I just dont get it. Regarding Education in Texas

[digitalsm]

What brain dead moron in Texas came up with the states Technology Immersion initiative designed to provide all sixth- through 12th-grade students with laptop computers by fall 2011. For school and home use. Macs no less.

Yes, lets waste money equipping every student with a laptop. When there is already a problem funding education in Texas. WTF are these idiots thinking. Is it just me or do people running public education, think computers solve everything? They dont. In fact they are not all that beneficial to teaching. Laptops will not provide a better education. The costs for the school districts should go to hiring MORE teachers, instead of cutting teachers.

Ill be pissed if they try to raise sales taxes or property taxes, when Robin Hood is declared unconstitutional. Stop pissing money away, and maybe there wouldnt be a problem with finding money to fund poor school districts, without pillaging the rich ones.

 

[ElFenix]

Is it just me or do people running public education, think computers solve everything?

yes

 

[gsaldivar]

Until our students can master the simple BASICS (reading, writing, arithmetic), I don't think our schools have any business teaching ANYTHING else.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: gsaldivar
Until our students can master the simple BASICS (reading, writing, arithmetic), I don't think our schools have any business teaching ANYTHING else.

:beer:

CkG

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Is it just me or do people running public education, think computers solve everything?

yes

They largely think money solves all problems.

 

[digitalsm]

Right now its only beginning a trial run, for 3 years(still a huge waste of money), although, they like I said are hoping to provide all sixth- through 12th-grade students with laptop computers by fall 2011. I hope this trial run fails, and the legislature is forced to not further implement the program.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: digitalsm
What brain dead moron in Texas came up with the states Technology Immersion initiative designed to provide all sixth- through 12th-grade students with laptop computers by fall 2011. For school and home use. Macs no less.

Yes, lets waste money equipping every student with a laptop. When there is already a problem funding education in Texas. WTF are these idiots thinking. Is it just me or do people running public education, think computers solve everything? They dont. In fact they are not all that beneficial to teaching. Laptops will not provide a better education. The costs for the school districts should go to hiring MORE teachers, instead of cutting teachers.

Ill be pissed if they try to raise sales taxes or property taxes, when Robin Hood is declared unconstitutional. Stop pissing money away, and maybe there wouldnt be a problem with finding money to fund poor school districts, without pillaging the rich ones.

Welcome to the "Dave" side

 

[burnedout]

I work with TEA folks and this is the first I've heard of it. At any rate, there are other tech-related initiatives on the table.

I'll ask about this tomorrow.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: burnedout
I work with TEA folks and this is the first I've heard of it. At any rate, there are other tech-related initiatives on the table.

I'll ask about this tomorrow.

It was Senate Bill 396. Passed unanimously. It starts a pilot program, for 3 years. With future goals of what I stated. Its going to cost ~$3million per school district participating in the pilot program, up to a million can come in grants from the TEA tapping a federal govt FCC fund for technology in education. The pilot program will track alot of different data. But knowing the state govt, even if it fails to improve educations, they will still adopt it permenantly as its backed by the tech industry in Texas, and has full support from the TEA. Its nothing but a waste of money IMHO. I mean Bryan ISD, a poor school district is one of the pilot districts, they are getting a $350,000 grant. And then have to fork over the rest out of their own budget. A budget that is currently being subsidized by College Station, by close to $1million per year thanks to Robin Hood. BISD also has to cut $500,000 from their budget for next year. If Robin Hood is ruled unconstitutional by the State Supreme Court, they will have to make drastic cuts, due to the loss of money from College Station.

School disricts can't afford this now. Nor will they be able to afford this years from now. Its a huge waste of many for very little gain.

 

[Jhhnn]

Until our students can master the simple BASICS (reading, writing, arithmetic), I don't think our schools have any business teaching ANYTHING else.

So, uhh, whatcha gonna do with the vast majority of kids who do learn that stuff early on?

