I finally decided-ordered a Samsung 244T

[jnjboc]

After much agonizing between the Dell 2405, Samsung 244t, and the Eizo 2410, I finally bit on the 244t from TigerDirect.com

I will give a full report on how well it handles FPS games(I would hope at Samsung's rated 6ms G2G response time, that's a non-issue)

I will also use the monitor for business(network design schematics, spreadsheets, email), plus Photoshop CS2 for my digital photography hobby.

TigerDirect.com as a very good return policy(I simply pay for shipping it back-NO restocking fees), if I don't like it, so we shall see....

Oh man, I can't wait for the 24" widescreen goodness to start, after hearing so many people here at Anandtech testify that once you go widescreen, you never go back!

 

[sisq0kidd]

Awesome. I love my 2405 and I'm sure you'll love your 244t. Please take pictures when you get it

 

[xtknight]

I'm Interested to hear about it.

 

[KeithP]

It will be great to hear your impressions of this monitor especially since your sig indicates you currently have a 2070. Looking forward to your thoughts on the 244T.

-KeithP

 

[darXoul]

Make sure to post a review.

I'm probably also getting one, although since I'll most likely wait for G71, I still have some time to make a decision concerning my next monitor.

I know that if I get a widescreen, it's gonna be the 244t for sure since I'm afraid of reported heavy ghosting (prad.de, hardware.fr, cnet.com) and input lag (and noise issues) on the Dell. Eizo is nothing special and totally overpriced here, the new ViewSonic isn't available yet, plus it's gonna be expensive too, and the Acer is fast but lacks height adjustment and DVI.

On the other hand, I'm still thinking about the ViewSonic VP2030b which is half the price of 244t. The new Samsung 204b looks tempting as well because of the responsiveness I need for FPS gaming. If I could only stand the crappy vertical angle of TN

 

[JAG87]

please, post your thoughts, im dying to hear them.

 

[davet11]

Originally posted by: darXoul
I know that if I get a widescreen, it's gonna be the 244t for sure since I'm afraid of reported heavy ghosting (prad.de, hardware.fr, cnet.com) and input lag (and noise issues) on the Dell.

I can't find this in the reviews, do you have links?

 

[nitromullet]

That screen is sweeeeet. Definitely be my choice for a 24" LCD if I was in the market.

 

[nib95]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
That screen is sweeeeet. Definitely be my choice for a 24" LCD if I was in the market.

Is'nt it a regular aspect screen though? 1900 x 1200?

Widescreen is a necessity for me.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nib95

Originally posted by: nitromullet
That screen is sweeeeet. Definitely be my choice for a 24" LCD if I was in the market.

Is'nt it a regular aspect screen though? 1900 x 1200?

Widescreen is a necessity for me.

The Samsung 244t is a 1920x1200 16:10 aspect desktop-grade "widescreen" just like the Dell 2405FPW.

 

[darXoul]

Originally posted by: davet11

Originally posted by: darXoul
I know that if I get a widescreen, it's gonna be the 244t for sure since I'm afraid of reported heavy ghosting (prad.de, hardware.fr, cnet.com) and input lag (and noise issues) on the Dell.

I can't find this in the reviews, do you have links?

Absolutely.

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review-dell-2405fpw.html

Quote: "In spite of Overdrive, the Dell 2405FPW showed a low but still perceivable amount of ghosting in fast paced games i.e. the first person shooter Half-Life?. Motion blurring, too, which due to the underlying technological principle all LCD displays show, became apparent. While we surely don?t want to mark out the 2405FPW as being unsuitable for gaming, we would reckon the rather picky natures among gamers to be disappointed by it.

The 2405FPW is not recommendable for hardcore gamers. If you consiTheyourself part of this target group and if your are in the market for a widescreen display you?re probably going to have to wait a little longer since, in terms of responsiveness, there is currently no widescreen display available that could compete with the fastest of displays, such as the ViewSonic VX924 for example. As for occasional gamers, given the respective individual demands, the Dell 2405FPW?s performance is most likely going to turn out as sufficient."

http://www.behardware.com/articles/567-1/23-and-24-lcd-monitors-roundup.html

Quote: "It is time for the Samsung engineers to wake up. Or is it the Korean marketing department? This 16 ms monitor, 8 ms according to Samsung, and the 16 ms PVA Dell 1704V doesn?t provide better results than the 25 ms tested here during the last few years.

