Discussion I finally decided (and purchased) a new NVMe drive (updated with benchmark and temps)

[UsandThem]

So for many months I've pondered getting a new NVMe drive, and making my 960 EVO my program/video storage disk, and moving my SATA SSDs into other machines. A week ago, I finally decided on either the 1TB MyDigitalSSD BPX PRO or Corsair MP510 ($190 and $200 respectively). They were all in stock, so I was going to decide which one to go with and pull the trigger. The very next day when I went to buy the BPX PRO, it was out of stock (actually removed) on Amazon. No biggie, as MyDigitalSSD's storefront had them in stock at the time as well. However, when I went there, it was sold out as well. I figured it must have been a sign I should just get the Corsair, so I went to Newegg to buy it. Once again, sold out (and price raised to $220).

So I watched for a week to see if stock would come in, and it didn't. I really didn't want to pay the Samsung "tax" again since so many drives are neck-and-neck in performance, and some drives (like my two original choices offer way higher TBW warranties). So then I had to consider these drives:

1. HP EX950 1TB $220 - (lack of support and the issues with the 2TB version in Anandtech's review concerned me).
2. Adata SX8200 PRO 1TB $200 - I've never used their drives before, so a little hesitant. One review stated (and showed) the drive's controller heated up to its throttling point very quickly.
3. HP EX920 1TB $160 - Best price/performance drive, but again, lack of HP support concerned me.
4. WD Black (2018) 1TB $230 - Good reviews, however dated compared to newest drives. No firmware updates to increase performance.
5. WD Black SN750 1TB $250 - Good performance, good reputation, however exact same drive as the 2018 version (sans firmware update). Kind of stingy in my book.

So after all of the research, reading various benchmarks, today I ordered the:

Spoiler

Samsung 970 EVO Plus. Oops, I guess I didn't avoid the tax after all. Speed comparison

 

[killster1]

hp ex 920 for 130 on ebay new. half the price and almost same spec as evo plus (ya synthetic is better on some), but if you have to buy from a real store because of paranoia issues then yea ida got the plus if just a little $$ more. when i looked it was double the hp920 (which what kinda support do you need has firmware updates)

i cant remember contacting any of the companies ive ever bought something from for support. thinking really hard... nope nothing just RMA a few spinner hd's and 2 gfx cards.

 

[WilliamM2]

I've been looking to get a 500GB NVME myself, but the prices keep falling so I keep waiting for the prices to drop further. Glad I didn't buy a slower drive before Christmas, when the 500GB models were all twice as much. Right now I'm thinking the BPX will do, but in no hurry.

Sometimes it's good to wait.

 

[UsandThem]

when i looked it was double the hp920 (which what kinda support do you need has firmware updates)

I looked at Hp's support page for the EX920 when deciding, and I didn't see anything available for the drive (including no update for the reported temperature bug). Maybe it's buried somewhere on their site, but I didn't see it. https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-ex920-m.2-512gb-solid-state-drive/23815839

Sometimes it's good to wait.

Sometimes it is, but in my case both of the drives I decided on went out of stock. I'm not sure if the NAND manufacturers are scaling back production because of falling prices or what, but it sucked spending all that time deciding only to have them disappear. In the case of the BPX PRO, they removed the 1TB drive from being available on Amazon altogether, so it might be a bit before it's available again. Not sure, just speculation.

 

[killster1]

I looked at Hp's support page for the EX920 when deciding, and I didn't see anything available for the drive (including no update for the reported temperature bug). Maybe it's buried somewhere on their site, but I didn't see it. https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-ex920-m.2-512gb-solid-state-drive/23815839



Sometimes it is, but in my case both of the drives I decided on went out of stock. I'm not sure if the NAND manufacturers are scaling back production because of falling prices or what, but it sucked spending all that time deciding only to have them disappear. In the case of the BPX PRO, they removed the 1TB drive from being available on Amazon altogether, so it might be a bit before it's available again. Not sure, just speculation.

shrug your right the website doesnt have the firmware update! https://www.multipointe.com/assets/2262-b16-update-tools-for-ex920-temperature.zip has it but HP.com well i dont see it. But i really dont care what its temp shows, airflow and heatsink what else can i do water cool it if i notice the temps rising ? : ) (but i think im lying im going to update the firmware tomorrow hah)

 

[aigomorla]

i have a 960 PRO 1TB and a 970 PRO 1TB

Love both of them.
Use the 970 PRO on games which have massive loading screens.
Use the 960 as a boot.

