I have an opportunity to build and maintain a server for my boss, need some suggestions

[idea]

First I'd like to say I am extremely psyched about this opportunity, it took me a long time to convince him not to spend all that money at Dell or something and let me deal with it. I just need a few pushes in the right direction.

My resume: I have built several PCs for myself over the years and I am confident of my skills. I run my slackware 9.1 server at home for personal use.

I need suggestions for hardware. The box will be coloc'd, so to prevent any future trouble I am going to need to visualize what hardware the server needs to be fit for some time. I don't want to have to mail in a hard drive and have some goon take the box apart and break it. The server needs to accomodate 50-60 users at one time, transferring encrypted data. This is probably going to be CPU intensive. I will probably load up 1TB of space onto it. I figure 4x 250gb hdds, I don't think I'll be needing SCSI, but if you think otherwise let me know. I want the case to be nice and cool for the hdds to last long, so I may need some kind of extra cooling for that.

The OS, I have no idea. What I need in an OS is security, stability, etc. FreeBSD was suggested to me by someone because I am all ready familiar with linux-types and FBSD is server geared. But isn't that project dead?

The coloc company I believe I took care of all ready, I found a good price for the specs I need.

Thanks for any help you may provide.

 

[VTEC01EX]

Whatever you do, make sure you've got quality backups and redundancy... Plan on dropping a good chunk of change on a RAID 5 setup. Definitely go SCSI - consumer-grade IDE drives in that environment will likely fail. Get a nice rack-mountable case with hot-swap bays for the drives, so when you mail some goon a hard disk, he doesn't have to take ANYTHING apart Have fun battling this thing... I usually just let the vendor handle hardware. Good luck!

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: idea
What I need in an OS is security, stability, etc. FreeBSD was suggested to me by someone because I am all ready familiar with linux-types and FBSD is server geared. But isn't that project dead?

Leave /. on /.


Use SCSI. Go Dell, Compaq/HP, or IBM. 4 hour response time is nice when it's monday morning and the server craps out.

 

[Zepper]

What type of application(s) is the server going to be running or is it just going to be feeding data to local applications. Is it something where a dual processor (or more) setup might help?
. I would probably go with SCSI drives for the reliability alone. Unfortunately you will need about eight of them for a TeraByte unless you can wait a bit for the newer generation of drives to hit the pipeline (up to 300G per drive). A case like the A GPB/Athenatech 800series with a couple of 4-drive hot swap cages...
.bh.

 

[idea]

n0cmonkey, I want to build it myself.

It will be a file server mostly, and as the data is transferred it is encrypted at the same time. Dual procs are really unnecessary I'm sure. I would so love to get SCSI but I just realized that 1TB of SCSI will cost wayyyy too much Sounds like I'm going to go IDE 7200rpm and hope for the best. The data will be raided, if one messes up I'll convince the boss to spend some more money I guess.

This is beginning to sound like a regular PC in a rackmount housing running FreeBSD, but I think I'd be okay with that.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: idea
n0cmonkey, I want to build it myself.

Not important. If it is mission critical, don't. If it isn't mission critical, and it can be down until you get to it, then go right ahead. Anyways, I can't stop you, just throwing in my $.02.

It will be a file server mostly, and as the data is transferred it is encrypted at the same time. Dual procs are really unnecessary I'm sure. I would so love to get SCSI but I just realized that 1TB of SCSI will cost wayyyy too much Sounds like I'm going to go IDE 7200rpm and hope for the best. The data will be raided, if one messes up I'll convince the boss to spend some more money I guess.

This is beginning to sound like a regular PC in a rackmount housing running FreeBSD, but I think I'd be okay with that.

Again, if it isn't mission critical, IDE should be fine.

Make sure you have tape or something similar for daily backups. You'll want it whether you go SCSI or IDE. Stuff happens, be ready for it.

 

[memo]

Originally posted by: idea
n0cmonkey, I want to build it myself.

It will be a file server mostly, and as the data is transferred it is encrypted at the same time. Dual procs are really unnecessary I'm sure. I would so love to get SCSI but I just realized that 1TB of SCSI will cost wayyyy too much Sounds like I'm going to go IDE 7200rpm and hope for the best. The data will be raided, if one messes up I'll convince the boss to spend some more money I guess.

This is beginning to sound like a regular PC in a rackmount housing running FreeBSD, but I think I'd be okay with that.

what about serial ATA? a bit faster than IDE but not as costly as SCSI

 

[Varun]

I think you are crazy to not go SCSI when you want 50-60 people accessing it. RAID 5 is the only way to go.

What is your budget for a file server?

 

[John]

Originally posted by: memo

Originally posted by: idea
n0cmonkey, I want to build it myself.

It will be a file server mostly, and as the data is transferred it is encrypted at the same time. Dual procs are really unnecessary I'm sure. I would so love to get SCSI but I just realized that 1TB of SCSI will cost wayyyy too much Sounds like I'm going to go IDE 7200rpm and hope for the best. The data will be raided, if one messes up I'll convince the boss to spend some more money I guess.

This is beginning to sound like a regular PC in a rackmount housing running FreeBSD, but I think I'd be okay with that.

what about serial ATA? a bit faster than IDE but not as costly as SCSI

The only serial ATA drives that are truly faster than PATA are the WD 10K Raptors.

 

[anthrax]

Seriously, get your boss to get a Dell or HP....
2 way DL380G2
6 x 146GB 10Krpm HDD..RAID 5 (730GB usable) (use 73GB or 36GB drives if you need to stream data off them)
Windows Server 2003 ....

If the thing craps out on ya, (and yeah HW always) you can always blame it on the vendor...
Its simple "career advice"......

Consider this scenario.

if each user was paid a salary of $60,000...There hourly wage would be $US28 per user...

So if your server crapped out due to a faulty MB, if you had to fix it,

you will need 2 hours to diagnose the problem,
24 hours to get the spare parts from the cheapest website....
2 hours to put the box backto gether and get it running...thats 30 hours of down time !...
Thats gonna cost your business .... $28 *50ppl*30hours = $USD 42,000

Even if you are on good terms with your boss, if he/she gets flak for it, the only thing he can do is to fire you.

 

[drwoo123]

I agree with the other suggestions here - it makes no sense to build the hardware yourself - crap always happens when you least expect it - beyond the fact that you convinced your employer to let you do it - its not the wisest of moves - b/c in real life no one really needs to build the server themself - virtually everyone buys a server for something that is important - you need to think beyond that is cool for you - and what is best for them. Even if you take anthrax's estimate of 42K and cut it down to 10K (giving everyone near min wage) - it is still too much -

much more useful for you than building the hardware is becoming a guru with whatever NOS you decide to go with - you can build a career (sort of) - if you get good with that kind of stuff - but who wants to be a person who just knows how to screw in a hard drive - not withstanding the fact that you should know how to do it.

i think i just wrote a bunch of jumbled crap - but hey its 2:30 AM

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Varun
I think you are crazy to not go SCSI when you want 50-60 people accessing it. RAID 5 is the only way to go.

What is your budget for a file server?

Yeah. IDE is fine for most desktop workstations, but on a multi-user server - SCSI all the way!

I admit, it is cool building boxes (sometimes), I used to do it for a game company startup that I worked for during the early years, but eventually the company got big enough that it just wasn't economical to pick up parts for a couple of new boxes at a computer show on the weekend and build it for them. They just started ordering from Dell. (Mind you, this was back in the days before widespread availability of computer parts over the internet, when a Pentium-75 system cost over $1000. Most of the people in the company were coding on 486s. Some of the artists had their own Pentium or Amiga boxes though.)

One thing that you should consider though, do you want to be the businesses' tech-monkey? What is your "real" job? You don't want to get pigeonholed away, along with the co-lo hardware, just because you also have some hardware experience. I know that might sound disappointing to the "techie inside", but as far as career choices go, it might be wise. One other thing - are you willing to wear the beeper, 24/7, in case your server goes down? (Assuming that it is running mission-critical stuff 24/7.) If not, then order from Dell, etc., and leave the worry to someone else.

