I have a pretty major question and would like everyone to chime in!

[Vich]

Well while laying down in bed last night and feeling pretty crappy since ive been sick for a while i began to think about all the tons of people runnig various DC projects. I recently started running UD cancer on my girlfriends machine, while i am running SETI on my machine. Many people close to me have suffered the repreoccusions of cancer, and i began to ask myself, why did I install something like SETI which is alot of fun :beer: but really isnt for a real positive goal anymore. At first it was but not its really just become a WU race for no other reason. Alot of people run medically based programs such as F@H , however both UD-Cancer and F@H pale in comparison to the number of people that run SETI and some of the other programs. No i do not want to start a flame war but i would just like to hear peoples views on why they run one project over another. Because if we had as many people running UD-Cancer or F@H as we do SETI i really think we can get alot of work done for a goal that could help the entire world maybe not in our liftime but possibly in someone elses.

So that was just my question that i thought of last night.

Thanks i look forward to reading some very good replies!

-Rich

 

[Wiz]

I for one have always been a guy that finishes one race before starting another.
I was there at the beginning, I will continue through the end.

I don't know if I will do DC at all after seti1 is done, but if I do it will likely be in some kind of scientific program whether that be medical or other sciences I can't tell yet.

 

[Vich]

I hear ya.. what did it for me was realizing how many close people i know are at risk for cancer because it runs in there family.

If i didnt come to this realization i probably would have continued running SETI, because before i thought "what would 1 more computer do for cancer research" but after really seeing how cancer has affected the lives of many people close to me i thought, this is the least i can do to combat one of the worst medical ailments ever.


And the thought that maybe someday a cure will be found and this might all come true because people like us ran these programs 24/7 and tried to get as many people as possible to do the same.


-Rich

 

[Freewolf]

Quote

"i really think we can get alot of work done for a goal that could help the entire world maybe not in our liftime but possibly in someone elses."



That's the same reason I run seti

 

[Vich]

Correct me if im wrong freewolf but somewhere i read that the SETI information has actually all been analyzed and now its just a pure WU/machine race?? Wish i could find what thread this was in!

 

[Unforgiven]

the reason i run seti is because its simple to setup and even a novice user and contribute. some of these other DC projects are too complex and take too friggin long to complete a work unit (or whatever each project calls them). i have tried 3 or 4 different projects and i keep going back to seti because its easy to use, easy to explain to others how to get it up and running and due to the large following its fun to challenge yourself with the statistics. i have to admit however that once seti I ends im bailing because i think BOINC is going to be a crap piece of software that i cant run at my place of employment and ill be looking to join another project. but for now, im seti til the bitter end and i feel good about using my cpu for something other than just idling on instant messenger programs and mirc at night!

 

[Vich]

Unforgiven: I hear ya i tried to run another DC program before seti and i was really .


However UD-Cancer was even easier than the SETI CLI client IMO. The only thing u need to do is install it, then go to your member page and select which program! Set it and forget it!


-Rich

 

[BlackMountainCow]

I quit SETI for the exact reason u describe here Vich. I consider it being a stat race now and it has nothing to do with science any more IMHO. If they start scanning the other hemisphere, it's a different story again.

I also ran ClimatePrediction.NEt for a while till I realized, that there's not much sense in trying to get the best forecast of the climate in 2050, if in the same turn one does not try to change the crap that is happening right now with nature and pollution. I don't know how many PCs run CPDN, but the energy they need is surely contributing to the effect the project actually is examining!

Now I run DPAD. It's not for the reason to help getting this project funded. It's also not why I'm a stats whore (though it's fun, no doubt about that). For me it has a deeper interest. If the DPAD project actually gets funded and if they find out that these muon particles actually have a weight, then it'll change the picture of the current universe a lot. Cause right now the believe is that it'll expand for ever. But if the muons have weight, it might be collapsing in the end. This has some religious importance for me, as I think, that if there's a God, why would he create a universe that just expands and will end in a cold, dark place, without any life, light and movement, as even the atoms will stand still. But if it collapses again, then there's room for another creation act, another life and so on.

