I guess the US already has plans to annex Cuba

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14215314/page/3/

MR. RUSSERT: Before you go, Madame Secretary, how sick is Fidel Castro?

DR. RICE: I don?t know, Tim. It?s a very closed society, obviously. Keeps its secrets well. But what the United States has been sending is a message to the Cuban people that change is clearly under way, that the United States stands clearly and with people who want a more democratic future in Cuba. We will stand for their right for free elections, to say what they think, to worship as they please. And we will help organize the international community to support them in any way needed.

We have put aside important humanitarian efforts that could be made on their behalf, and my message to the Cuban people would be that they have an opportunity, as this unfolds at home, to build a stable and more democratic Cuba.

MR. RUSSERT: USA Today reports that the Bush administration has dedicated assistance ?to prepare the Cuban military forces to adjust to an appropriate role in a democracy.? What does that mean?

DR. RICE: This simply means, Tim, that we?ve done some far-ranging thinking about, when the transition really does come in Cuba, how Cuba might have institutions of democracy. That?s all that means.

But I want to lay one thing to rest: the notion that, somehow, the United States is going to invade Cuba because there are troubles in Cuba, is simply far-fetched, and it?s simply not true. The United States wants to be a partner and a friend for the Cuban people as they move through this period of difficulty and as they move ahead. But what Cuba should not have is the replacement of one dictator by another. The United States will support a democratic and peaceful process. But this is simply the?trying to think through how we might help the Cuban people have more democratic institutions when that time comes.

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MR. RUSSERT: And we will not a mass exodus out of the United States or out of Cuba?

DR. RICE: The United States really feels very strongly, and we?ve worked to tell the Cuban people that their future is at home. And no, a mass exodus is not, not to be expected, nor would it be condoned.

MR. RUSSERT: Of Cuban Americans back to Cuba, as well?

DR. RICE: Our view, Tim, is that this is a time in which a lot is unfolding in Cuba, we?re watching it very carefully. Our role right now is to make clear the kind of future that we see for Cuba, and to be prepared to help the Cuban people toward that future. It is also our role to give a sense of, of calm and stability as things go forward. And the president has been very focused on this, I?ve been very focused on it. The Cuban people deserve our respect and they deserve our support. And they will get it.

MR. RUSSERT: But you will not allow Cuban Americans to return back to Cuba en masse?

DR. RICE: Tim, we are not going to do anything to stoke a sense of crisis or a sense of instability in Cuba. This is a transitional period for the Cuban people. We are going to stand with them for the proposition that there should not simply be the return from?or the end of one dictatorship and the imposition of another dictatorship. And we are working with partners in the international community to send that message very strongly.

But our role will be to help the Cuban people, when the time comes, to have a peaceful and, and stable democratic transition.

MR. RUSSERT: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, we thank you very much for your views.

DR. RICE: Thank you, Tim.

So, I guess we can see that the US already has plans for the a puppet dictator to take the place of Castro. I find it pathetic that in a interview where they want to "help democracy" there is not mention of finding out what the cuban people want. I guess they learned there lesson that democracy is not always a god send as we saw in Iraq and Palestine.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
We will stand for their right for free elections, to say what they think, to worship as they please. And we will help organize the international community to support them in any way needed.

I wonder when we will support such things in China, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Jordan?
 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,216
1
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
We will stand for their right for free elections, to say what they think, to worship as they please. And we will help organize the international community to support them in any way needed.

I wonder when we will support such things in China, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Jordan?

Heh...Whenever it becomes politically or economically convenient would be my guess. :p
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
DR. RICE: I don?t know, Tim. It?s a very closed society, obviously. Keeps its secrets well.

I've read everything after that answer to the question... I'm not sure but really feel all the rest of what she said points to either a known potential for democratization in Cuba or that something else is afoot..
I may be missing something in the State Dept's normal gibberish.. but it do seem something is up... that slap on Fidel's face is a bit harsh... and indicative of a change that is in the works.. imo
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,927
6,572
126
Originally posted by: LunarRay
DR. RICE: I don?t know, Tim. It?s a very closed society, obviously. Keeps its secrets well.

I've read everything after that answer to the question... I'm not sure but really feel all the rest of what she said points to either a known potential for democratization in Cuba or that something else is afoot..
I may be missing something in the State Dept's normal gibberish.. but it do seem something is up... that slap on Fidel's face is a bit harsh... and indicative of a change that is in the works.. imo

Probably they are sure the voting machines are rigged and they no longer need the lunatic Cubans.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LunarRay
DR. RICE: I don?t know, Tim. It?s a very closed society, obviously. Keeps its secrets well.

I've read everything after that answer to the question... I'm not sure but really feel all the rest of what she said points to either a known potential for democratization in Cuba or that something else is afoot..
I may be missing something in the State Dept's normal gibberish.. but it do seem something is up... that slap on Fidel's face is a bit harsh... and indicative of a change that is in the works.. imo

Probably they are sure the voting machines are rigged and they no longer need the lunatic Cubans.

That was nice of Florida to send their machines to Cuba.. but gee.. they are gonna reject all the minority ballots and Cuban folks are considered minority to the machines.. so a no vote total will occur and then they will have to recount and it will be stopped by the Supremes singing too loud..
Guess Cuba will become the 54th state.. why not.. we already have Gitmo the country club federal detention center..
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: RichardE
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14215314/page/3/

MR. RUSSERT: Before you go, Madame Secretary, how sick is Fidel Castro?

DR. RICE: I don?t know, Tim. It?s a very closed society, obviously. Keeps its secrets well. But what the United States has been sending is a message to the Cuban people that change is clearly under way, that the United States stands clearly and with people who want a more democratic future in Cuba. We will stand for their right for free elections, to say what they think, to worship as they please. And we will help organize the international community to support them in any way needed.

We have put aside important humanitarian efforts that could be made on their behalf, and my message to the Cuban people would be that they have an opportunity, as this unfolds at home, to build a stable and more democratic Cuba.

MR. RUSSERT: USA Today reports that the Bush administration has dedicated assistance ?to prepare the Cuban military forces to adjust to an appropriate role in a democracy.? What does that mean?

DR. RICE: This simply means, Tim, that we?ve done some far-ranging thinking about, when the transition really does come in Cuba, how Cuba might have institutions of democracy. That?s all that means.

But I want to lay one thing to rest: the notion that, somehow, the United States is going to invade Cuba because there are troubles in Cuba, is simply far-fetched, and it?s simply not true. The United States wants to be a partner and a friend for the Cuban people as they move through this period of difficulty and as they move ahead. But what Cuba should not have is the replacement of one dictator by another. The United States will support a democratic and peaceful process. But this is simply the?trying to think through how we might help the Cuban people have more democratic institutions when that time comes.

Story continues below ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
advertisement
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MR. RUSSERT: And we will not a mass exodus out of the United States or out of Cuba?

DR. RICE: The United States really feels very strongly, and we?ve worked to tell the Cuban people that their future is at home. And no, a mass exodus is not, not to be expected, nor would it be condoned.

MR. RUSSERT: Of Cuban Americans back to Cuba, as well?

DR. RICE: Our view, Tim, is that this is a time in which a lot is unfolding in Cuba, we?re watching it very carefully. Our role right now is to make clear the kind of future that we see for Cuba, and to be prepared to help the Cuban people toward that future. It is also our role to give a sense of, of calm and stability as things go forward. And the president has been very focused on this, I?ve been very focused on it. The Cuban people deserve our respect and they deserve our support. And they will get it.

MR. RUSSERT: But you will not allow Cuban Americans to return back to Cuba en masse?

DR. RICE: Tim, we are not going to do anything to stoke a sense of crisis or a sense of instability in Cuba. This is a transitional period for the Cuban people. We are going to stand with them for the proposition that there should not simply be the return from?or the end of one dictatorship and the imposition of another dictatorship. And we are working with partners in the international community to send that message very strongly.

But our role will be to help the Cuban people, when the time comes, to have a peaceful and, and stable democratic transition.

MR. RUSSERT: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, we thank you very much for your views.

DR. RICE: Thank you, Tim.

So, I guess we can see that the US already has plans for the a puppet dictator to take the place of Castro. I find it pathetic that in a interview where they want to "help democracy" there is not mention of finding out what the cuban people want. I guess they learned there lesson that democracy is not always a god send as we saw in Iraq and Palestine.
have you spoken with any Cuban people? they resoundingly want Castro out and would embrace a democracy.

you people who like to spread doom and gloom need to get outside and off the internet.

 

wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,191
41
91
Originally posted by: moshquerade
have you spoken with any Cuban people? they resoundingly want Castro out and would embrace a democracy.

you people who like to spread doom and gloom need to get outside and off the internet.

[/quote]

Are you talking about CUBAN people or the Miami Cubans?

What I read in the press seems to indicate most of the Cuban population (like citizen/lemmings everywhere) support their leader Castro. Most, but not all, of the malcontent is due to economic reasons, not political.

Now the Miami cubans are a different story. They hate Castro because they were raised to hate Castro by parents who were booted out of their positions of prominence in Cuba by the Revolution. I'd be angry too, but it doesn't make them the majority, just a very vocal minority.
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
2,502
0
76
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: RichardE
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14215314/page/3/

MR. RUSSERT: Before you go, Madame Secretary, how sick is Fidel Castro?

DR. RICE: I don?t know, Tim. It?s a very closed society, obviously. Keeps its secrets well. But what the United States has been sending is a message to the Cuban people that change is clearly under way, that the United States stands clearly and with people who want a more democratic future in Cuba. We will stand for their right for free elections, to say what they think, to worship as they please. And we will help organize the international community to support them in any way needed.

We have put aside important humanitarian efforts that could be made on their behalf, and my message to the Cuban people would be that they have an opportunity, as this unfolds at home, to build a stable and more democratic Cuba.

MR. RUSSERT: USA Today reports that the Bush administration has dedicated assistance ?to prepare the Cuban military forces to adjust to an appropriate role in a democracy.? What does that mean?

DR. RICE: This simply means, Tim, that we?ve done some far-ranging thinking about, when the transition really does come in Cuba, how Cuba might have institutions of democracy. That?s all that means.

But I want to lay one thing to rest: the notion that, somehow, the United States is going to invade Cuba because there are troubles in Cuba, is simply far-fetched, and it?s simply not true. The United States wants to be a partner and a friend for the Cuban people as they move through this period of difficulty and as they move ahead. But what Cuba should not have is the replacement of one dictator by another. The United States will support a democratic and peaceful process. But this is simply the?trying to think through how we might help the Cuban people have more democratic institutions when that time comes.

Story continues below ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
advertisement
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MR. RUSSERT: And we will not a mass exodus out of the United States or out of Cuba?

DR. RICE: The United States really feels very strongly, and we?ve worked to tell the Cuban people that their future is at home. And no, a mass exodus is not, not to be expected, nor would it be condoned.

MR. RUSSERT: Of Cuban Americans back to Cuba, as well?

DR. RICE: Our view, Tim, is that this is a time in which a lot is unfolding in Cuba, we?re watching it very carefully. Our role right now is to make clear the kind of future that we see for Cuba, and to be prepared to help the Cuban people toward that future. It is also our role to give a sense of, of calm and stability as things go forward. And the president has been very focused on this, I?ve been very focused on it. The Cuban people deserve our respect and they deserve our support. And they will get it.

MR. RUSSERT: But you will not allow Cuban Americans to return back to Cuba en masse?

DR. RICE: Tim, we are not going to do anything to stoke a sense of crisis or a sense of instability in Cuba. This is a transitional period for the Cuban people. We are going to stand with them for the proposition that there should not simply be the return from?or the end of one dictatorship and the imposition of another dictatorship. And we are working with partners in the international community to send that message very strongly.

But our role will be to help the Cuban people, when the time comes, to have a peaceful and, and stable democratic transition.

MR. RUSSERT: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, we thank you very much for your views.

DR. RICE: Thank you, Tim.

So, I guess we can see that the US already has plans for the a puppet dictator to take the place of Castro. I find it pathetic that in a interview where they want to "help democracy" there is not mention of finding out what the cuban people want. I guess they learned there lesson that democracy is not always a god send as we saw in Iraq and Palestine.
have you spoken with any Cuban people? they resoundingly want Castro out and would embrace a democracy.

you people who like to spread doom and gloom need to get outside and off the internet.

The Cuban people want democracy THEIR WAY - not something imposed upon them by the US. Iraq is a perfect example of the export version of US democracy.

Kindasleezy Rice should be 'hands off' Cuba.


 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Mosh-
Have YOU spoken to any Cuban people? They resoundingly want better conditions but you would have to be ignorant to believe they don't embrace Castro.

What most Americans (and virtually all politicians) don't understand is that Cubans don't want to be American, Americanized, or south Florida Cuban-Americanized. They want a better Cuba.

The problem with the US approach is that we have given Castro the one thing that was absolutely necessary to sustain his regime since the USSR collapsed . . . an excuse for stagnation. The ascension of Chavez and discovery of oil/natural gas off the Cuban coast has buoyed Castro's regime as of late. The deplorable foreign policy of the Bush Regime (especially Gitmo) is unlikely to convince Cubans that we have their best interests at heart.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
30,811
28,364
146
About damned time! Gonna be easy to boat over and surf and get my Montecristo No. 4s :evil:
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: moshquerade
have you spoken with any Cuban people? they resoundingly want Castro out and would embrace a democracy.

you people who like to spread doom and gloom need to get outside and off the internet.

Are you talking about CUBAN people or the Miami Cubans?

What I read in the press seems to indicate most of the Cuban population (like citizen/lemmings everywhere) support their leader Castro. Most, but not all, of the malcontent is due to economic reasons, not political.

Now the Miami cubans are a different story. They hate Castro because they were raised to hate Castro by parents who were booted out of their positions of prominence in Cuba by the Revolution. I'd be angry too, but it doesn't make them the majority, just a very vocal minority.
[/quote]

Well, the bolded is sort of true. Almost everyone is bemused (and to some extent angry) about the lack of economic upward mobility in the society. As I noted previously, things have gotten a little better b/c of Chavez and what looks like some Cuban oil/gas reserves. All the more reason we should repeal Helms-Burton immediately. Chavez would not be able to compete with the economic impact of semi-free trade with the US. I would repeal our sugar subsidies/quota system as well, but that's a different issue.

South Florida Cubans would have one believe that they are the heart and soul of the 'resistance' movement . . . when in fact many of them left for financial reasons . . . not political ones. The real Cuban opposition is still in Cuba. Some in jail, some in house arrest, but most merely marginalized. Doctors, lawyers, judges (off the bench probably), teachers, clergy, and everything else. I'm inclined to believe millions of Cubans want a different political system . . . something closer to what the Revolution promised . . . but Castro never delivered.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
So how do you go about her answering questions on our policy should Castro die, to us annexing Cuba?

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
A big part of the problem is that the supposedly pro-democracy US loves to interfere in the elections in other countries, thwarting democracy - and leaving the leaders of those nations with reason to fear 'democracy' which can be corrupted from the outside, with the CIA and US dollars supporting 'opposition group', i.e., groups who trade supporting American interests over their own nation's in exchange for getting power - so that the leaders are tempted to not have democracy.

Consider Chavez in Venezuela - in many ways he's been a champion of the public's political power, including writing in the ability for the public to recall the president which was used against him in a US-supported move by the people in Venezuela who want an oligarchy restored and a reduction in democracy - and yet even Chavez has come out with interest, reportedly, in a 25 year term - something pretty anti-democratic.

Look at Nicaragua - the US sponsored flat out terrorism against the Sandanista government, justifying it by saying that the Sandanistas were commies who would never follow an election and give up power, and the US told the voters the only way to end the terrorism was to vote out the Sandanistas. The voters gave in to the terrorism, and the Sandanistas peacefully left office after the election. How did the US look as a 'champion of peace and democracy' there?

If democracy could be protected in other nations from outside influence, it'd go a long way to supporting democracy globally.

The US has laws against outside influence in its own elections, but a policy of doing the opposite in other nations, even 'allies' such as Italy historically.

The US simply uses language aimed at the American people to sell its policies; every act it does is put under 'freeom' and 'democracy' whatever the facts.

Remember Reagan saying the contras were 'the moral equivalent of our founding fathers'?

Remember LBJ saying the dictatorial President Diem in Viet Nam was "the Winston Churchill of southeast Asia"? There are many more.

Of course Rice is calling the planned power grab by the US in Cuba names with 'liberty' and 'freedom'; it's marketing.

Just like we 'freed' the people of Chile from the elected president Salvadore Allenda, and put in power the dictator Pinochet.