I hate RPGs that auto level enemies to match you.

[Locut0s]

It goes against the whole feeling of how an RPG should play out. As you progress through a game you should feel more and more powerful not more and more overwhelmed. This isn't to say I don't mind a good challenge but when you are level 50 say and your being slaughtered by an army of level 50 monsters it takes the fun out of a lot of these otherwise great games. Currently I'm playing Tactic Ogre and it's fantastic! My only problem with it is the auto levelling. The story battles don't auto level, only the random encounters. So I can wipe the floor with some of the story mode battles then have my ass handed to me by 1/2 the random encounters.

 

[American Gunner]

You are wanting something that has set zones for enemy levels, right?

 

[Locut0s]

You are wanting something that has set zones for enemy levels, right?

Basically yes. As you progress through the RPG and open up more and more of the world the enemies you encounter should get tougher. But the enemies back at the opening parts of the game should now be pushovers.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I almost hated Oblivion after you level up because a wolf or bear could kill you easy since they level to match you.

 

[Rage187]

I hate that too except it is easier to grind, however it negates the benefits of grinding.

I hate rubber banding racing games too.

 

[American Gunner]

I know what you mean, and it is a shame more games aren't like this. The last game I can remember playing that was like that was Borderlands.

 

[Dumac]

Yeah, level and gear scaling completely ruined Oblivion. It was unplayable.

Hopefully Bethesda has learned and has improved Skyrim's scaling system.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah, level and gear scaling completely ruined Oblivion. It was unplayable.

Hopefully Bethesda has learned and has improved Skyrim's scaling system.

Heh that's why I used the console to cheat my way through. I couldn't take it.

 

[exdeath]

Agreed. Part of the addiction to RPGs for me is power leveling to max level, getting all the best gear and abilities for every character, etc, and enjoying legit God Mode by end game.

 

[Chops McGandhi]

I know right! If you're going to have auto level enemies than what is the point of even being able to level up?

 

[Locut0s]

Agreed. Part of the addiction to RPGs for me is power leveling to max level, getting all the best gear and abilities for every character, etc, and enjoying legit God Mode by end game.

Exactly. This never gets old for me Sadly some of the games with this type of auto levelling are still actually good games.

 

[mmntech]

It's mostly American RPGs that do this. With JRPGs, you get out what you put into them.

 

[exdeath]

Reminds me at the end of Xenogears when a 3 pixel high Fei was on foot outside his gear body slamming and beating the unholy shit out of enemies 100x his size meant for gear combat

 

[Malak]

Seriously? I LOVE auto-levelling. It was the reason I actually liked Oblivion. Why do you want the game easier? Frickin boring if you ask me.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Seriously? I LOVE auto-levelling. It was the reason I actually liked Oblivion. Why do you want the game easier? Frickin boring if you ask me.

Its true that it can negatively affect the challenge, I prefer them to put in the effort to actually come up with a good difficulty curve, instead of sticking to hardline rules.

Plus, when "zoning" the levels, you can actually make it substantially more difficult for yourself by going into higher zones at lower levels. That was one of my favorite things to do. Plus, many of these games have sections that either level with you or are given other advantages so that they remain challenging.

There are other things that can be done as well. Some enemies just should not level-match, while it would make sense for others to, or at a reduced rate. Maybe offer random encounters that do level with you. This can also be good if they pair it with some rewards.

Oblivion was worse as its leveling system for the player really screwed leveling in general, which meant that your character's progression was not in line with your leveling and so you were at a disadvantage compared to the enemies. You could level up really fast just by running around and jumping and doing things that should not level you that quickly.

 

[KaOTiK]

I agree, having everything level up with you blows. They did this in dead island, though it didn't seem as bad in that game compared to Oblivion which was just horrible how you could level up some crap skill and still be as powerful as you were the previous level yet the enemies were now more powerful, whoever thought that one up as Bethesda better have become the office bitch.

 

[Ross Ridge]

Auto-levelling can make the game easier, much easier, if you min/max the system right. Since levelling your character doesn't make you any more powerful relative to your enemies, you do whatever else you can. In Oblivion one of the most powerful character builds is level 2, never raises his major skills (or never sleeps), and raises every other useful skill instead. (A similar level 1 character would be more powerful, but apparently you can't really finish the game that way.) In Final Fantasy VIII, I remember doing something similar and avoided leveling my characters. I managed to keep them low enough that I got the easiest version of the final boss, making it one of the easiest boss fights in the game.

(I also remember trying to keep my level low in Final Fantasy Tactics. Like Tactics Ogre, its spiritual predecesor, it had auto-leveling enemies in random battles so this made me much more powerful relative to them. Unfortunately it was like Tactics Ogre in that the story battles had fixed level enemies, so it made some of these battles very difficult.)

Basically these auto-levelling systems make the optimal strategy rather degenerate and counter-intuitive. In the worst case, as can happen in Oblivion, playing the game normally can result in you getting progressively weaker relative to your enemies, ultimately forcing you to give up (or lowering the difficulty slider...). Any game which can have to saying "Oh, crap, I levelled", is probably doing something wrong.

 

[Dumac]

Seriously? I LOVE auto-levelling. It was the reason I actually liked Oblivion. Why do you want the game easier? Frickin boring if you ask me.

1. Level scaling doesn't make the game harder. It makes it counter-intuitively easier.

2. Level scaling took away any incentive to either level or explore. Now that is boring.

 

[Aikouka]

I think it depends on what the game provides. I played Chaos Rings on my iPad, and the game provided levels with enemies in level sets of 10 (1-10, 11-20, etc) all the way to 100. The end boss... was about a level 40. Although, that game was so terribly tweaked that nothing could hurt me anyway, and that includes an enemy that is my level. Not much of a surprise... it's a Square-Enix game!

 

[Locut0s]

Seriously? I LOVE auto-levelling. It was the reason I actually liked Oblivion. Why do you want the game easier? Frickin boring if you ask me.

Auto levelling is a sign of lazy game design there is no need for them to implement it to make a game fair but difficult. No I don't want an easy game but I want the difficulty to be FAIR.

Like others have said above many auto levelling systems make it easy to cheat your way through a game and make it ridiculously easy. BUT if you play the game the natural way it can become insanely difficult if not impossible unless you follow some very specific strategies, and again that takes the fun out of the game.

 

[Veliko]

Can't say it bothers me at all. The enemies in Baldurs Gate 2 auto-levelled with you and that game is fantastic.

 

[Locut0s]

Can't say it bothers me at all. The enemies in Baldurs Gate 2 auto-levelled with you and that game is fantastic.

I find many games that employ it become insanely difficult if you don't follow very specific tactics. If this true of BG2?

 

[JD50]

I couldn't agree with you more OP. It killed Oblivion for me. I will NOT buy a game if it auto-levels.

 

[trmiv]

It doesn't really bother me. I didn't really find it a problem in Oblivion, still had a ton of fun with it.

 

[JackSpadesSI]

Any game which can have to saying "Oh, crap, I levelled", is probably doing something wrong.

QFT!