 

[Soggysocks]

Well, putting pen to paper...........................What if, Sir Walter"s boat sunk on the way back to England, or What if, Distillation of Crude Oil was never developed,or What if, preservatives were never used. A lot of "What ifs" in life!

Cancer has been around for a long time. But, as we know it, only became prevailent in more recent times. Even the developement of the parts that make up the computers we now play and work on, has been a contributing factor.

If you want to cure cancer.......you need to start reducing things that catylize its developement. We all seem to "Bull" ahead with new technology, without thought of end result.

As a species, we need to learn use of resources at hand, without depleating or extorting them. We need to learn effects , long and short term. The search for others in the universe, may give us some, if not, all the answers. So, as far as I'm concered, The "Search" for "Aliens" is well worth the effort.



Hope this doesn't keep you up tonight

 

[Xemus]

Here's some facts from a site that my girlfriend bought health food supplies from. I can't verify the genuinity of it, but if it's true, it's scary as hell.
The stats are based on America, not sure how it compares to the rest of the world.
"38% of Americans will get cancer.
At the turn of the century it was 3%.
By the end of the next century, it will be 100%.

Diabetes has rised 400% in 20 years.

Alzheimer's now strikes 50% of people over the age of 70.
60 years ago, it did not exist."

I'm really worried about my daughter now (she's three months old).

The only problem I have had with running d2ol or UD is that they don't use command line interfaces. I hate screensavers. If they could release a new version that runs in the background, I would gladly jump on that boat.

I mostly quit SETI for the same reasons Vich and Blackmountaincow describe (I still have it installed on the server at work, crunching 14 Wu's a day, probably til the end of SETI 1).

 

[Freewolf]

I remember seeing a way on the d2ol forums to run client if I'm not misstaken. Maybe ask Geoff about it.

 

[Vich]

Xemus- The UD-Cancer agent does not need to run as a screensaver, its running constantly in the background and it just sits minimized as a system tray!

-Rich

 

[lobadobadingdong]

Originally posted by: Xemus
Here's some facts from a site that my girlfriend bought health food supplies from. I can't verify the genuinity of it, but if it's true, it's scary as hell.
The stats are based on America, not sure how it compares to the rest of the world.
"38% of Americans will get cancer.
At the turn of the century it was 3%.
By the end of the next century, it will be 100%.

Diabetes has rised 400% in 20 years.

Alzheimer's now strikes 50% of people over the age of 70.
60 years ago, it did not exist."

I'm really worried about my daughter now (she's three months old).

The only problem I have had with running d2ol or UD is that they don't use command line interfaces. I hate screensavers. If they could release a new version that runs in the background, I would gladly jump on that boat.

I mostly quit SETI for the same reasons Vich and Blackmountaincow describe (I still have it installed on the server at work, crunching 14 Wu's a day, probably til the end of SETI 1).

most of thse statistics are also caused by things in which we Americans excell at...being lazy, eating poorly (over 56% of americans are over 150lbs. over weight or more, according to a paper I read on cnn.com a few months back), working too much, stressing too hard over work, and on the Alzheimers thing, 60 years ago there weren't as many people over the age of 70 and when people had it, it was often mis-diagnosed as being skitso, or simply old age.

I run seti because I too like to finish what I start, I'll be runnig Folding @ Home after seti 1 finishes. (might have one cruncher still running seti to help the team tho)

 

[grendel8]

Vich;

You've raised a very valid question. Although other's motivations may differ, I like SETI because the feedback is concrete. I know distinctly from day to day how well my machines are producing.

I've participated in UD in the past, and although I think the goal is very worthwhile, I felt as if there was a bit too much variability in the production of my systems that I couldn't explain.

Despite my previous experience, there have been very good arguments made here. I've transfered my best single processor cruncher to the Find-A-Drug project and joined Team AnadTech.

 

[CyGoR]

The big problem with technology are the people itself.. Creating new technologies for health research and the developement of new
treatments is a great thing. But, the current docters tend to give someone antibiotics much to early! The next generation (or maybe in a
few centuries) aren't resitent to anything! The flu (spelled correctly??) can and will be deadly once again.. With our bodies counting on
a treatment with antibiotics it won't spend energie making it's own defence.. New plagues will arise if something wont happen soon..
The things like Sars or now the birdflu (or whatever that's called in English, currently being spotted in Asia) are products of mankind.
Bacteries can adapt to quickly to new antibiotics and it's just a matter of time before none of the existing antibiotics can cure them. It's a
very scary thing when this all will become reality.. For that reason, I'm glad I won't reach the age of 200+
Currently I'm studying Bio-Informatics and doing some bacterial research (Plamitic adaption etc). Very basic though cause I'm in the first year
Because of my study I'm running United Devices full time (and Seti to help my TeAm mates hold their position!). I think it's a worthy project
although they need to make a new client..

But you will never hear me say that Seti isn't a good project! Like others I'm very interested in space science and being a part of it is really nice!

The thing your asking Vich is something everyone needs to answer for themselves. It's obvious that when you see cancer making other people
suffer in your surroundings that you'll run UD (or D2OL, F@H) instead of Seti..

People are to selfdestructive..

 

[kamper]

I like the quote Freewolf has there. "Finding aliens" might not have direct benefit to humankind but I think space needs to be explored scietifically (it's kinda human nature to study whatever we have access to) and any energy thrown in that direction can't be too much of a bad thing (maybe some other incidental knowledge will be gained through seti, maybe we're just eliminating areas that we won't have to waste time and money on later).

Now if all the real crunching is done and we're just repeating ourselves (I wasn't aware of this before) that does change the picture a bit. If you don't mind me asking: where does it say that? The wu I'm crunching right now (according to SetiSpy was recorded at the end of November last year. That's fairly recent.

Anyways, even given that the crunching is now redundant it serves a few other purposes:
-keeping momentum for the next generation of seti (it's going to have a tough time anyways, given how many people plan to crunch elsewhere)
-keeping momentum for public distributed computing in general (being one of the biggest seti probably gets most of whatever publicity there is)
-it generates interest in space exploration
-it's dasm fun!
I guess what it would boil down to is whether they wanted to end the competition before BOINC was ready or if they were willing to let wu's be recrunched for all the above reasons. I know I'm staying because it would suck if everyone just sort of got bored and left, given the race we've got with BBR right now. But like many others I will be looking elsewhere when seti1 ends.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
most of thse statistics are also caused by things in which we Americans excell at...being lazy, eating poorly (over 56% of americans are over 150lbs. over weight or more, according to a paper I read on cnn.com a few months back), working too much, stressing too hard over work, and on the Alzheimers thing, 60 years ago there weren't as many people over the age of 70 and when people had it, it was often mis-diagnosed as being skitso, or simply old age.

I run seti because I too like to finish what I start, I'll be runnig Folding @ Home after seti 1 finishes. (might have one cruncher still running seti to help the team tho)

I think lobaextralongusername () hit the nail on the head here. Change in habits and people living longer will explain pretty much all of that. If people fixed their eating habits, we'd be a long way toward reducing those percentages (IMHO, but keep in mind that IANAMD).

FWIW, I run Folding@Home - 2 computers, SETI - 1 computer which will go back to F@H if or when (?) SETI 1 ends, and DPAD - 1 computer, assimilated today. I choose F@H and DPAD for benefit of mankind reasons, and SETI because I want to help my TeAmmates finish in that project as high as possible (perhaps my meager 9.5WU/day will help a bit toward that goal). Now, I do think that some of the things that the project does have scientific merit, even though I personally don't believe they'll ever find the aliens; I just put a slightly higher priority on the other issues, resulting in the distribution of CPU power I have dedicated to each cause.

 

[MDE]

I run F@H because one day, my life may be counting on the research that the project helps with. If I had more machines at my disposal, I'd run a few other projects that IMO are worthy, and maybe help SETI out .

 

[NicColt]

I don't want to P.O anyone running rc 72 but I was just over there and yesterday's rate this project will take 408,306 days to get to %100 that's 1,121 years. Putting aside the Quantum Computing BS and other fantasies, at the PRESENT rate this will be known as the absolute most mind boggling waste of resources known to man, and all this just to find a hidden Key.

I think that once SETI phase I finishes it will find a similar fate. I have 1 client running seti untill the end but my heart is with a Humanitarian DC project such as DF.

 

[Hyperfocal]

Alzheimer's now strikes 50% of people over the age of 70. 60 years ago, it did not exist."

It used to be called senility and was considered a normal part of aging.

I agree that is important to work to solve medical problems, but we are doing ourselves a disservice if we don't face reality -- things are better now. 50 years ago, if you had a heart attack, you died. If you got cancer, doctors wouldn't even tell you because it was a death sentence. When my aunt was diagnosed with cancer in the mid 1960's, the doctor sent her home and told her to get her affairs in order.


Technology can be a double edged sword, but in the developed world, it is leading to a cleaner and safer environment. Air and water pollution in the US and Europe are lower than at any time since the start of the industrial revolution. Pollution standards are much tighter than they were in the past. Look at photos of cities like LA or Pittsburgh from the 1950s and 1960s. We would never accept the levels of pollution that were commonplace then.

 

[cthulhu]

I will run seti1 till the end. I haven't decided if I will continue with Bionic. After seti1 ends, I will retire some of my pc's, might sell one for some extra $, and probably pick up a medical related dc project on two pc's. I like the whole "using spare cpu cycles for good" idea.

 

[Vich]

Originally posted by: CyGoR
The big problem with technology are the people itself.. Creating new technologies for health research and the developement of new
treatments is a great thing. But, the current docters tend to give someone antibiotics much to early! The next generation (or maybe in a
few centuries) aren't resitent to anything! The flu (spelled correctly??) can and will be deadly once again.. With our bodies counting on
a treatment with antibiotics it won't spend energie making it's own defence.. New plagues will arise if something wont happen soon..
The things like Sars or now the birdflu (or whatever that's called in English, currently being spotted in Asia) are products of mankind.
Bacteries can adapt to quickly to new antibiotics and it's just a matter of time before none of the existing antibiotics can cure them. It's a
very scary thing when this all will become reality.. For that reason, I'm glad I won't reach the age of 200+
Currently I'm studying Bio-Informatics and doing some bacterial research (Plamitic adaption etc). Very basic though cause I'm in the first year
Because of my study I'm running United Devices full time (and Seti to help my TeAm mates hold their position!). I think it's a worthy project
although they need to make a new client..

But you will never hear me say that Seti isn't a good project! Like others I'm very interested in space science and being a part of it is really nice!

The thing your asking Vich is something everyone needs to answer for themselves. It's obvious that when you see cancer making other people
suffer in your surroundings that you'll run UD (or D2OL, F@H) instead of Seti..

People are to selfdestructive..

Very good point, im a living example of this already. I am only 19 and have taken more antiobiotics as a child than most people will in an entire lifetime. Right now i try to stay away from them because my immune system is like a thin paper bag. As a child if i was sick i wasnt given a chance to strengthen my immune system, i was just given antibiotics.. and now im paying the price :disgust: :| . Doctors really need to chill out on prescribing antibiotics.

I run F@H because one day, my life may be counting on the research that the project helps with.

Monkeydriverexpress amen brother thats why i am putting my efforts into it aswell!

I don't want to P.O anyone running rc 72 but I was just over there and yesterday's rate this project will take 408,306 days to get to %100 that's 1,121 years. Putting aside the Quantum Computing BS and other fantasies, at the PRESENT rate this will be known as the absolute most mind boggling waste of resources known to man, and all this just to find a hidden Key.

Wow thats a really interesting fact Niccolt, it surely does seem like a mind boggling waste of time. And i really am not trying to flame anyone, but imagine if all that computing power was put toward something more productive, such as d2ol, F@h, UD-Cancer? Now that would really make a world of difference!


