I must be the only person who likes Matrix Reloaded more

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

LuminousSpecter

Junior Member
Feb 9, 2012
3
0
0
www.sweetpaul.com
Hey everyone,

Just thought I'd put in my two cents here. I'm kind of an expert on the Matrix films. I've run the world's foremost Matrix fan site for the better part of 13 years (with a few hickups including a total loss of forum data a year and a half ago). It's called MatrixFans.net

But that's neither here nor there.

When I saw the sequels for the first time, it was a week before they hit theaters, and therefore no press was out and everyone was still excited for the movies. The day that The Matrix Reloaded came out, my website was ranked around #5000 on Alexa.

My thoughts on the sequels have changed in the last few years. I used to think the sequels were perfect as they are, save for the stupid, pointless rave scene in The Matrix Reloaded. That was awful and can be skipped without missing anything.

Personally, I've come up with my own plot idea for the Matrix sequels that I feel would have done two things: 1) taken the Matrix to the next level. 2) satisfied most of the fans of the first one.

When the first one ends, Neo says he's going to show everyone a world without the artificial intelligence. That's precisely what I would have him do. I'd start out by having Neo fly around the Matrix, working with teams, freeing as many people as he can, with wild abandon. The Agents now fear Neo, so the Machines now try to upgrade the Agents. Sure, have Smith return and start replicating himself. That turns Smith into a virus, that is a threat to both the Machines and the Real World. As Smith takes over minds, the Machines should start unplugging people and losing power, causing whole sections of the Matrix to shut down.

I'd also have Neo go into the Matrix at some point with a need to sneak around, to rescue some members of one of the hovercrafts, after Smith has essentially found and copied himself onto every other potential mind they could have freed, and the Machines are still working to unplug all of the people. If Neo is seen, the Smiths would attack like bugs, so he's gotta be very careful. There would be scenes where he's sneaking around and just as a Smith is about to turn and see him, that one is unplugged, and vanishes.

At this point, there are three sides: The Machines, the Program Smith, and the Free Minds of Zion.

I'd also have the cliffhanger be that Neo did, in fact, have powers in the real world, like an EMP. He goes to Zero One, takes out their wall of defense, and fifty hovercrafts converge from below and above, all batteries firing on the machine city.

I'd also have Zion capable of hosting the thousands of folks that they were able to free from the Matrix before it collapsed under the weight of Agent Smith.

Personally, I think a victory for our heroes is far better than a truce between humans and machines. That was much more of a cop-out, like Abraham Lincoln saying: Let's have peace, if you want to have slaves, that's fine as long as you free a slave if they discover that they are enslaved.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
What Matrix sequels? Next thing you know there will be crazy people talking about Star Wars prequels or something!
 

Saint Nick

Lifer
Jan 21, 2005
17,722
6
81
I actually enjoyed all three. I am donning my Suit of Flames. My flame resistance has increased 20% and I can absorb magicka.

Great first post LS.
 
Last edited:

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
lol come on

the sequels weren't bad, they just weren't brilliant, and thus were disappointing if we don't consider them as separate entities. We had our minds blown with The Matrix, it really was only downhill from there.

Reloaded kept some hope for our minds to be blown yet again when Neo somehow disabled the Sentinels in the real world as a cliff hanger (Matrix within a Matrix, etc), but Revolutions never lived up to that.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,605
3
81
The storyline contained in the sequels wasn't terrible, there just wasn't enough of it.

It's long been my though you could cut Reloaded down to about 45m and cut Revolutions down to an hour and a half and make one movie out of it.

Making two films just filled them with stuff completely unnecessary to the story all for the sake of making a buck, essentially.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
I thought the big tower defense scene at the end was annoying. Kinda funny seeing a big armored mech warrior with an exposed pilot like that too. I guess it makes sense in that the machines don't use bullets but rather melee attacks.