Of course, playing World of Warcraft with this monitor is extraordinary. If you have a very good graphic card, playing in 1920 x 1200 is a real pleasure. It is hard to come back to smaller monitors. But for Unreal or other FPS it is another story. If the character is static, we can only admire the contrast, color quality, precision of the shapes (at least with the standard resolution). If you move your mouse, it ruins everything. There is an afterglow and this is quite unbearable for really fast game fans.

You will, however, get used to this afterglow in time. It is disturbing but it all depends on the level of quality you require. In this respect, our requirements are probably too high and surely above average. Especially when a manufacturer announces an 8 ms response time that is supposedly perfect for all games. But we regularly receive readers? comment saying that they aren?t disturbed by this effect, which seems horrible to us, and that they don?t even see what we are talking about. Anyway, now you know what we think of this monitor as regards fast games. "


This is about ghosting. Noise and input lag are reported in different forums, e.g. Hardforums.

 

[davet11]

Originally posted by: darXoul

Originally posted by: davet11

Originally posted by: darXoul
I know that if I get a widescreen, it's gonna be the 244t for sure since I'm afraid of reported heavy ghosting (prad.de, hardware.fr, cnet.com) and input lag (and noise issues) on the Dell.

I can't find this in the reviews, do you have links?

Absolutely.

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review-dell-2405fpw.html

Quote: "In spite of Overdrive, the Dell 2405FPW showed a low but still perceivable amount of ghosting in fast paced games i.e. the first person shooter Half-Life?. Motion blurring, too, which due to the underlying technological principle all LCD displays show, became apparent. While we surely don?t want to mark out the 2405FPW as being unsuitable for gaming, we would reckon the rather picky natures among gamers to be disappointed by it.

The 2405FPW is not recommendable for hardcore gamers. If you consiTheyourself part of this target group and if your are in the market for a widescreen display you?re probably going to have to wait a little longer since, in terms of responsiveness, there is currently no widescreen display available that could compete with the fastest of displays, such as the ViewSonic VX924 for example. As for occasional gamers, given the respective individual demands, the Dell 2405FPW?s performance is most likely going to turn out as sufficient."

http://www.behardware.com/articles/567-1/23-and-24-lcd-monitors-roundup.html

Quote: "It is time for the Samsung engineers to wake up. Or is it the Korean marketing department? This 16 ms monitor, 8 ms according to Samsung, and the 16 ms PVA Dell 1704V doesn?t provide better results than the 25 ms tested here during the last few years.

Of course, playing World of Warcraft with this monitor is extraordinary. If you have a very good graphic card, playing in 1920 x 1200 is a real pleasure. It is hard to come back to smaller monitors. But for Unreal or other FPS it is another story. If the character is static, we can only admire the contrast, color quality, precision of the shapes (at least with the standard resolution). If you move your mouse, it ruins everything. There is an afterglow and this is quite unbearable for really fast game fans.

You will, however, get used to this afterglow in time. It is disturbing but it all depends on the level of quality you require. In this respect, our requirements are probably too high and surely above average. Especially when a manufacturer announces an 8 ms response time that is supposedly perfect for all games. But we regularly receive readers? comment saying that they aren?t disturbed by this effect, which seems horrible to us, and that they don?t even see what we are talking about. Anyway, now you know what we think of this monitor as regards fast games. "


This is about ghosting. Noise and input lag are reported in different forums, e.g. Hardforums.

Thanks a lot for the links. It seems as though the common consensus is that the 244t is a lot better in the "lag" department than the 2405fpw. I'm just wondering how the screen compares overall (I'm sure very well). Will probably have to save up some more and get the 244t over the 2405 simply because the lag issue seems like something that would drive me insane ...

edit: seems like this lag is a problem all over the place for LCDs in general ... had no clue about it. Especially a problem since I'm considering using it as a screen for console games as well (where it seems to present itself even more) ... guess maybe the FW900????

 

[Tasc]

I just returned a 244t because of the input lag (this isn't the same issue as ghosting). Anyways, if you want to read more info on it (and see some video) here are some links:

http://weblogs.asp.net/ryanw/archive/2004/09/23/233681.aspx
http://s88012115.onlinehome.us/TFTDelayBeweis.avi
http://media.putfile.com/Movie_0001914

 

[xtknight]

All those 'lag' videos and nobody seems to know how to do a proper scientific experiment. Did they switch the CRT and LCD to see if it was the video card lagging one output? No. Did they verify both ports were outputting at the same refresh rate? No. Did they try both VGA and DVI? No.

 

[davet11]

Originally posted by: xtknight
All those 'lag' videos and nobody seems to know how to do a proper scientific experiment. Did they switch the CRT and LCD to see if it was the video card lagging one output? No. Did they verify both ports were outputting at the same refresh rate? No. Did they try both VGA and DVI? No.

Yes they have, there are links all over the place with people doing exactly what you suggested. This is slowly becoming a well known issue with large LCDs. Even on www.hardforum.com the posting of this issue was initially met by reactions of "you're doing something wrong, there's no way that's possible" to "well, 10ms - 40ms of lag really doesn't matter".

I am personally glad that this issue is coming to light, saved me a lot of hassle.

It also seems incredibly strange that this issue isn't included in reviews of LCD monitors, I'd think that it would be covered. It definitely needs to be something that is added to the specs of today's LCDs in my opinion. I would really hope that somebody here on anandtech (which is reasonably respected on the web) would be able to address this issue.

 

[Tasc]

I couldn't agree more davet11. I'm hoping a major hardware review site like anandtech will address this issue and bring it to the masses in one of their reviews. This may force the affected LCD manufacturers to actually take note, instead of trying to shave another 2 ms off their claimed response times while adding ~50ms of undisclosed delay.

Just for the record, I ran the tests on a 244t and a sony 21" crt on a dualhead 7800gt. Both monitors were set to 1600x1200 @ 60hz. Then the primary and secondary positions were swapped, so each monitor had a chance to be primary. Same results under all these circumstances, the LCD produced a delay. I did not try running the lcd off vga, but others have.

Granted, this small delay is mostly a non-issue for the majority. You get used to it quickly and the brain eventually makes it the norm. But some people will be bothered by it. I'm a very casual fps gamer, and it drives me insane even on the desktop.

 

[xtknight]

It's probably because the video card is sending half-frames and the LCD is ignoring them since that's not how it works internally. It's probably a type of software problem (quite low-level in Windows). Has this happened on some LCDs and not others? I do wish they would get to the bottom of this. Try it on Windows. Try it on Linux. Try it on everything and find out the problem. I'd really like to know.

It could also be from response time. I noticed when watching a video my CRT didn't tear but my LCD did during motion. But, at the same time, I notice no tearing like that when watching HDTV from a tuner on my LCD, but I guess it's hard to tell.

 

[Tasc]

Yeah, there definitely needs to be more research done here. I think end users are pretty limited in what platforms/configurations we have available to test on, etc. If a review site (like anandtech) wanted to run some tests, they have the reources to pull this off to do it right. I would think watching the above videos would at least spark some reviewer into replicating the tests and figuring out the issue - especially now that there is so much focus on gaming with LCDs lately.

 

[xtknight]

The REASON I'm so skeptical is because when I did hook up my LCD in a dual-monitor config, it was always forced down to 60 Hz and my mouse seemed sluggish. Out of the dual-monitor setup, that did not happen.

 

[sting808]

tasc,

You mentioned the 244T lagged. Is it really like your pulling the window on a bungie slow? (I know that's really subjective...)

I am about to pull the trigger on the 244T and started to lean toward Eizo S2410W, hoping that Eizo's electronics implementation may be a little better than Samsung.

I have had numerous Sony GDM 19" - 21" CRTs throughout my life and love it. My current CRT is dying.

I use a Dell 2405 at work for graphics, layouts and spreadsheets. Haven't played any games at work so can't comment. Video is poor compared to DLP and SXRD technologies. (I have my home theater setup and upscaling players) The 2405 is ok for the price, but nothing outstanding.

Does snyone have real world experience with S2410W? Or other 244T comments?

Thanks in advance.
Sting808

 

[Tasc]

sting808,

check the 1st link in my post above (there is a video in that blog post). That pretty much show's the lag effect/speed exactly.

 

[sting808]

Tasc,

I looked at the blog link again and couldn't find a recent post with newer LCDs.

The AVI was the Dell and I use it at work. It doesn't impress me with performance, just met my budget for the staff for daily work.

Was the putfile clip your Sam 244T? If so, it would slowly irritate the $h1t out of me. I still may need to use dual montors. I hope the VX924/922 is better than what I've seen so far.

I was hoping the Eizo implementation of their 3 frame sample overdrive would be better than Samsung. I was hoping someone here, Hard, or widescreengaming would have first hand experience with Eizo 24" and gaming. I've heard from some graphics people who like the compromise performance of the S2410W versus the ColorEdge series.

You said you noticed the 244 lag, but was it quicker than the Dell? I can find resellers who will take back the Samsung, But Chromix will charge me a 15-20% restocking fee for the Eizo. Other places will only do warrantly work on the Eizo.

If I buy, I buy and keep it.

I''m hoping someone would take the plunge before me.

 

[sting808]

I bit and wanted to see if I could live with the lag. The Samsung is brighter and difference in color is clearly noticeable out of the box when compared to the 2405s at work. I'll calibrate it if I decide to keep it.

YES, the lag is similar to a slight mouse acceleration. My CRT is dying so I need to commit to something. I did a side by side at 16x12 and 19x12 on a Gateway Diamondtron, and Sony CRT. I bought it from CompUSA Business so I can return it if I didn't like it.

Lag is noticeable in games and very obvious if one did a side by side.

I don't know if there will any 24" using overdrive technology without some video lag. Ghosting or lag... hmmmmm

I use my main PC for other things so this may be a keeper.

 

[rdaneelolivaw]

Something I posted on another thread but that can be of used for you:





Right...

I managed to finally get hold of a Samsung SM244T here in the UK after 3 weeks.
Samsung doesnt' seem to manage to produce enough of them at the moment..Mine has a manufacturing date of February 2006.

Anyway I ordered it because it seemed it was more future proof than the Dell 2405FPW thanks to HDCP and after reading various reviews I came accross the "lcd lag" or "input lag" issue.

I received the montior last Saturday and plugged it straightaway to a machine with a low end graphics card. I think it was a 9600 Pro but I am not sure now.
It didn't feel sluggish, mouse was as responsive when computer was plugged to a 17 inch LCD.
I didn't play any games on that monitor so I can't say for definite whether the lcd lag issue was definitely not there on this particular computer.

I later plugged this monitor to a 9700 Pro and straigthaway the mouse felt weird under Windows. It was as if the mouse was always lagging behind movements I made. The impression it felt was that the mouse was running at say 40hz and on top of that there was a noticeable delay. Weird..
I fired up Quake 3 and I again noticed the issue, no way I could use the good old Railgun. Movements were always imprecise, it was as if my graphics card couldn't cope with it when I know for certain it can easily do 1600*1200 so 1920 shouldn't be too difficult.

So....I had a look at these DVI settings on the ATI drivers control panel in the Options tab and I ticked the following boxes :
Reduce DVI frequency on high-resolution displayes
Alternate DVI operational mode

I didn't play with the full set of combinations with these buttons but at the moment it clearly feels much better than the first time I plugged this monitor to the R9700 Pro.
I launched Quake 3 and then it was a completely different game, graphics were smooth and mouse was fairly responsive.

Now I can't tell if it is as responsive as on my previous 22 inch CRT (Mitsubish 2040u) because of the following two reasons :
-I changed my wired mouse to a wireless mouse a while ago and the wireless mouse never felt as good as the old one for gaming
-I never played in 1920*1200 on the CRT but only at 1600*1200 so this might have an impact.


PS : I tried changing the frequency from 60hz (normal DVI mode) to 75 or more but I felt that it never helped to fix the issue.

To conclude this post, I was initially thinking of sending this monitor back because it felt it was completely impractical but now thanks to the new settings I'm definitely going to keep it.


Hope this helps
Daniel

 

[darXoul]

Thanks for the very interesting report. Now, it would be very good to get someone who was complaining about input lag to test the monitor using the options you mentioned.