I had this linked to me by someone I guess knows my stepdad. Please critique.

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,442
1,040
136
So the comment I made was masks are worn to not keep you from being infected, but to lower the risk of you infecting others.

this is what followed.

Bold emphasis is mine.


Masks Don’t Work: A Review of Science

https://www.rcreader.com/…/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-o…

Review of the Medical Literature:

▪︎ N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19216002/

▪︎ None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein. https://www.cambridge.org/…/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05

▪︎ “There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.” https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/…/…/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x

▪︎ “We identified six clinical studies … . In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism.” https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

▪︎ “Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant”; as per Fig. 2c therein: (See diagram in Comments) https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

▪︎ “Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. ... Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.” https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

▪︎ “A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza.” https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381

Conclusion:

If there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit.

Masks and respirators do not work.

They failed to include this part which is the beginning of the article, which mostly talks about common cold and influenza.

There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles.
Furthermore, the relevant known physics and biology, which I review, are such that masks and respirators should not work. It would be a paradox if masks and respirators worked, given what we know about viral respiratory diseases: The main transmission path is long-residence-time aerosol particles (< 2.5 μm), which are too fine to be blocked, and the minimum-infective dose is smaller than one aerosol particle.
The present paper about masks illustrates the degree to which governments, the mainstream media, and institutional propagandists can decide to operate in a science vacuum, or select only incomplete science that serves their interests. Such recklessness is also certainly the case with the current global lockdown of over 1 billion people, an unprecedented experiment in medical and political history.
(From Words from the Publisher: "We pledge to publish all letters, guest commentaries, or studies refuting [Rancourt's] general premise that this mask-wearing culture and shaming could be more harmful than helpful. Please send your feedback to info@rcreader.com.")
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,156
18,647
146
Good post, IMO.

So far, I made it thru the first two and landed on the third. The conclusions are that initial evidence says masks could be ineffective but more comprehensive testing is needed.

But, if masks are not effective, then that means social distancing, lockdowns, and strict sanitizing are what help get the virus to slow down in the initial hot zones.

So, to me, it seems that without more research, just claiming masks don't work and providing at least the first few links doesn't support the hypothesis.

Edit: just a simple Google search shows other links supporting use.

 
Last edited:

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,088
30,442
136
Aerosol engineers proved the effectiveness of cloth masks pretty easily a few months ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JEDIYoda

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,681
8,060
136
Sneeze without a mask or without covering a sneeze.

Sneeze into a mask or your sleeve.

Of course masks are effective. They don't 100% prevent communication, but they limit it, obviously, without any doubt whatsoever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dank69 and JEDIYoda

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Good post, but nothing conclusive....sort of like posting a paper on is there a God?
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
this sounds a lot like the autism vaccine issue.
Theres assloads of studies and evidence saying one thing, and one study without peer review saying another thing.

Hmmmm.......





 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,442
1,040
136
Well, I only made it through the first link from the originally linked article, which describes itself as an "independent" tabloid paper.

I had hesitated to click the rcreader link to begin with.
It needs to be noted my stepdad is a full fledged trumper and conspiracy theorist. YouTube brain rot.
Anyway, this guy chimed in with the whole masks don't work with link to above first post.

So I clicked it, and low and behold, the impression I got was the article mainly focused on common colds and Influenza.
The first link inside the article, IIRC, went on to refute that masks are NOT useless against Covid-19.

So I had responded with something along those lines and it's been crickets since.
I will preface that with I do not check FB often at all, and at the time I was kinda trolling my stepdad on several of the Propagandist MEMES he almost always posts as facts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ch33zw1z

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,156
18,647
146
Well, I only made it through the first link from the originally linked article, which describes itself as an "independent" tabloid paper.

I had hesitated to click the rcreader link to begin with.
It needs to be noted my stepdad is a full fledged trumper and conspiracy theorist. YouTube brain rot.
Anyway, this guy chimed in with the whole masks don't work with link to above first post.

So I clicked it, and low and behold, the impression I got was the article mainly focused on common colds and Influenza.
The first link inside the article, IIRC, went on to refute that masks are NOT useless against Covid-19.

So I had responded with something along those lines and it's been crickets since.
I will preface that with I do not check FB often at all, and at the time I was kinda trolling my stepdad on several of the Propagandist MEMES he almost always posts as facts.

That's fair. I was just curious what you thought. I think it's safe to say masks are effective until undeniably proven otherwise. It's a small price to pay to reduce covids impact to our country. I hate wearing it, and when I'm alone at work I'll take it off for a few if possible.
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,442
1,040
136
That's fair. I was just curious what you thought. I think it's safe to say masks are effective until undeniably proven otherwise. It's a small price to pay to reduce covids impact to our country. I hate wearing it, and when I'm alone at work I'll take it off for a few if possible.
Please keep in mind, this is a response to my response saying masks are to help keep you from getting others sick.
Also this was chained off a pose/meme saying that they want to turn this country into a Democratic Socialist country, but CANNOT do so while it is a Constitutional Republic. :rolleyes:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ch33zw1z

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,299
136
Also this was chained off a pose/meme saying that they want to turn this country into a Democratic Socialist country, but CANNOT do so while it is a Constitutional Republic. :rolleyes:

So how does wearing masks make a country Socialist? I mean that would be a lot easier than a revolution of the proletariat!
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
136
Some serious issues with the post. First of all, many of the studies in that post looked at the common cold and masks or influenza and masks. The prevalence (and infectiousness) of the common cold or of acute influenza is not nearly that of COVID-19. At this time, studies have estimated a prevalence of COVID in the US anywhere from 3% to 25% of the populace being infected. I think I remember reading a study looking at healthy asymptomatic pregnant women who randomly were coming to deliver children in NY (these are people who are healthy and self-isolating remember) and something like 15% were infected as assessed by routine random screening. Influenza and the common cold do not even come close to 1% of the population being infected at any given time even in peak season. It's very hard to show benefit of masks in situations where the overall infection rate is low. One of the studies looked at 2000 people and had only 3 confirmed cases of the common cold or something across the treatment group (masks) and the control group. Very hard to draw conclusions when the prevalence of what you're looking at is so low. Studies on masks and COVID-19 however are coming. There is at least 1 major paper that specifically links mask wearing to reduction in rates of infection in both china and the US.


There are also minor papers that documented mask use during the SARS epidemic as being effective

The second thing is that the way viruses are spread differs. Some are spread by fomites (transfer of infectious particles from surfaces to organic tissue), some by large droplets, some by small droplets, some are aerosolized (meaning they basically float in the air in suspension), some are sexual, etc etc. Viruses may have multiple routes of transmission. Masks may affect one or two routes but not necessarily all. We know that most masks are useful vs large droplets but do nothing vs small droplets and certainly aerosolized particles. The impact on the overall rate of transmission in COVID-19 is unknown but since we are trying to save society from collapsing, it doesn't seem like a big thing to request people at least take some steps. Even if masks drop the transmission rate by 5 or 10%, it'd still be huge in terms of its impact on society. I don't think people generally understand just how crazy infectious this virus is.
 
Last edited:

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,442
1,040
136
Sorry if I double embedded anything, was easier off mobile.
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,442
1,040
136
You can't reason a person out of a position that they never reasoned themselves into.
My stepdad never used to be any political affiliation growing up. They moved to Florida, I stayed in Michigan, this was right around the inception of Fox News "Fair and Balanced" shit I remember Hannity and Combs show.
I remember thinking to myself, this is nothing like 60 Minutes, or whatever shows constituted REAL news shows back then.

This is a perfect example of that Netflix show about how Fox News changed my dad or whatever it was called. Except mines not old and frail, he's bipolar, alcoholic, and has COPD so bad he smokes them cigar cigarettes now instead of Kools. :rolleyes:
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
My stepdad never used to be any political affiliation growing up. They moved to Florida, I stayed in Michigan, this was right around the inception of Fox News "Fair and Balanced" shit I remember Hannity and Combs show.
I remember thinking to myself, this is nothing like 60 Minutes, or whatever shows constituted REAL news shows back then.

This is a perfect example of that Netflix show about how Fox News changed my dad or whatever it was called. Except mines not old and frail, he's bipolar, alcoholic, and has COPD so bad he smokes them cigar cigarettes now instead of Kools. :rolleyes:
My mom was very level-headed until she started watching Fox News. And if you could find the name of that Netflix show I would love to watch it.
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,442
1,040
136
My mom was very level-headed until she started watching Fox News. And if you could find the name of that Netflix show I would love to watch it.
The brainwashing of my father, or something close to that.