How would I have done it? I do like how they didn't go in the obvious direction of "overthrow the machines and bring freedom" but instead had this weird detente going on where Neo has made peace with evil. I wouldn't have killed Trinity. That was stupid. I wouldn't have blinded Neo. That was sad and gory. I would have killed Morpheus in some epic death that he deserved. All mentors and father figures need to die.

I wonder how people react to CGI now. Nowadays I get bored with CGI. THe only action that truly interests me happens in like the Batman films where it's not really CGI but shot in action.

The CGI in the Matrix is really obvious. Especially the "burly man" fight scene. The battle of zion was also boring for that reason. It was all CGI.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
than the first movie.

Basically, all first movies spend a lot of time doing introductions. All second acts really take the plot somewhere.
I agree completely. Also, I feel the same way about Star Wars. Phantom Menace was all just useless exposition; Attack of the Clones is really the pinnacle of the saga for me. Really excellent film. People always say the old ones are better. Are they blind? The special effects are crap!

/troll
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
exactly: hence--the worst piece of buttshit dumbass filmmaking ever. terrible, horribly edited scenes, bad choreography, and does nothing to advance the story. lazy ass bullshit to appease idiots.

oh, you forget the pointless 5 minute rave in the cave, and the pointless running around a pole and kicking 800,000 agent smiths for no god damn fucking reason for fucking 10 minutes.

what a horrid abortion on celluloid.
:thumbsup:

Matrix Reloaded advanced the story well enough, but there's so much shit that should have been cut. As you mentioned, the cave rave scene was totally pointless. I get that it's about morpheus trying to make a point, but that could have been accomplished by him saying his thing, people cheering while he walks off the stage, camera follows morpheus off stage, he says something to someone else, scene ends. Fighting agent smith for 10 minutes was just stupid. He was only there to talk to the oracle. Once that conversation is over, there was no legit reason for him to stay around and fight people.

A lot of Matrix Reloaded was still worth watching. One scene I thought was interesting was the one where neo and the councilor guy are talking at night (wouldn't it always be night underground?). The councilor makes a point about control. Neo thinks the humans control the machinese in Zion because humans can shut down the machines. The councilor reminds him that they can't shut the machines down because they rely on the machines for clean air and water. It parallels their current situation. While the machines "control" the fields of humans, they need to take care of the humans if they want to maintain their own existence. The architect says that the machines need Neo to reboot the matrix so their fields of humans keep running properly.

Matrix Revolutions is total garbage. There's not a single scene in that entire movie I liked. 0/10. I also wrote about this a couple weeks ago.


What really made Reloaded a good movie is that it implies Zion is still inside the matrix. The machine guy said the matrix is much older than anyone realizes. They've destroyed it many times before and rebuilt it many times before. It was never outside of the machines control. It's more like a fenced off area for humans to go if they don't want to live in the regular matrix with all the regular people (~dress like a goth because you're different from all the conformists). This plot twist explains a lot of stupid shit, so it's suddenly not stupid. How did Agent Smith get out of the matrix? He didn't. He's still in the matrix, but he's in a different level of the matrix (like Inception). Agents can normally take control of a persons's body in the matrix, and that's exactly what Smith did, but he jumped from one matrix layer to another. How did neo stop machines when he's out of the matrix? He can stop them because he's still in the matrix. Now what? Watch the next movie to find out!

