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I just read that you can't build muscle if your calorie output is more than your input.
- Thread starter BigToque
- Start date
MikeyIs4Dcats
Lifer
sounds logical...it take energy to burn fat and build muscle, and it's always been said it is harder to build muscle than make fat.
MobiusPizza
Platinum Member
hmm I just know you need to have enough protein input
If output more than input then it's a bit bad as you will grow thiner. But since body burns fat in desparate before protein I think if you don't starved for long it would be fine.
Still a good diet beats everything
If output more than input then it's a bit bad as you will grow thiner. But since body burns fat in desparate before protein I think if you don't starved for long it would be fine.
Still a good diet beats everything
Wonderful Pork
Golden Member
Edit: seems I misread the statement. Body will burn fats before protien. Sorry.
MobiusPizza
Platinum Member
hm weird that's not what the Biology book tell me but well
MobiusPizza
Platinum Member
so you gotta eat a lot when you try to build up, esp protein rich?
purbeast0
No Lifer
people who say that are wrong.
the correct way to do this is cycle in a bulking and leaning phase. bulk up for 2 months, go on a lean cycle for 2 months. when you burn fat, YOU WILL ALSO BURN MUSCLE. its just a simple fact of life.
when people get ripped, they lose muscle while doing it. they just may appear bigger because their muscle is much more cut than when they were heavier.
Yup but once your fat gets low you will rip away muscle.
bodybuilders lose muscle when they get ripped for competition.
MY brothers buddy goes from about 180 to 145 when he competes and by the time the competition rolls around he's WEAK, some of thats water too.
Eats like pig pig when he's muscle building then sacrifices some muscle getting ripped up for competition.
bodybuilders lose muscle when they get ripped for competition.
MY brothers buddy goes from about 180 to 145 when he competes and by the time the competition rolls around he's WEAK, some of thats water too.
Eats like pig pig when he's muscle building then sacrifices some muscle getting ripped up for competition.
AbAbber2k
Diamond Member
Generally speaking, no, you cannot build muscle with a significant calorie deficit. As has been said, muscle building is an energy requiring process. When your body doesn't have any energy, it looks to internal stores for it, ie: muscle and fat.
purbeast0 is right on the mark. Your best bet is to cycle your diet/training to focus on one thing at a time. Some people swear the best way is to lose fat first, then build muscle. Other people say it's best to bulk up big and then lose fat. Personally I'd go with the later.
purbeast0 is right on the mark. Your best bet is to cycle your diet/training to focus on one thing at a time. Some people swear the best way is to lose fat first, then build muscle. Other people say it's best to bulk up big and then lose fat. Personally I'd go with the later.
alkemyst
No Lifer
There is a lot more to this than almost everyone here is saying and most are oblivious to the concepts. It'd be basically a three page essay on the general concepts behind this...there are a lot of variables though and the OP should look into reading about it.
You can be on a calorie deficient diet and still gain muscle. What you don't want to do is go too far below your basic caloric need. When you do that you will go in to 'fasting mode'. In fasting mode you body uses up a lot of muscle (like in bad spots like the heart) as well as resist giving up fat.
Fat stores are used for long term/aerobic activity. If you keep your heart rate around 60% of max for 20 mins you will start tapping into the fat storage more than your glycogen which is used for short term/anaerobic activity.
I lose more fat than cardio when I am training heavy, esp legs a lot. This doesn't do anything for my heart though.
If you are losing wieght it's normal to lose small amounts of muscle if done right. If done wrong you can lose a ton of muscle. I lost about 90lbs in 3 months. I am not sure exactly how much muscle was lost, but I used to be around 190lbs at 5-6% bodyfat (5'10")...after this I end up 175ish at a bit higher bodyfat.
Idealy if you want to build a lot of muscle you have to train, eat, and most importantly sleep. You don't actually get the gains until you are sleeping...if you are spending 2 hours in the gym and only 4 asleep you are not getting good gains.
