<<
<< Israel
Total Loans and Grants 1946-99: US$28,927,400,000
Egypt
Total Loans and Grants 1946-99: US$27,270,600,000 >>
Talk about bad investments!! That's our money they are giving to those assholes. >>
You bet...but wasn't there a stretch of time when we feared Egypt would become communist/sympathetic to communists?
<< LOL -
and I wonder how much of those "loans" ever got repaid. >>
Also from the site.
Egypt's got an outstanding loan balance of US$5,774,700,000, while Israel's outstanding loan balance is $909,000,000
Yup, believe it or not, there are leftist Israeli's who actually don't want peace with Palestinians, but would rather see them wiped out.
As previously noted these are not Leftists but Rightist/religous zealotry was the impetus for Rabin's assassin.
As for your sum of grants and aid to Egypt and Israel you should probably consider the Suez Canal.
Many countries of the world were able to use the Cold War to their advantage by receiving competing assistance from both sides in the war. Egypt was no different than these many other underdeveloped nations in that it wanted to use the Cold War to its advantage as well.
As previously noted these are not Leftists but Rightist/religous zealotry was the impetus for Rabin's assassin.
As for your sum of grants and aid to Egypt and Israel you should probably consider the Suez Canal.
Many countries of the world were able to use the Cold War to their advantage by receiving competing assistance from both sides in the war. Egypt was no different than these many other underdeveloped nations in that it wanted to use the Cold War to its advantage as well.
<< Many countries of the world were able to use the Cold War to their advantage by receiving competing assistance from both sides in the war. Egypt was no different than these many other underdeveloped nations in that it wanted to use the Cold War to its advantage as well. >>
Yes, I know. That's why I pointed out the bit about us having been scared Egypt might turn communist...I believe it to have been very clever of them
Ariel Sharon should not be the one steering US policy in the Middle East. Both he and Arafat should retire.
<< One of the criticisms of Sharon?s military operation is that it is purposeless. This is not true. It has two goals. First, it is a justifiable effort to disrupt future terrorism. No society would allow suicide bombers to wreak havoc on it, and Israel should not be faulted for responding forcefully. But the scale of the operation suggests Sharon?s goals are much broader than that. Israeli forces have ransacked and destroyed the Palestinian Statistics Bureau, the Education Ministry and other public buildings. They have destroyed the compounds of Arafat and his security chief, Jibril Rajoub, one of the most moderate Palestinians around. >>
<< Sharon is, in other words, obliterating the Palestinian Authority. This makes little sense if you assume his goal is deterring terrorism. After all, chaos and destruction could easily produce more terrorism, not less?as Sharon?s last major military operation, the invasion of Lebanon, demonstrated. But Sharon?s real aim is to cripple the PA, and thus crush the instrument of collective Palestinian nationalism. Even if there remained some rump entity called a Palestinian state, it would be irrelevant since Israel would stay firmly lodged in the West Bank and Gaza. >>
<< When asked what he meant when he said he was willing to make ?painful concessions? for peace, he explained that he would be willing not to reoccupy Palestinian towns in the West Bank and Gaza. Since his election as prime minister, 34 new settlements have been built, which violate not only the Oslo accords but also Sharon?s own agreement with his coalition government. >>
<< Sharon?s goals are not America?s. Bush has called for a Palestinian state that, along with Israel, has secure borders. He has criticized the building and expansion of settlements. He has also asked that Israel ease up on checkpoints and searches that humiliate and enrage Palestinians. These goals are not simply in America?s best interest, they are also in Israel?s. >>
Interesting read: Newsweek
<< One of the criticisms of Sharon?s military operation is that it is purposeless. This is not true. It has two goals. First, it is a justifiable effort to disrupt future terrorism. No society would allow suicide bombers to wreak havoc on it, and Israel should not be faulted for responding forcefully. But the scale of the operation suggests Sharon?s goals are much broader than that. Israeli forces have ransacked and destroyed the Palestinian Statistics Bureau, the Education Ministry and other public buildings. They have destroyed the compounds of Arafat and his security chief, Jibril Rajoub, one of the most moderate Palestinians around. >>
<< Sharon is, in other words, obliterating the Palestinian Authority. This makes little sense if you assume his goal is deterring terrorism. After all, chaos and destruction could easily produce more terrorism, not less?as Sharon?s last major military operation, the invasion of Lebanon, demonstrated. But Sharon?s real aim is to cripple the PA, and thus crush the instrument of collective Palestinian nationalism. Even if there remained some rump entity called a Palestinian state, it would be irrelevant since Israel would stay firmly lodged in the West Bank and Gaza. >>
<< When asked what he meant when he said he was willing to make ?painful concessions? for peace, he explained that he would be willing not to reoccupy Palestinian towns in the West Bank and Gaza. Since his election as prime minister, 34 new settlements have been built, which violate not only the Oslo accords but also Sharon?s own agreement with his coalition government. >>
<< Sharon?s goals are not America?s. Bush has called for a Palestinian state that, along with Israel, has secure borders. He has criticized the building and expansion of settlements. He has also asked that Israel ease up on checkpoints and searches that humiliate and enrage Palestinians. These goals are not simply in America?s best interest, they are also in Israel?s. >>
Interesting read: Newsweek
Israel
Total Loans and Grants 1946-99: US$28,927,400,000
Egypt
Total Loans and Grants 1946-99: US$27,270,600,000
I dont think those numbers are right. When I researched it a couple weeks ago, we were giving about $3 billion annually for a total of around $95 billion total to israel. I posted the numbers.
Total Loans and Grants 1946-99: US$28,927,400,000
Egypt
Total Loans and Grants 1946-99: US$27,270,600,000
I dont think those numbers are right. When I researched it a couple weeks ago, we were giving about $3 billion annually for a total of around $95 billion total to israel. I posted the numbers.
Lucky's Post
No, these numbers are right.
I pulled your post. You stated an aid level of 3.5 billion/yr.
The total outstanding indebtness is correct.
You were probably figuring 3.5 Billion from 1948 onwards and/or not accounting for repayment.
Or
You're still a dumb ass!
No, these numbers are right.
I pulled your post. You stated an aid level of 3.5 billion/yr.
The total outstanding indebtness is correct.
You were probably figuring 3.5 Billion from 1948 onwards and/or not accounting for repayment.
Or
You're still a dumb ass!
Hey b0mbrman: there's more to that page than that first line! The 909mil in unpaid loans is just Economic Assistance. There's also 1.6bil in Military Assistance.
Under "Total Econ & Mil Assistance" (As far as I can tell, the sum total of everything... although that site is pretty confusing..), I get the following numbers:
Israel: $72bil
Egypt: $52bil
Total Military Assistance makes up for almost all of this disparity:
Israel: $43bil
Egypt: $25bil
Although (again, the site is confusing, so this isn't definitive
) it appears that Egypt owes the U.S. about twice as much as Israel does, at $5.7bil versus $2.5bil.
[edit]: removed the 'e' from b0mbrman
Under "Total Econ & Mil Assistance" (As far as I can tell, the sum total of everything... although that site is pretty confusing..), I get the following numbers:
Israel: $72bil
Egypt: $52bil
Total Military Assistance makes up for almost all of this disparity:
Israel: $43bil
Egypt: $25bil
Although (again, the site is confusing, so this isn't definitive
) it appears that Egypt owes the U.S. about twice as much as Israel does, at $5.7bil versus $2.5bil. [edit]: removed the 'e' from b0mbrman
Random Variable
Lifer
- Aug 10, 2001
- 10,420
- 2
- 0
<< You were probably figuring 3.5 Billion from 1948 onwards and/or not accounting for repayment.
Or
You're still a dumb ass! >>
That wasn't nice (but it was funny
).<< Lucky's Post
No, these numbers are right.
I pulled your post. You stated an aid level of 3.5 billion/yr.
The total outstanding indebtness is correct.
You were probably figuring 3.5 Billion from 1948 onwards and/or not accounting for repayment.
Or
You're still a dumb ass! >>
I didnt figure anything you arrogant jerkoff, I pulled the numbers from multiple websites. Did I say I was accounting for repayment? Did bombrman say the figures accounted for repayment in the initial post? :Q I dont believe so! He said: Total Loans and Grants . The total of all loans and grants, as I researched them, was about $95 billion.
You were probably figuring 3.5 Billion from 1948 onwards and/or not accounting for repayment.
Do you have a problem with math? If i "figured" that I would have come up with nearly $200 billion.
Do you have a problem with math? If i "figured" that I would have come up with nearly $200 billion.
hmm I found a few more things. This obviously biased site nonetheless presents what should be verifiable facts. They put the total cost of U.S. aid to Israel at $134,791,507,200, which includes $50bil in interest, given that every dollar the U.S. gives Israel is a dollar the U.S. doesn't really have, and therefore must borrow and pay back with interest.
I found more info (appears to be written by the same people as the first link) which mentions, in particular, the Lavi fighter jet as an example of 'extra' U.S. spending on Israel that is not included in the aid figures. The funding for the Lavi (total U.S. contribution came to $1.3bil) was evidently included in DOD spending. I could not find verification of this, but this book indicates that total spending would have been $16bil if the U.S. had not canceled the project, which, despite being a 'joint' development project, never received any interest from the U.S. military, and in fact the reason for the cancellation of the Lavi was that it was too similar to the F-16, and the U.S. would rather just sell F-16s to Israel than pay Israel to re-develop the F-16. More info here. Also, there is evidence that Israel used technology from the Lavi to help the Chinese develop their J-10/F-10 fighter.
And Lucky was right. Total aid is at least $3bil a year.
<< You're still a dumb ass! >>
I found more info (appears to be written by the same people as the first link) which mentions, in particular, the Lavi fighter jet as an example of 'extra' U.S. spending on Israel that is not included in the aid figures. The funding for the Lavi (total U.S. contribution came to $1.3bil) was evidently included in DOD spending. I could not find verification of this, but this book indicates that total spending would have been $16bil if the U.S. had not canceled the project, which, despite being a 'joint' development project, never received any interest from the U.S. military, and in fact the reason for the cancellation of the Lavi was that it was too similar to the F-16, and the U.S. would rather just sell F-16s to Israel than pay Israel to re-develop the F-16. More info here. Also, there is evidence that Israel used technology from the Lavi to help the Chinese develop their J-10/F-10 fighter.
And Lucky was right. Total aid is at least $3bil a year.
<< You're still a dumb ass! >>
does nobody have anything to say about this? Especially, in particular, that 1) U.S. aid to Israel has cost the U.S. around $134bil because we're giving Israel money that we don't have; and 2) Israel gave/sold fighter jet technology, that had been developed with American money, to the Chinese?
I don't think the US should give Israel $3 Billion/year anymore...not like they're a 3rd world country or something.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
<< Especially, in particular, that 1) U.S. aid to Israel has cost the U.S. around $134bil because we're giving Israel money that we don't have; and 2) Israel gave/sold fighter jet technology, that had been developed with American money, to the Chinese? >>
If they did then all aid should be cut off immediately. Do you have any proof to back your allegation?
Personally I think it is money well spent since it keeps that putrid horde of Midlle Eastern countries from doing the ethnic/religous cleansing that they so badly want to do. Without our support every Jew in the area and Israel itself would dissapear.
<< i'm real sorry, i wish i can stay and conversate some more, but for now i have to go to work. i'll be back around 10:30 to reply to any unanswered posts (or those which have been replied to carelessly). >>
"conversate" is not a word. The verb you're looking for is "converse".
I think its interesting that zayened, the guy who started the whole thread never came back as he promised.
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