The 970 PRO on newegg is on sale as we speak for presidents day weekend.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147710

I also have the HP, but i threw that on another machine.

The only SSD i would probably pick over a sammy PRO for nvme is this badboy since i am running an intel system
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167458

but at 1200 dollars NTY!

 

[UsandThem]

I will say the 970 EVO Plus is not a NVMe drive I would put in a case with poor airflow, or in a laptop.

It runs much hotter than my 960 EVO; 48c at idle, and it hit 73c running CrystalDiskMark. And that's with both of the NVMe drives directly in front a 140mm front intake fan. You can see it idles 18c higher than the 960 EVO.

Not sure if it's an incorrect reading (maybe something that can be corrected with a firmware update), or if I will end up having to put a heatsink on it. I think Samsung's specs state it can go up to 85c before throttling).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Kind of interesting, that some people feel that 4KQD1 is the most important metric for an SSD, and my Crucial BX500 120GB 2.5" SATA6G SSD that I bought for $22.99, scores 37MB/sec in that benchmark in CDM. (I posted the benchmark screenshot in the "Cheap SSDs" thread in Hot Deals, I think.)

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/the-cheap-ssds-thread.2472749/page-25#post-39734035

Just an interesting data-point. Not suggesting that my cheap-o 120GB SATA SSD is benchmark-worthy next to your 970 Evo Plus.

 

[UsandThem]

Kind of interesting, that some people feel that 4KQD1 is the most important metric for an SSD, and my Crucial BX500 120GB 2.5" SATA6G SSD that I bought for $22.99, scores 37MB/sec in that benchmark in CDM. (I posted the benchmark screenshot in the "Cheap SSDs" thread in Hot Deals, I think.)

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/the-cheap-ssds-thread.2472749/page-25#post-39734035

Just an interesting data-point. Not suggesting that my cheap-o 120GB SATA SSD is benchmark-worthy next to your 970 Evo Plus.

Yeah, I kind of made a mistake when I ran CrystalDiskMark on my new drive. I kind of forgot I had my music library updating on it, so I'll have to rerun it after it's done to see how much the numbers change. Also, not to mention the 970 Plus is my new Windows 10 OS drive (and we all know how much Microsoft loves to run services non-stop in the background now).

But for now, here's what I just got on my 960 EVO (which is now my programs drive and mostly empty right at this point):

 

[VirtualLarry]

Alternatively, it's been said that in some cases, NVMe SSDs are not noticeably faster than SATA SSDs. Perhaps the relative lack of increase in 4KQD1 scores, is the reason? For other use-cases, with higher queue depths, like compiling, database access, and booting, certainly the QD is going to be higher, and the NVMe is going to excel in those cases. But day-to-day usage, outside slightly faster booting? Unless you're compiling or running a database server, it may not be the best use of money, if you're on a strict budget.

That being said, some drives, like the PCI-E 3.0 x2 NVMe Patriot Scorch M.2 SSD, that are available for 256GB for $37.99 recently on ShellShocker, which is barely a premium over SATA SSDs, and therefore, there's really no excuse not to go with an NVMe.

And for the more "Premium" drives, like the Samsung 960 Evo / 970 Evo / 970 Evo Plus, hey, if you've got the money, why not go for the best!

Edit: I could see SATA 2.5" SSDs being squeezed out, in the middle range. Cheap SATA 2.5" SSDs at the low end ($20 and below), are probably always going to be around, and at the high-end of capacity, for "online bulk-storage applications". But for mid-range configs, like I said, there are some very price-competitive NVMe drives, so much so, that I feel like anyone building a "modern desktop" rig these days, is going to end up with a mobo with an M.2 PCI-E NVMe slot, and therefore, should choose NVMe storage for their OS drive, over a SATA 2.5" SSD solution.

Of course, there are still a lot of laptops with 2.5" drive bays, that could use an SSD these days, or maybe they already have a 2.5" SSD, and need a replacement eventually or if their drive fails. So, for that reason alone, SATA 2.5" SSDs will probably stick around. However, one solution might be using SATA M.2 drives, in a "fake shell", that has a SATA 2.5" SSD casing, and has a socket for a SATA M.2 drive inside, that could be installed in a laptop that only has a SATA 2.5" drive bay, that would allow it to at least utilize SATA M.2 drives, if that's what's left of SATA in the future. M.2 is certain gaining momentum as a form-factor.