 

[jose]

50-60 users Need SCSI !! the system will crawl w/ that many users....... How fast can you replace a failed hd ?? 4hrs ?? You really should go w/ a Dell w/ support....
Otherwise you will have major problems when you have hardware failures ... Be ready to take all the blame when you have down time... Exactly what applications will this server be running ??

It's pretty hard to recomend anything w/out knowing exactly the server will be doing.. But whatever you do, do NOT use ide , unless your prepared to replace the disk subsystem w/ a scsi one later on when the user's start complaing how slow their brand new server is running...

Anyway if you still want to do this, may sure which ever OS you pick supports all the hardware you want to use.. I'd recomend RedHat Enterprise 3.0 w/ phone support. This version runs on up to 2 cpu's. Since this is a production environment I'd stick to Xeon's(because of OS support) & get a mobo that support dual Xeons w/ 64bit pci support .. Look at Supermicro/Tyan 7505/7501 based mobo's.

Regards,
Jose

 

[dmw16]

I can understand wanting to build the server yourself. Building machines is fun, but use your head. Dell servers are really cheap, cheaper than you could probably build. Further more, if something goes wrong and you built is, it's your a$$. If it is a dell and something goes wrong then call them and they fix it. Honestly, be smart about this. Building this machine is a big commitment and I wouldn't risk my professional reputation on it.
-doug

 

[mikecel79]

Like everyone else here said go with HP, Dell, IBM, etc for the server. Building it yourself can be fun but if it's mission critical I want redundancy everywhere. Redundant drives, fans, PSUs, etc. Hard to build that yourself and keep it under big manufacturers prices.

Yeah it'll be tough to admit to your boss that it would be better off going with a Dell server but swallow and pride and make the best choice for the company.

 

[Mik3y]

ya, i'd be terriFIRED for my life when the server craps out and the boss gets pissed...

 

[chadomaly]

For lower cost ide, check out hte Maxtor MaxLine drives:
PDF Datasheet 1

Somewhat higher cost than normal IDE, but cheaper than scsi. These drives are marketed for higher reliability than consumer drives, for servers and stuff.

Quote from Maxtor website:
Enhanced-reliability 5400 RPM and 7200 RPM ATA drives are ideal for near-line storage applications, with the dependability of SCSI and Fibre Channel drives at a fraction of their cost and with data access times, transfer rates and capacities significantly better than any tape or optical system on the market today.

Rated to exceed 1 million hours MTTF in low I/O near-line and other secondary storage applications

Also has a better warranty than normal maxtor drives.


Anyway, check them out if you dont want to spend the $$$ for scsi... it's about the best IDE you can get as far as reliability.

 

[jpeyton]

I hear crickets chirping. Did idea figure out this was not such a brilliant idea afterall?

 

[Markfw]

The very FIRST thing to consider is uptime/downtime expectations and budget. These are nowhere in this thread (from the poster).

This actually might be a very good idea, if downtime expectations were for a day or longer being OK. And if that passed the test, then the budget would determine SCSI or not. If the budget did not allow the use of SCSI, then performance expectations would need to be checked. I am a systems analyst, and have done this for 10 years, and there are WAY too many un-answered questions at this point to even start designing the hardware for the system.

 

[idea]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I hear crickets chirping. Did idea figure out this was not such a brilliant idea afterall?

Sort of, heh. Yeah I'm gonna swallow my pride and tell the boss man to give Dell a call, I didn't realize it would be this involved. SCSI will be recommended to him. I'm not sure what the budget is, he just told me to check it out and show him the numbers.

crleap, I hate Maxtor and vowed a long time ago never to buy their products again It sounds good on paper, but even if their warranty is extended on that product.. I still don't want to have to go through the trouble of RMA'ing it after 6 months of use.