i need a few things explained to me

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
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what exactly is a neocon?

if youre not gay, why do you care so much about "gay rights"?

and since you care so much about "gay rights", why dont you also care for Iraqi freedom?

or to take it one step further, why dont you care for freedom of the oppressed around the world?

 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Although this is flamebait...

Neocon- A Radical Conservative
Why do I care about gay rights? Because I think we are once again being silly about someone being "different." No different than civil rights back in the 60's(except discrimination was worse and more widespread back then).

I "do" care about Iraqi Freedom, but it is also obvious that some of them don't want us there. BTW, freeing someone is pretty subjective. A lot of them didn't want to be freed.

Finally, once again I DO care about those who are oppressed around the world. WTF do Gay Rights have to do with Iraq or our new policy of preemption? :confused:
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
1
0
not sure what a neocon is but it sure seems popular to say

the same reason people believe in animal rights, civil rights, etc?

n/a

maybe people care for oppressed people around the world but we don't live in a fairy tale world where we can magically fix everything?
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
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they have nothing to do with one another, i was just looking for clarification on those issues.


A lot of them didn't want to be freed.
yeah, the ones who led a posh life under saddam. for the most part [and this is what my Army buddies deployed in Iraq tell me] the Iraqis are glad to have American troops there. Apperently, the most of the problems are in the "Sunni Triangle". My buddies tell me thats where a lot of ex-saddam people are hiding out and causing mischief and the area the Brits control is rather peacful.

Because I think we are once again being silly about someone being "different."
ah, but i believe that homosexuality is about going against the natural order of things, not about being different. you can choose to be gay, but you cannot choose to be black. so, its just a bit different than the CRM
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Genesys
they have nothing to do with one another, i was just looking for clarification on those issues.


A lot of them didn't want to be freed.
yeah, the ones who led a posh life under saddam. for the most part [and this is what my Army buddies deployed in Iraq tell me] the Iraqis are glad to have American troops there. Apperently, the most of the problems are in the "Sunni Triangle". My buddies tell me thats where a lot of ex-saddam people are hiding out and causing mischief and the area the Brits control is rather peacful.
WTF are you telling me this for? I am quite aware of the Iraq situation.
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
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because you made a stupid statement and you should correct yourself from spreading misinformation.
 

SViscusi

Golden Member
Apr 12, 2000
1,200
8
81
Urban Dictionary

NeoCon

The term "NeoConservative" dates back to the early 60s to mean a branch of radical Conservatives who goes beyond the traditional reactionary stance.

Today the term means radical rightwing supporters who supports the supression of freedom of speech although they support racism; who supports nation building abroad although they hate making the US a better place; who supports the "liberation" of Iraqis although they support racist profiling as well lock ups of Arab immigrants in the US; who supports Corporate welfare although they hate the welfare system; who support the rich in general, although most of them are in the middle/lower class; who support the war, knowing how much it will cost, although they are against taxes.
Websters

One entry found for neoconservative.


Main Entry: neo·con·ser·va·tive
Pronunciation: -k&n-'s&r-v&-tiv
Function: noun
Date: 1952
: a former liberal espousing political conservatism
- neo·con·ser·va·tism /-v&-"ti-z&m/ noun
- neoconservative adjective
 

MonstaThrilla

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2000
1,652
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Originally posted by: Genesys you can choose to be gay, but you cannot choose to be black. so, its just a bit different than the CRM
This is the fundamental difference here. You believe being gay is a choice. If this were true, why would anyone choose to be gay? The gay people I know don't choose to be gay, they just are. Meaning they were born that way much like black people are born black.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume being gay is a choice. Practicing a certain religion is a choice too. Do you not agree that if we are given the right to practice whatever religion we want, that we should also be given the right to practice whatever sexual lifestyle we want?
 

dpm

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2002
1,513
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Originally posted by: Genesys
what exactly is a neocon? if youre not gay, why do you care so much about "gay rights"? and since you care so much about "gay rights", why dont you also care for Iraqi freedom? or to take it one step further, why dont you care for freedom of the oppressed around the world?
Who the hell's this "you"?
Pure flamebait.

By the way, if the news articles are to be believed, you can add to your list (of people who criticise George W) his daddy ;)
 

MonstaThrilla

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2000
1,652
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0
Originally posted by: Genesys
what exactly is a neocon?

if youre not gay, why do you care so much about "gay rights"?

and since you care so much about "gay rights", why dont you also care for Iraqi freedom?

or to take it one step further, why dont you care for freedom of the oppressed around the world?
A neo-conservative is a person who believes the United States should freely exercise its military strength over the world in order to assert global dominance and usher in a world model consistent to the values and beliefs of the United States.

I'm not gay, but I care about gay rights because I care for the rights of fellow human beings who happen to be gay.

I also do care about the freedom of the Iraqi people and for all those oppressed around the world. I just do not believe that launching a fullscale, preemptive land invasion of the country was the correct way to get Iraqis that freedom.

The problem you have is that you are unable to keep seperate ideas distinct. Being against the war doesn't mean that you're pro-Saddam. Being against the war doesn't mean that you hate America. Being against the war doesn't mean that you don't have compassion for fellow human beings.

This kind of fallacious thinking crept its way into American culture when our President abused the unity and support of the world after the 9/11 attacks when he said "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists". Such statements are illogical and dangerous.

I close with a quote from Hermann Goering, the Third Reich's second in command, made on the eve of his Nuremberg trial:


Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
 

KenGr

Senior member
Aug 22, 2002
725
0
0
Since this seems not to have become a flamefest, here is an article on neocons that seems to be fairly straightforward:
Neocon
Tradition conservatives were often thought of as somewhat isolationist. Neocon seems to be thrown around as a deragatory term but it really just defines a conservative who believes in a strong international presence with support for capitalist economies and democracies.

I don't understand the rest of the original post. If you have gay friends (which most people do, these days, you will probably care about gay rights. And that doesn't keep you from supporting the Iraq operation. I support gay rights and the Coalition operations in Iraq.

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Tradition conservatives were often thought of as somewhat isolationist.
You mean not in the business of Nation Building or being the Worlds Policeman?
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
Originally posted by: Genesys you can choose to be gay, but you cannot choose to be black. so, its just a bit different than the CRM
This is the fundamental difference here. You believe being gay is a choice. If this were true, why would anyone choose to be gay? The gay people I know don't choose to be gay, they just are. Meaning they were born that way much like black people are born black.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume being gay is a choice. Practicing a certain religion is a choice too. Do you not agree that if we are given the right to practice whatever religion we want, that we should also be given the right to practice whatever sexual lifestyle we want?
You missed Genesys' point completely... Even if someone is not "born" gay, he/she can still choose to be gay. However, being black is never a choice.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
Originally posted by: Genesys you can choose to be gay, but you cannot choose to be black. so, its just a bit different than the CRM
This is the fundamental difference here. You believe being gay is a choice. If this were true, why would anyone choose to be gay? The gay people I know don't choose to be gay, they just are. Meaning they were born that way much like black people are born black.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume being gay is a choice. Practicing a certain religion is a choice too. Do you not agree that if we are given the right to practice whatever religion we want, that we should also be given the right to practice whatever sexual lifestyle we want?
You missed Genesys' point completely... Even if someone is not "born" gay, he/she can still choose to be gay. However, being black is never a choice.

Also, someone can choose to be a murderer, but that doesn't justify murder. Not that a necessarily disagree with your second point, but I think it is flawed.
Who in their right mind would choose to be Gay? Do you think someone who is straight one day decides he prefers the old Brown Eye and the all the negative consequences that go along with it? I really doubt it.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
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0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
Originally posted by: Genesys you can choose to be gay, but you cannot choose to be black. so, its just a bit different than the CRM
This is the fundamental difference here. You believe being gay is a choice. If this were true, why would anyone choose to be gay? The gay people I know don't choose to be gay, they just are. Meaning they were born that way much like black people are born black.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume being gay is a choice. Practicing a certain religion is a choice too. Do you not agree that if we are given the right to practice whatever religion we want, that we should also be given the right to practice whatever sexual lifestyle we want?
You missed Genesys' point completely... Even if someone is not "born" gay, he/she can still choose to be gay. However, being black is never a choice.