Å
You can be on a calorie deficient diet and still gain muscle. What you don't want to do is go too far below your basic caloric need. When you do that you will go in to 'fasting mode'. In fasting mode you body uses up a lot of muscle (like in bad spots like the heart) as well as resist giving up fat.
Fat stores are used for long term/aerobic activity. If you keep your heart rate around 60% of max for 20 mins you will start tapping into the fat storage more than your glycogen which is used for short term/anaerobic activity.
I lose more fat than cardio when I am training heavy, esp legs a lot. This doesn't do anything for my heart though.
If you are losing wieght it's normal to lose small amounts of muscle if done right. If done wrong you can lose a ton of muscle. I lost about 90lbs in 3 months. I am not sure exactly how much muscle was lost, but I used to be around 190lbs at 5-6% bodyfat (5'10")...after this I end up 175ish at a bit higher bodyfat.
Idealy if you want to build a lot of muscle you have to train, eat, and most importantly sleep. You don't actually get the gains until you are sleeping...if you are spending 2 hours in the gym and only 4 asleep you are not getting good gains.
Å
Are you refering to Ketosis when you talk about "fasting mode"? Your body will only burn up muscles during Ketosis if you are calorie deficient / lack protein. If you maintain protein but lack carbohydrates, Ketosis will burn fat. Either way, Ketosis is something that can be very dangerous.
Also, did I read you right that you said you lose more fat when you are lifting than when you are doing cardio?
MmmSkyscraper
Diamond Member
AFAIK, bigger muscles use more calories all the time, not just when you're working out.
Fritzo
Lifer
Your statement is correct. You can not build muscle mass and lose weight at the same time. This is why when you're planning on getting into shape, you need to do a bunch of cardio workouts first, get down to your target weight, THEN start pumping the iron and increasing your caloric intake.
You can tone while dumping weight, but your muscles won't grow very much.
This reminds me of those fat guys you always see at the gym going right to the ab machines. All they're doing is making their ab muscles bigger and pushing the fat on top of them out more 🙂
You can tone while dumping weight, but your muscles won't grow very much.
This reminds me of those fat guys you always see at the gym going right to the ab machines. All they're doing is making their ab muscles bigger and pushing the fat on top of them out more 🙂
Accipiter22
Banned
you can't GAIN weight if what you said is true. You CAN build muscle, although it's exxxtremely hard. It is possible however, it's probably easier when you first start working out. If you're using more than you're taking in your body can use your fat stores, while simultaneously building muscle. It's very very hard to do however.
MmmSkyscraper
Diamond Member
Yeah, you should get some CV going too 🙂 I forgot to put that.
HumblePie
Lifer
It just depends. Your body needs energy. Energy is only from calories in the form of sugar which gets broken down into ATP. Sugar can be made fromt carbs, fat, or protien. In that order is the same order of ease of break down and what the body would rather use.
First and foremost, your body would prefer to use any energy input directly from food BEFORE taking anything stored in the body. If you are looking to lose fat weight and gain muscle weight, eating MORE calories then what you burn is not the answer. You will gain both. I've seen it.
If you want to lose fat weight AND gain muscle, you need to eat LESS overall calories then what you burn. This forces the body to go into reserves. The only reserves for energy your body has is fat and protein. Protein is stored in muscles and is hard to break down. Your body will burn fat BEFORE it burns muscle. The idiotic comment above about the reverse is not true. I don't know where he pulled that from in his arse but it's not true.
However, to build muscles, you need protein and lots of WATER. You work out to break down the micro protein chains stored within each muscle cell. This forces your body to rebuild those chains in a way that is more resistant to being broken again. It also stores more water in the muscle as a cushion and to add density while it's trying to stuff more protein chains into the muscle cells you have. So if you don't have sufficient protein and water intake you will NOT build muscle size and strength. You will only add definition because you body can only rebuild with what it has. So eating extra carbs isn't really the way to go, but protein is.
Now as for burning fat.. you can go overboard with taking in less calories then you burn. You WANT to do this if you want to lose fat weight. However, once the fat weight is gone.... you will start stripping muscle. It's a hard balancing act.
Personally, I would start off on a protien and light carb diet for 2 to 3 weeks only eating about half as much as you burn out. This is hard the very first 3 to 5 days as it takes that long to jump start your body into burning stored fat for energy. Your body doesn't start producing glucogen until 3 days after a deficit of lower calorie intake for calories being burned. After that, work your way back up eating more and more until you are even with intake versus output. This is for 2 weeks.
At this point, you need to decide if you have lost sufficient fat weight or need to lose more. If you need to lose more.. continue on the just barely under.. yah it takes awhile but it's much healthier to do it this way. Done correctly, I've seen a very obese man lose TONS of fat weight in a matter of months. I'm talking going from 400+ lbs to 200 pounds in about 3 months or so... Only problem is I think he went toooo fast since his skin didn't have time to shrink fast enough from the fat weight he was losing. He had a bunch of lose skin that took awhile to lose. If it had been worse he probably would have needed surgery to tuck it.
Seriously though... taking in about half as much calories, and most of it being protien in nature, about 75% I'd say during the first 2 weeks.. you will burn fat and start making muscle. Then increment yoru intake up for 2 weeks until you are even so you can burn the rest of any fat away and gain muscle much more quickly. After that.. go with just about any plan you want for normal muscle gain and wight maintance.
First and foremost, your body would prefer to use any energy input directly from food BEFORE taking anything stored in the body. If you are looking to lose fat weight and gain muscle weight, eating MORE calories then what you burn is not the answer. You will gain both. I've seen it.
If you want to lose fat weight AND gain muscle, you need to eat LESS overall calories then what you burn. This forces the body to go into reserves. The only reserves for energy your body has is fat and protein. Protein is stored in muscles and is hard to break down. Your body will burn fat BEFORE it burns muscle. The idiotic comment above about the reverse is not true. I don't know where he pulled that from in his arse but it's not true.
However, to build muscles, you need protein and lots of WATER. You work out to break down the micro protein chains stored within each muscle cell. This forces your body to rebuild those chains in a way that is more resistant to being broken again. It also stores more water in the muscle as a cushion and to add density while it's trying to stuff more protein chains into the muscle cells you have. So if you don't have sufficient protein and water intake you will NOT build muscle size and strength. You will only add definition because you body can only rebuild with what it has. So eating extra carbs isn't really the way to go, but protein is.
Now as for burning fat.. you can go overboard with taking in less calories then you burn. You WANT to do this if you want to lose fat weight. However, once the fat weight is gone.... you will start stripping muscle. It's a hard balancing act.
Personally, I would start off on a protien and light carb diet for 2 to 3 weeks only eating about half as much as you burn out. This is hard the very first 3 to 5 days as it takes that long to jump start your body into burning stored fat for energy. Your body doesn't start producing glucogen until 3 days after a deficit of lower calorie intake for calories being burned. After that, work your way back up eating more and more until you are even with intake versus output. This is for 2 weeks.
At this point, you need to decide if you have lost sufficient fat weight or need to lose more. If you need to lose more.. continue on the just barely under.. yah it takes awhile but it's much healthier to do it this way. Done correctly, I've seen a very obese man lose TONS of fat weight in a matter of months. I'm talking going from 400+ lbs to 200 pounds in about 3 months or so... Only problem is I think he went toooo fast since his skin didn't have time to shrink fast enough from the fat weight he was losing. He had a bunch of lose skin that took awhile to lose. If it had been worse he probably would have needed surgery to tuck it.
Seriously though... taking in about half as much calories, and most of it being protien in nature, about 75% I'd say during the first 2 weeks.. you will burn fat and start making muscle. Then increment yoru intake up for 2 weeks until you are even so you can burn the rest of any fat away and gain muscle much more quickly. After that.. go with just about any plan you want for normal muscle gain and wight maintance.