Matrix Revolutions (fucking worst movie ever)
This movie basically says that everything in the above paragraph is wrong OR that it doesn't matter. Yes Agent Smith escaped the Matrix, which is stupid. Neo just has magic powers for no reason, which is stupid. Now their solution is declare peace with the machines, and that by itself is stupid because in the first movie they said humans need conflict at all times (ie matrix outside the matrix is at constant war). Why is Agent Smith the main bad guy? That's retarded. So like he's a designed part of the matrix and he just starts ruining it? What like how I install Windows 7 and it expands to 25gb so my 30gb SSD no longer has space and I need to format the fucker again? Actually that doesn't sound so stupid when I phrase it like that since that actually is happening to my current computer....
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,892
31,410
146
I love how zinfamous ALWAYS goes over-the-top whenever the Matrix trilogy is brought up on here, never fails to shows how baseless and retarded his jaded hate for the movies are, just reading all the words he likes to pull out of his ass to bash it makes me laugh like no Seinfeld show ever could. I concluded a while ago that he was stood up on blind dates where one of them was the agreed upon movie or something like this, it's the only way I can make sense of his hate. Let me get this straight, of all the ridiculous nonesense that masquerades as motion pictures these days, the 2nd and 3rd Matrix movies are the WORST! Yup, not Ghost Rider, not the Chipmunks, the 2nd and 3rd Matrix movies trump them, have no story and use scenes like cave raves and CGI fights for no reason whatsoever. I'd love to see a list of the movies you like so I can pick those apart with things I don't like about them and treat it as accepted gospel.


i think the issue is that you are blinded into thinking it should be good, simply because you loved the first one so much. You are unable to rationalize how poorly executed this film truly is, both because you're expectations dull reality, and perhaps because you have little experience examining movies, in general?

yes, all of those movies are better than Matrix 2. They set out to be the stupid movies that you expect them to be, giving no pretension that they are to be taken seriously. The Matrix 2 expects you to be wowed--it expects you to consider it "smart" content, and "Smart filmmaking." It is so, so far from that. Action doesn't make a movie, nor do special effects (or terrible effects, at that). They are a means to drive characters through their actions, to drive plot. The wachowski idiots left their brains at the door when crafting Matrix 2--and god bless them for it, because they profited well off the puss-sucking idiots that lapped it up in droves.

But honestly, I haven't really met anyone that didn't share the same opinion of this sequel, and those tend to be much bigger fans of the first one than I ever would be.
 

SphinxnihpS

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
8,368
25
91
the second is the worst piece of filth buttshit movie ever made.

fact.

No. We have a thread around here somewhere which discredits this notion. I can name 50 A movies worse than Matrix Reloaded.
 
Last edited:

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,758
603
126
I don't really get the hate for Reloaded. And you know why? Because the Matrix wasn't really that great. I really enjoyed the first movie because of its style, special effects and cool action sequences. But the whole machine motive for the premise was completely ridiculous and you all know it. The premise of a world in a world is a cool idea, but the action scenes and special effects are why that movie was popular. If you want to see a better rendition plotwise of the premise watch the 13th floor that came out around the same time. Its not an action movie though so its not even trying to do the same things.

So for me, the Matrix was mostly about the flash. Reloaded delivered more of the same. The action sequences with the car chase and the Neo fight with Meriovengian are really entertaining and over the top fun. Where it stumbled is that it took a ridiculous but sort of acceptable story and just ran it right off the tracks into weirdo town. Ghosts and werewolves and rogue programs and the keymaker and the architect or whatever...ugh. And that dance sequence, mother of god fire your editor. And all the self important preaching by characters. The movie wants me to say "this is serious business here" and put on a grave expression...but its so goofy it just makes you laugh. There were enough cool fights that it was worth watching but if its on TV or HBO I just watch the car chase / Neo goon fight and turn it off. The rest is just bad.

Revolutions is just terrible though. I remember one cool but short zero G fight with the Mirovengian goons and the rest of it took place in nap-inducing meat space and involves a lot of really bad dialog and sequences of those ships flying around. Don't mention the dragon ball Z finale because you know its crap. Neo flying sucks and a whole flying fight sucks even more. Its a Matrix movie without the fucking Matrix. And they spend all this time developing throwaway characters and political bullshit. And its just terrible and not clever. You're suppose to be surprised at the outcome but you just want that stupid mech shooting sequence to end already.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
So for me, the Matrix was mostly about the flash. Reloaded delivered more of the same.

