), and just let their failed political and economic philosophy wither and die. I don't think she ever advocated invading Soviet Russia.

She offers them a comprehensive philosophy which says that capitalism is the only moral political systems. It's not merely that she says that, "Capitalism is good." Rather, she offers an entire ethical and meta-ethical framework to back it up.

I was a heavy-duty Ayn Rand fan/Objectivist years ago before my political philosophy and some parts of my meta-ethics and ethical philosophy changed, but I'm still a fan. Today I advocate a mixed economy and even socialized medicine in addition to advocating reason and atheism. However, I still want to defend Rand and Objectivism against misrepresentations.

The Objectivist philosophy is deep and comprehensive, and even internally consistent. Today I disagree with much of its politics and some parts of its ethics, but it's wrong to dismiss it as merely silly irrationality. Excellent arguments can be made in favor of laissez-faire capitalism, and it can be argued that it would benefit almost everyone, even the poor. (However, if you're able-bodied and lazy or a drug user or otherwise just completely irrational, then capitalism might not benefit you. If you want to live on welfare and have ten kids while getting high on crack cocaine, capitalism won't be a benefit to you.)

That's a hell of a post, WhipperSnapper.

To the original poster, Ayn Rand would not care about where she is from, or battles she has fought and won, or lost. She would only care about battles yet to be fought.

-John

 

[nick1985]

You don't need 'a political philosophy'. That's an ideology and causes you to have wrong views, as you look not at the issue, but what the ideology says your view should be.

Instead, use logic, get informed on how society works, and doesn't work, and develop views for yourself, and learn what a menace to society ideology is.

lol thanks for the laugh

 

[nonlnear]

OP, you desperately do need a new ideology as long as you think you do. Hopefully you are searching for better reasons than the ones you posted. i.e. you found a fatal flaw in the construction of the one you were holding so you decided to drop it (as opposed to finding something distasteful about a character in the narrative of your ideology). Pick up the next shiny idea toy and play with it a while. Eventually if you do everything right, you will see them all lined up on your wall, like a redneck hunting lodge, and realize they are all dead. Each of them is a useful tool for a certain style of critique, but there isn't one out there worth "believing" as universal truth. After all, words can't convey truth - or even define it. Whatever you do, have fun with it!

It sounds like you are tossing Rand aside a little too lightly. There are some good reasons not to choose her system, but what you stated in the OP doesn't sound like one. OTOH, if you have ideals and you are just looking for a system to "support" them, I have to ask why? If your ideals are worth having then why do you care about having a notable figure to back you up? Just explore your ideals on your own and figure out your own system. Is it really that important to you to have a group you can identify with? If so, it would seem that you have a latent need not being served by your ideals. Worse yet, if that is indeed the case then the ideals you think are at the core of your being may not actually be the ones most deeply at the core of your being...

 

[ShawnD1]

How's this for an idea: do what has the best results

If research says making drugs legal works, then do that. If studies say killing every single person found selling drugs works, then do that. Don't let your personal moral crusade get in the way of fixing shit that is broken.

Who's Ayn Rand? And why does his name have anything to do with your beliefs?

Some people are stupid and can't form their own opinions. They find 1 messiah who seems to have some good ideas then they cling to that person and accept all of their ideas.

 

[dmcowen674]

Probably best off listening to me.

or me

I'm not anywhere near as eloquent in my words but the meaning is the same.

 

[Siddhartha]

I just learned Ayn Rand was a Russian Jew named Alissa Zinovievna Rosenbaum. In light of this, where do I have to go? I hate established wealth the Russian philosophy. I thought Ayn Rand was counter enough to support my ideals, where can I go now?

You stopped agreeing with Ms Rand when you found out she was an immigrant Russian Jew? Why should her being an immigrant Russian Jew affect how you think about her "political philosophy"?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Who's Ayn Rand? And why does his name have anything to do with your beliefs?

See:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_ayn_rand_aynrand_biography

and:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=objectivism_intro

I should also point out that many political figures and ideologues have been influenced, and often heavily influenced, by Ayn Rand. I'm pretty sure that Alan Greenspan was part of her inner circle at one time and contributed an essay or two to an anthology with her name on it (Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal).

Many pro-capitalist Republicans, TEA Partiers, Libertarians, and probably even some Democrats have been influenced by her writing, including elected politicians and political candidates. That is not the same as saying that they are Objectivists or that they agree with all or even most of her philosophy (which advocates atheism, btw), just that they have been influenced.

 

[UberNeuman]

Before you ask for a philosophy - where is it you stand now?

 

[Amused]

You stopped agreeing with Ms Rand when you found out she was an immigrant Russian Jew? Why should her being an immigrant Russian Jew affect how you think about her "political philosophy"?

My question is, why the fuck did it take so long for someone to ask this???

No one dared point out the obvious anti-semitism of the OP? Seriously?

 

[UberNeuman]

My question is, why the fuck did it take so long for someone to ask this???

No one dared point out the obvious anti-semitism of the OP? Seriously?

Maybe it's waiting to see if the OP has balls enough to come back and answer....

\time will tell....

 

[JS80]

My question is, why the fuck did it take so long for someone to ask this???

No one dared point out the obvious anti-semitism of the OP? Seriously?

Meh, I was hoping no one would feed the troll.

 

[PeshakJang]

You don't need 'a political philosophy'. That's an ideology and causes you to have wrong views, as you look not at the issue, but what the ideology says your view should be.

Instead, use logic, get informed on how society works, and doesn't work, and develop views for yourself, and learn what a menace to society ideology is.

See my signature for a list of my favorite ideologues, who will tell you what your view should be.

Why did you edit this out?