Also, someone can choose to be a murderer, but that doesn't justify murder. Not that a necessarily disagree with your second point, but I think it is flawed.
Who in their right mind would choose to be Gay? Do you think someone who is straight one day decides he prefers the old Brown Eye and the all the negative consequences that go along with it? I really doubt it.
I am sure there are many ways to answer that question, but it doesn't matter... people can choose to be gay. If people couldn't choose to be gay, we wouldn't need to have this debate.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
Originally posted by: Genesys you can choose to be gay, but you cannot choose to be black. so, its just a bit different than the CRM
This is the fundamental difference here. You believe being gay is a choice. If this were true, why would anyone choose to be gay? The gay people I know don't choose to be gay, they just are. Meaning they were born that way much like black people are born black.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume being gay is a choice. Practicing a certain religion is a choice too. Do you not agree that if we are given the right to practice whatever religion we want, that we should also be given the right to practice whatever sexual lifestyle we want?
You missed Genesys' point completely... Even if someone is not "born" gay, he/she can still choose to be gay. However, being black is never a choice.

Also, someone can choose to be a murderer, but that doesn't justify murder. Not that a necessarily disagree with your second point, but I think it is flawed.
Who in their right mind would choose to be Gay? Do you think someone who is straight one day decides he prefers the old Brown Eye and the all the negative consequences that go along with it? I really doubt it.
I am sure there are many ways to answer that question, but it doesn't matter... people can[i/] choose to be gay. If people couldn't choose to be gay, we wouldn't need to have this debate.

Though I think it's rare you are right, people can choose to be gay just like they can choose to be a Christian or an Atheist.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,012
3,859
136
<<<i need a few things explained to me>>>







Why not be honest and more accurate and change your title to "I need to Argue about a few things."



I think an explanation was the Last thing you were looking for.
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Originally posted by: Genesys
what exactly is a neocon?

if youre not gay, why do you care so much about "gay rights"?

and since you care so much about "gay rights", why dont you also care for Iraqi freedom?

or to take it one step further, why dont you care for freedom of the oppressed around the world?
1. A conservative that's lost touch with conservatism, whos political tendencies leans more towards fascism.

2. I care about rights of all americans, including yours.

3. The real question is... when did you care so much for Iraqi freedom? Hi and welcome to liberalism. Heres our information packet, not only on saddam and his atrocities, but about almost every other nation as well. Oh and one other thing, part of liberalism also includes not trying to put more people into graves by starting useless wars, I think George Bush missed that part when we killed 55,000 Iraqi's.

4. Why don't you care about the oppressed of the world? More importantly why doesn't George W. Bush? Theres alot more oppressed people in the world than just the people of Iraq. Infact, why don't we invade all those countries and pour 200 billion dollars into their economy and 400 of our soldiers live?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
Originally posted by: Genesys you can choose to be gay, but you cannot choose to be black. so, its just a bit different than the CRM
This is the fundamental difference here. You believe being gay is a choice. If this were true, why would anyone choose to be gay? The gay people I know don't choose to be gay, they just are. Meaning they were born that way much like black people are born black.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume being gay is a choice. Practicing a certain religion is a choice too. Do you not agree that if we are given the right to practice whatever religion we want, that we should also be given the right to practice whatever sexual lifestyle we want?
You missed Genesys' point completely... Even if someone is not "born" gay, he/she can still choose to be gay. However, being black is never a choice.

Also, someone can choose to be a murderer, but that doesn't justify murder. Not that a necessarily disagree with your second point, but I think it is flawed.
Who in their right mind would choose to be Gay? Do you think someone who is straight one day decides he prefers the old Brown Eye and the all the negative consequences that go along with it? I really doubt it.
I am sure there are many ways to answer that question, but it doesn't matter... people can[i/] choose to be gay. If people couldn't choose to be gay, we wouldn't need to have this debate.

Though I think it's rare you are right, people can choose to be gay just like they can choose to be a Christian or an Atheist.