The first one was cool because the story explained all of the stuff happening. The only major problem I can see is where the characters have strange and random limitations. They can jump 200 feet but they can't dodge bullets? Whatever, just roll with it.

The second was more of the same but the story had more of a twist at the end. The plot was weaker than the first because a lot of the stuff seems random, like that key maker guy and how a program has him captive. Then there's also that stuff about how getting into the source is ridiculously hard even though the machines need him to do this in order to survive. /facepalm at the plot.

The third is just stupid. None of the action is enjoyable because none of it makes any sense. Train man? wtf is that bullshit? Neo has magic powers for no reason? The main bad guy is agent smith? This is just retarded.
 

Sureshot324

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
3,370
0
71
I don't really get the hate for Reloaded. And you know why? Because the Matrix wasn't really that great. I really enjoyed the first movie because of its style, special effects and cool action sequences. But the whole machine motive for the premise was completely ridiculous and you all know it. The premise of a world in a world is a cool idea, but the action scenes and special effects are why that movie was popular. If you want to see a better rendition plotwise of the premise watch the 13th floor that came out around the same time. Its not an action movie though so its not even trying to do the same things.

Not really. The machine's motive might not make sense to us humans, but machines don't think like humans. It's basically an unintended side effect of how the human programmers wrote the program. If there's a glitch/design flaw in the program, the machine's motive could be anything.

The action an special effects were not the only thing that made it good. It's a very interesting premise and the way the movie gradually revealed the truth made it fascinating to watch for the first time, to me anyway.

So for me, the Matrix was mostly about the flash. Reloaded delivered more of the same. The action sequences with the car chase and the Neo fight with Meriovengian are really entertaining and over the top fun. Where it stumbled is that it took a ridiculous but sort of acceptable story and just ran it right off the tracks into weirdo town. Ghosts and werewolves and rogue programs and the keymaker and the architect or whatever...ugh. And that dance sequence, mother of god fire your editor. And all the self important preaching by characters. The movie wants me to say "this is serious business here" and put on a grave expression...but its so goofy it just makes you laugh. There were enough cool fights that it was worth watching but if its on TV or HBO I just watch the car chase / Neo goon fight and turn it off. The rest is just bad.

I somewhat agree with you here. The story was convoluted and overly complicated but the good thing about that is you pick up more when you watch it again. The action and style was awesome and very unique and to me that alone can make a good movie.

Revolutions is just terrible though. I remember one cool but short zero G fight with the Mirovengian goons and the rest of it took place in nap-inducing meat space and involves a lot of really bad dialog and sequences of those ships flying around. Don't mention the dragon ball Z finale because you know its crap. Neo flying sucks and a whole flying fight sucks even more. Its a Matrix movie without the fucking Matrix. And they spend all this time developing throwaway characters and political bullshit. And its just terrible and not clever. You're suppose to be surprised at the outcome but you just want that stupid mech shooting sequence to end already.

Agreed. This movie sucked ass.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Nah. I think they should explain that they needed the unused brainpower of the humans (for whatever reason). The "idea" that humans are used for energy is nonsense.

Of all the species on earth, humans have the least efficient biology and give off enough heat to collect and power machines?

Also, liquefying humans and feeding them back for "infinite energy" violates the laws of thermodynamics. It's just silly.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
I agree completely. Also, I feel the same way about Star Wars. Phantom Menace was all just useless exposition; Attack of the Clones is really the pinnacle of the saga for me. Really excellent film. People always say the old ones are better. Are they blind? The special effects are crap!

/troll

Thanks for the indicator at the end. You had my blood boiling! ...and I'm NOT a Star Wars enthusiast.
 

DrewSG3

Senior member
Feb 7, 2005
366
48
91
Although not as good as the first, I thought the car chase scene in Reloaded was one of the best ever
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,605
3
81
I just never understood why the machines just didn't build huge solar panels on tall poles above the cloud cover. They could obviously build things!