Some of the biggest reasons for dropping out are boredom and lack of relevancy in the curriculum- so we should intensify those factors?

Buying every kid a laptop will probably be a helluva lot cheaper than providing teachers and facilities by 2011- laptops will likely cost a coupla hundred bucks by then. It's not throwing money at the problem, at all- it's just an attempt to provide a cheap and saleable placebo that'll satisfy the voters.

It's the same problem all over the country- you can't have low taxes, particularly for the ultra wealthy, and good schools, roads and other services all at the same time. In Texas, you can't execute scores of prisoners at the rate of several million dollars apiece while thinking it's a good way to allocate resources, either...

 

[SuperTool]

It's a waste of money. I would ban calculators too.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Until our students can master the simple BASICS (reading, writing, arithmetic), I don't think our schools have any business teaching ANYTHING else.

So, uhh, whatcha gonna do with the vast majority of kids who do learn that stuff early on?

Some of the biggest reasons for dropping out are boredom and lack of relevancy in the curriculum- so we should intensify those factors?

Buying every kid a laptop will probably be a helluva lot cheaper than providing teachers and facilities by 2011- laptops will likely cost a coupla hundred bucks by then. It's not throwing money at the problem, at all- it's just an attempt to provide a cheap and saleable placebo that'll satisfy the voters.

It's the same problem all over the country- you can't have low taxes, particularly for the ultra wealthy, and good schools, roads and other services all at the same time. In Texas, you can't execute scores of prisoners at the rate of several million dollars apiece while thinking it's a good way to allocate resources, either...

Well the majority of Texas students do not graduate with a proper grasp of basic algebra or english, so to say that the vast majority of kids learn it early on is quite FALSE. As for lack of relevancy in the curriculum. They dont teach the curriculum anymore. They teach to standardized tests. As for laptops being cheaper than teachers and facilities. Facilities have NEVER really been a problem, as districts get bonds passed quite often to build new ones, even for poor school districts. As for teachers, a computer in no way makes up for a teacher. Its not even a band aid. This doesnt do ANYTHING to improve education.

Also while nationally its more expensive to execute someone than sentencing someone to life, its not exactly the same in Texas. Its not much more expensive in Texas to execute someone than it is to sentence them to life in prison. Yes the "average" is $2.3million, but thats because a handful of cases skew the avg. Most do not surpass a $1million. Texas is QUITE efficient at pushing through appeals quickly and executing people. Also Texas is almost dead last on the amount of spending per inmate per year. It used to be even less until the Federal Govt stepped in in the 1980s.

As for low taxes for the "rich". In Texas education is funded by the Permenant School Fund(natural gas leases on state property) and property taxes. Almost every place is at the max tax rate under Texas law. Then on top of that, the rich districts, who are practically all at the max tax rate, have to give several hundred thousand to a million a year to poor school districts.

This plan will piss away millions the school districts and the state do not have, even under Robin Hood. Let alone what ever new ponsi scheme the state legislature comes up with later this year in a special session.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
So, uhh, whatcha gonna do with the vast majority of kids who do learn that stuff early on?

Advanced Reading
Advanced Writing
Advanced Arithmetic

Some of the biggest reasons for dropping out are boredom and lack of relevancy in the curriculum- so we should intensify those factors?

I don't think schools should be concerned with adjusting their curriculum to conform to the preference of the student.

If high standards and a rigid curriculum were causing high dropout rates, then you might have a point. But if you look at the current track records of fundamental and private schools, where standards and expectations are kept high - you'll see that students of all socioeconomic backgrounds perform very well, and dropout rates are low.

 

[Martin]

Didn't they do this in Minesota or somewhere? it really shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[Siddhartha]

Every student needs know how to read, write, and do math. Knowing how to use a computer belongs in the same skill set. If you do not know how to use a computer or you have a fear of it you are at a similar disavantage as if you did not know how to do math.