No, according to Judges which now rule America as Dictators you must be Athiests and Gay only.
One good thing about that is it is sure to reduce population count.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
I am sure there are many ways to answer that question, but it doesn't matter... people can choose to be gay. If people couldn't choose to be gay, we wouldn't need to have this debate.
Don't agree. I didn't "choose" to be attracted to my wife--who is a physical carbon copy of most of my former girlfriends: I'm partial to petite brunettes with curls.

I did, however, choose to engage in a relationship with my wife--which is the only real "choice" that someone who is gay makes, IMHO.
 

dpm

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2002
1,513
0
0
Originally posted by: Corn
I am sure there are many ways to answer that question, but it doesn't matter... people can choose to be gay. If people couldn't choose to be gay, we wouldn't need to have this debate.
Don't agree. I didn't "choose" to be attracted to my wife--who is a physical carbon copy of most of my former girlfriends: I'm partial to petite brunettes with curls. I did, however, choose to engage in a relationship with my wife--which is the only real "choice" that someone who is gay makes, IMHO.
Alleluia! Can we sticky this post at the top, so some of the morons can slowly get it into their heads?
btw, Nice to agree with you for a change, corn ;)

also, dmcowen674 - can you stop with your "the sky is falling!" threads? take a deep breath, ok?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
Originally posted by: Genesys you can choose to be gay, but you cannot choose to be black. so, its just a bit different than the CRM
This is the fundamental difference here. You believe being gay is a choice. If this were true, why would anyone choose to be gay? The gay people I know don't choose to be gay, they just are. Meaning they were born that way much like black people are born black.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume being gay is a choice. Practicing a certain religion is a choice too. Do you not agree that if we are given the right to practice whatever religion we want, that we should also be given the right to practice whatever sexual lifestyle we want?
You missed Genesys' point completely... Even if someone is not "born" gay, he/she can still choose to be gay. However, being black is never a choice.

Also, someone can choose to be a murderer, but that doesn't justify murder. Not that a necessarily disagree with your second point, but I think it is flawed.
Who in their right mind would choose to be Gay? Do you think someone who is straight one day decides he prefers the old Brown Eye and the all the negative consequences that go along with it? I really doubt it.
I am sure there are many ways to answer that question, but it doesn't matter... people can[i/] choose to be gay. If people couldn't choose to be gay, we wouldn't need to have this debate.

Though I think it's rare you are right, people can choose to be gay just like they can choose to be a Christian or an Atheist.


No, according to Judges which now rule America as Dictators you must be Athiests and Gay only.
One good thing about that is it is sure to reduce population count.

STFU please, all you do is spout ignorance!
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Corn
I am sure there are many ways to answer that question, but it doesn't matter... people can choose to be gay. If people couldn't choose to be gay, we wouldn't need to have this debate.
Don't agree. I didn't "choose" to be attracted to my wife--who is a physical carbon copy of most of my former girlfriends: I'm partial to petite brunettes with curls.

I did, however, choose to engage in a relationship with my wife--which is the only real "choice" that someone who is gay makes, IMHO.
So, you don't think that a person can choose to be gay? They can only choose to engage in a gay relationship.

If someone who is straight chooses to engage in a gay relationship, doesn't that make them a homosexual?
 

TheBDB

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2002
3,176
0
0
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
Originally posted by: Genesys you can choose to be gay, but you cannot choose to be black. so, its just a bit different than the CRM
This is the fundamental difference here. You believe being gay is a choice. If this were true, why would anyone choose to be gay? The gay people I know don't choose to be gay, they just are. Meaning they were born that way much like black people are born black.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume being gay is a choice. Practicing a certain religion is a choice too. Do you not agree that if we are given the right to practice whatever religion we want, that we should also be given the right to practice whatever sexual lifestyle we want?
You missed Genesys' point completely... Even if someone is not "born" gay, he/she can still choose to be gay. However, being black is never a choice.
I am straight and I could choose to be gay if I wanted to, though I don't think I would like it. I am also white and I could choose to wear black makeup so I would look black. In both cases I am going against what I truly am. People can choose to be gay (its possible but I don't think it happens often) just like black people can choose to wear white makeup (its possible but I don't think it happens often). Discrimination in both cases is wrong.
 

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