-Rich

 

[Spacehead]

Originally posted by: Vich

... and i began to ask myself, why did I install something like SETI which is alot of fun :beer: but really isnt for a real positive goal anymore. At first it was but not its really just become a WU race for no other reason.

I think you're confusing the goal of S@H(science) to the goals of individuals & teams(stats & rankings). With all that's going on lately here with our SETI team in the last few months it's easy to forget that. Seems like most other SETI team forums are that way too, stats & ranking threads & very few topics on the science going on.

Every now & again i see people that say SETI is now redundent & useless to run but i don't know if it's just "sour grapes" on their part or what but they seldom back it up with any valid points.


Plus with SETI being so popular it can lead to people finding out about other DC projects that they may not of ever heard about before

 

[Vich]

Originally posted by: Spacehead

Originally posted by: Vich

... and i began to ask myself, why did I install something like SETI which is alot of fun :beer: but really isnt for a real positive goal anymore. At first it was but not its really just become a WU race for no other reason.

I think you're confusing the goal of S@H(science) to the goals of individuals & teams(stats & rankings). With all that's going on lately here with our SETI team in the last few months it's easy to forget that. Seems like most other SETI team forums are that way too, stats & ranking threads & very few topics on the science going on.

Every now & again i see people that say SETI is now redundent & useless to run but i don't know if it's just "sour grapes" on their part or what but they seldom back it up with any valid points.


Plus with SETI being so popular it can lead to people finding out about other DC projects that they may not of ever heard about before

Great point spacehead, i hope once SETI is over more people will switch to medical DC projects like F@H, UD-Cancer etc. However, what i also was curious about is that stat & team rankings seem like an aweful waste of time sometimes (like the Prime95 and RC45 projects). Because even though its fun to compete and race it isnt for a realworld positive goal like discovering new antiobiotics or finding out how to cure a certain disease. But hey everyone has there own agenda and defentitions of "waste of time". And im pretty sure alot of people believe what i put my effort into is a waste of time. But hey thats what makes starting threads like this fun, right? :beer:

 

[Crazee]

Originally posted by: Xemus
Here's some facts from a site that my girlfriend bought health food supplies from. I can't verify the genuinity of it, but if it's true, it's scary as hell.
The stats are based on America, not sure how it compares to the rest of the world.
"38% of Americans will get cancer.
At the turn of the century it was 3%.
By the end of the next century, it will be 100%.

Diabetes has rised 400% in 20 years.

Alzheimer's now strikes 50% of people over the age of 70.
60 years ago, it did not exist."

I'm really worried about my daughter now (she's three months old).

The only problem I have had with running d2ol or UD is that they don't use command line interfaces. I hate screensavers. If they could release a new version that runs in the background, I would gladly jump on that boat.

I mostly quit SETI for the same reasons Vich and Blackmountaincow describe (I still have it installed on the server at work, crunching 14 Wu's a day, probably til the end of SETI 1).

I can tell you that at least one of the numbers above is very inaccurate and I would assume that all of them probably are not accurate.

As many as 4 million Americans currently suffer from Alzheimer's Disease. The most important risk factors for dementia are old age and a family history of dementia. The older you get, the greater your risk of developing AD.

About 10 percent of all people over 70 have significant memory problems and about half of those are due to AD. The number of people with AD doubles each decade past age 70.

I have run many projects. The main reason I chose Seti is that space exploration is terribly underfunded. The research being conducted is not only for trying to find ET, but for discovering more on Quasars, Black Holes and other things in space. For those who think everything has been covered, remember a WU only covers one point in the sky for a particular moment. The unit my machine is working on now was recorded in November of this last year. There are still new units being introduced.

Another reason is that of all the projects, Seti is very mature and most of the problems related to it have been hammered out. Once Seti is over I will examine other projects and weigh the benefits of the project with the ease of running it and determine where my CPUs go from there.

As for some of the humanitarian projects, I won't run UD because it is a for profit project. If that has changed, please correct me, but the last I saw they were going to make money off of the results. I haven't run F@H yet, but I have run DF and FaD. I enjoyed both projects and will revist them once Seti I is over.