 

[burnedout]

I mean Bryan ISD, a poor school district is one of the pilot districts, they are getting a $350,000 grant. And then have to fork over the rest out of their own budget. A budget that is currently being subsidized by College Station, by close to $1million per year thanks to Robin Hood. BISD also has to cut $500,000 from their budget for next year. If Robin Hood is ruled unconstitutional by the State Supreme Court, they will have to make drastic cuts, due to the loss of money from College Station.

Robin Hood sucks. Our ISD, Austin ISD is also considered a "rich" district yet we experienced a budget shortfall this past year.

The basic idea behind Chapters 41/43 doesn't trouble me nearly as much as the underlying corruption. For example, homeowners in many of the so-called "rich" districts pay the $1.50/$100 school tax while homeowners in numerous "poor" districts do not. Property value assessments aren't uniform from district to district either.

Someday, they'll repeal this unfair POS socialist initiative.

 

[chess9]

I agree with you. Kids need basic tools by an order of magnitude rather than sophisticated tools. Give your kid a rag doll, not a Nintendo; a soccer ball and not Tribes II; etc.

This is wrong on so many levels....

-Robert

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Every student needs know how to read, write, and do math. Knowing how to use a computer belongs in the same skill set. If you do not know how to use a computer or you have a fear of it you are at a similar disavantage as if you did not know how to do math.

you give kids a computer and all they do is chat on the internet or draw pictures. being taught a computer skill should be secondary to making sure the kids can read, do math, and think. the computer doesn't help any of those in a cost effective manner.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Every student needs know how to read, write, and do math. Knowing how to use a computer belongs in the same skill set. If you do not know how to use a computer or you have a fear of it you are at a similar disavantage as if you did not know how to do math.

I agree to an extent. But giving every kid a laptop? A kid can learn how to use a computer in a lab just fine, they don't need a laptop. I know PCs better than most people, and I never had a laptop. If you stuck to the traditional desktop lab model, you'd have cheaper but faster computers and would need to purchase less of them. The laptops WILL get stolen, broken, parts will be missing...this is a high school remember, not a major corporation. Kids break crap, I know, I removed banana's from floppy drives at my highschool and everything else.

Granted, I don't live in Texas...but I imagine the same fiscal irresponsibility goes on there that does here. I was dumbfounded to find that my former highschool created a massive expansion project adding a new gym, labs, complex dome architecture...and then had a series of PCs in a lab using flat screen LCD monitors, another lab with laptops that remain in the lab. I was left wondering, who made these totally irresponsible decisions?

LCD monitors cost 4 times as much as a comparable CRT, laptops that don't go anywhere defeat the purpose of a laptop and cost more to boot. The complicated architecture was unnecessary, the old gym worked fine considering the small number of students there. These items are luxuries. The students didn't need a LCD monitor to learn how to use PCs. And in the face of this, costs are cut by eliminating Home Economics and cutting back other parts of the curriculum...because they are overbudget.

I swear...we would be better off if we paid top dollar for a professional finiacal planner to cut costs where possible and streamline the schools. The money they might save would probably offset the cost of his/her salary and more. Its frustrating to see kids to poor in math while they buy new laptops. Education is underfunded, but its bigger problem is that its poorly managed. We don't need new laptops when our science books are 50 years old.

 

[ElFenix]

LCD monitors cost 4 times as much as a comparable CRT

TCO may be lower... LCDs don't suck up as much energy when used and (as a consequence) don't put out nearly as much heat, which decreases AC bills. plus, if an LCD 'dies,' all you do is replace the backlight and it works just fine again.


but i pretty much agree with the rest of your post


EDIT: wow you've got science books 50 years old? ours all fell apart after 3 years of use! i guess they don't make em like they used to!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

At least no child is left behind.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

LCD monitors cost 4 times as much as a comparable CRT

TCO may be lower... LCDs don't suck up as much energy when used and (as a consequence) don't put out nearly as much heat, which decreases AC bills. plus, if an LCD 'dies,' all you do is replace the backlight and it works just fine again.


but i pretty much agree with the rest of your post


EDIT: wow you've got science books 50 years old? ours all fell apart after 3 years of use! i guess they don't make em like they used to!

I was exaggerating on the science books, I don't remember the actual age...it WAS at least 10 years for many of them though. Which is a lot considering how fast science advances.

Good point on LCDs, I hadn't thought of that. Of course I live in vermont, so we could use the extra heat! Our schools don't have AC. I still think given the initial cost, you're better off with CRTs now. They're higher quality IMO. If cost comes down more on LCDs I might change my opinion.

 

[Jhhnn]

Lemme see... only an average of $2.3M to execute a prisoner in Texas? OK, let's go with that, say it takes 6 years- that's $400K/yr, right now, as opposed to a much lesser cost/year over the natural lifespan of an inmate. Figure it high, at $40K/year. If the over $2M difference were invested during that timespan, it would provide for the care and feeding of that prisoner in perpetuity, with a surplus returned to the State's coffers every year... and the principal would remain...

As to relevance in the curriculum, that's not about student preference, but rather about preparing them for the world in which they'll live. High school graduates don't know anything about compound interest, household budgeting, contractual obligations of basic parenting and societal skills. Few understand mass marketing or distribution or any other aspect of the business world, and even fewer have the vaguest idea what makes their car go, other than putting gas in the tank... but they just finished reading Great Expectations and aced their physics final on wave motion... And these are the good students...

Boredom sets in when the subject matter has nothing to do with the student's life or interests, when it has no relevance to their perceived needs or aspirations...

 

[gsaldivar]

As to relevance in the curriculum, that's not about student preference, but rather about preparing them for the world in which they'll live. High school graduates don't know anything about compound interest, household budgeting, contractual obligations of basic parenting and societal skills ... mass marketing or distribution or any other aspect of the business world, and even fewer have the vaguest idea what makes their car go, other than putting gas in the tank ... Boredom sets in when the subject matter has nothing to do with the student's life or interests, when it has no relevance to their perceived needs or aspirations

From K-12, teachers have a finite amount of time in which to give students a solid academic foundation. Every time we introduce new subject matter into the curriculum, the amount of time which teachers have to teach the basic subjects is REDUCED.

In my opinion, the problem with K-12 education in the United States isn't the lack of money being invested into the system, or the lack of modern facilities, or the lack of technology, or the lack of teachers: The problem lies in the school curriculum itself.

Throughout the years, countless failed experiments have resulted in a curriculum so overburdened and complex, it amazes me that teachers have been able to graduate as many students as they do. Not only must teachers cover the basics, but they must also struggle to teach COUNTLESS other extracurricular and sociopolitical subjects that do little to address the basic need for COMMUNICATION SKILLS.

Why waste time trying to teach students Drama, Community Service, Marching Band, Choir, Woodworking, Automotive Repair, Leadership, Sports, Typing, Computers etc. when large percentages of existing graduates lack BASIC COMMUNICATION SKILLS required to perform anything more involved than menial labor?

By a "vast majority" the "bored" high school dropouts aren't the students who currently excel in their studies. They are the ones who never took their studies seriously to begin with.

In order to prepare students to tackle more demanding/better paying jobs requiring technically proficient workers, it's essential that we at least provide students a SOLID GRASP OF THE BASICS - and a sense of academic accomplishment IN THESE BASICS which instills the motivation and persistence to tackle complex problems later on in life.

We aren't helping ANY of our students by watering down a time-tested and proven curriculum of "reading, writing, arithmetic" with less-demanding, less-intensive, conceptually vacuous, extracurricular activities which are more palatable to the modern student's sensitive taste.

:beer:

 

[digitalsm]

OT in my own post, sorta. It looks like there will be a special session called after the April 13 run off races. Personally I think they should wait until they have a solid viable plan to enact. Instead they want to rush something, anything, through so they wont have to spend time in Austin during the summer.