 

[aigomorla]

Not sure if it's an incorrect reading (maybe something that can be corrected with a firmware update), or if I will end up having to put a heatsink on it.

the NANDs like to run hot, the controller doesn't.
So i hear its a mixed consensus on if NVMe sinks are actually good as it will degrade the NAND chips faster.

Its based on per usage... if your running them hard, then yes, if your PC is sitting idle most of the time.. then i hear no...

If your not throttling, then i guess u dont want to run a sink.
If you are throttling, then by all means, run a heat sink.

I wish they made a sink that would just sit on top of the controller, and not the NANDs.

 

[UsandThem]

I wish they made a sink that would just sit on top of the controller, and not the NANDs.

True.

I imagine someone will being offering them (or even the NVMe makers themselves). With PCIe devices getting faster, and with PCIe 4.0 coming, I imagine the controllers will only continue to get hotter and hotter.

I still have an Kyro M.2 add-in card that is really nice, I just never really needed it for the 960 EVO as the temps really only ever got into the 50s. It will be something I'll consider once more people start reporting what the normal operating temps for the 970 EVO Plus is.

Nothing to be alarmed about since they are designed to go up to 85c, but I'd imagine if someone installed one in a closed-space area like a laptop, the idle temps would easily be in the upper 60s, and it wouldn't take much to get it to hit 85c.

 

[VirtualLarry]

With PCIe devices getting faster, and with PCIe 4.0 coming, I imagine the controllers will only continue to get hotter and hotter.

OF course, that could be the reason that shoots a hole in my theory that things are moving towards M.2. Some people that care about temps, might prefer SATA 2.5" SSD drives, purely for the cooling aspects of them, and the fact that they're not sandwiched underneath big hot video cards.

 

[cbn]

Alternatively, it's been said that in some cases, NVMe SSDs are not noticeably faster than SATA SSDs. Perhaps the relative lack of increase in 4KQD1 scores, is the reason? For other use-cases, with higher queue depths, like compiling, database access, and booting, certainly the QD is going to be higher, and the NVMe is going to excel in those cases. But day-to-day usage, outside slightly faster booting? Unless you're compiling or running a database server, it may not be the best use of money, if you're on a strict budget.

That being said, some drives, like the PCI-E 3.0 x2 NVMe Patriot Scorch M.2 SSD, that are available for 256GB for $37.99 recently on ShellShocker, which is barely a premium over SATA SSDs, and therefore, there's really no excuse not to go with an NVMe.

And for the more "Premium" drives, like the Samsung 960 Evo / 970 Evo / 970 Evo Plus, hey, if you've got the money, why not go for the best!

Edit: I could see SATA 2.5" SSDs being squeezed out, in the middle range. Cheap SATA 2.5" SSDs at the low end ($20 and below), are probably always going to be around, and at the high-end of capacity, for "online bulk-storage applications". But for mid-range configs, like I said, there are some very price-competitive NVMe drives, so much so, that I feel like anyone building a "modern desktop" rig these days, is going to end up with a mobo with an M.2 PCI-E NVMe slot, and therefore, should choose NVMe storage for their OS drive, over a SATA 2.5" SSD solution.

Of course, there are still a lot of laptops with 2.5" drive bays, that could use an SSD these days, or maybe they already have a 2.5" SSD, and need a replacement eventually or if their drive fails. So, for that reason alone, SATA 2.5" SSDs will probably stick around. However, one solution might be using SATA M.2 drives, in a "fake shell", that has a SATA 2.5" SSD casing, and has a socket for a SATA M.2 drive inside, that could be installed in a laptop that only has a SATA 2.5" drive bay, that would allow it to at least utilize SATA M.2 drives, if that's what's left of SATA in the future. M.2 is certain gaining momentum as a form-factor.

One reason Phison did release the E8 (which Patriot Scorch uses) was to compete with SATA:


http://www.thessdreview.com/ces-2017/phison-demos-entry-level-nvme-e8-controller-ces-2017-update/

But, as times are moving, Phison wants to go about delivering high performance in a more affordable way, and while doing so, help to drive the transition from SATA to PCIe. How are they going to go about that you may ask? By providing their latest PCIe 3.0 x2 NVMe PS5008-E8 and DRAM-less PS5008-E8T controllers to manufacturers at a similar cost to SATA.

And now with Host memory buffer working in Windows 10 I noticed the first SSD (the MydigitalSSD SBXe) with E8T (ie, dram-less E8) is coming. This should, of course, should narrow the gap even further.

With that mentioned, Phison is moving the next DRAM-less NVMe controller (E13) upmarket by having PCIe 3.0 x 4 rather than PCIe 3.0 x 2. So in this way Phison E13 and S13 (their upcoming SATA controller) have more separation than they would have if E13 was PCie 3.0 x 2.

Still you make a really good point with what you are writing. In fact, besides Phison I wonder if we will be seeing any new SATA controllers?

Marvell? They have been pretty quiet with SATA (e.g. 88SS1079 announced in January 2017 being only a packaging update of 88SS1074 released in 2014)

Silicon Motion? I don't see any new SATA on their roadmap.

Maxio technology? Maybe this one will have development?

 

[UsandThem]

I finally found a review where they tested the tempatures of the drive (I'm kind of surprised how many sites don't test for that anymore). So these new Samsung drives do run on the warm side compared to most other of their current competitors:

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/samsung_970_evo_plus_nvme_m_2_(1tb)_ssd_review,6.html

During our test benchmarks stress tests with a high-stress workload, we monitor the SSD temperature. The unit idles at roughly 45 Degrees C, the peak stress temperature measured hovers at roughly 80 Degrees C. So yeah, a motherboard m.2. heatsink cooling is recommended to prevent throttling.

 

[UsandThem]

I decided to throw the 970 EVO Plus in my KyroM.2 add-in card to see how much of a difference a heatsink made. Here were the starting and end results.

Before running the test the drive temp was now 27c:



After the test finished, the drive only hit 35c:



Some interesting results. Some results went up compared to running it in the motherboard's M.2 slot without a heatsink, while some results when down (most noticeably the 4K Q32T1 results). I think I am going to order a heatsink that still allows me to install it in the motherboard's M.2 slot so I get the cooler temps and the best all-around performance. One thing is for sure, my max temp was 73c running CrystalDiskMark, and with a heatsink it only hit 35c. That's quite a difference.

 

[cbn]

That being said, some drives, like the PCI-E 3.0 x2 NVMe Patriot Scorch M.2 SSD, that are available for 256GB for $37.99 recently on ShellShocker, which is barely a premium over SATA SSDs, and therefore, there's really no excuse not to go with an NVMe.

Right now it is $42.99 FS (but back ordered):

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820225109&ignorebbr=1

Not bad considering TBW is 150.

 

[DrMrLordX]

OF course, that could be the reason that shoots a hole in my theory that things are moving towards M.2. Some people that care about temps, might prefer SATA 2.5" SSD drives, purely for the cooling aspects of them, and the fact that they're not sandwiched underneath big hot video cards.

If only the industry had embraced U.2 for consumer devices. Best of both worlds.

 

[cbn]

the NANDs like to run hot, the controller doesn't.
So i hear its a mixed consensus on if NVMe sinks are actually good as it will degrade the NAND chips faster.

Its based on per usage... if your running them hard, then yes, if your PC is sitting idle most of the time.. then i hear no...

If your not throttling, then i guess u dont want to run a sink.
If you are throttling, then by all means, run a heat sink.

I wish they made a sink that would just sit on top of the controller, and not the NANDs.

Maybe more SSDs should not have a sticker over the controller?

Then a self sticking copper heatsink could be placed on top of the controller?

 

[UsandThem]

OK, after a lost package from Amazon on Monday, I finally got my M.2 heatsink today. After seeing a review on the current products out there, I went with the SilverStone TP02-M2. I intially went with the AuquaComputer Kyro 53247, but the SilverStone silicone bands looked easier to get on than the metal clips.

That said, one of the silicone bands snapped when I was putting it on, so I ended up having to use electrical tape on one side. I don't have a windowed case, so the looks of it doesn't bother me. However, SilverStone really needs to make their bands thicker, because they are about as thick as a regular rubber band, and as I found out, are very easy to snap.

After installing the heatsink, my idle temp on the 970 EVO Plus as 39c (was 48c at idle bare drive). While the load temp was 55c (down from 73c at load bare drive). So the heatsink does make a big difference especially at load temperatures.






And yes, I did put the heatsink on upside down (the logo is the wrong way), but since I have no window, all I care about are the temperatures: