I don't understand why some people still respect the confederate flag

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Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
What's wrong with state pride?

When states are more interested in keeping States Rights alive instead of working as a union itself, it becomes a flat tire. What happens to a car when it has only 3 good tires?

It's not going anywhere fast.[/quote]:roll::thumbsdown:

 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
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Come on, RD, you can do better than that. ;)

How about a thesis on what the Founders thought of States Rights? How about a intepretation of the Constitution, with biblographies a mile long?

If there's no unity in spirit, how can a union be?
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn


Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Red Dawn

What's wrong with state pride?

When states are more interested in keeping States Rights alive instead of working as a union itself, it becomes a flat tire. What happens to a car when it has only 3 good tires?

It's not going anywhere fast.
:roll::thumbsdown:

Gonna agree with you Red. I take great pride in the fact that I'm from NY, even though in some regards the state is back-asswards.

No one who has state pride these days is talking about seceding from the Union (well, most people don't). It's just a matter of being proud of where you're from. The US is so big that it's just not as simple as saying you're an American. Hell, people from Italy usually refer to the provinces they're born in when asking where they're from, instead of just saying Italy. As do most other people where there is such a big cultural gap within a country.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Come on, RD, you can do better than that. ;)

How about a thesis on what the Founders thought of States Rights? How about a intepretation of the Constitution, with biblographies a mile long?

If there's no unity in spirit, how can a union be?
How about you getting a clue! One can be proud of both his state and country!
 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
If there's no unity in spirit, how can a union be?
How about you getting a clue! One can be proud of both his state and country!
[/quote]

Interesting that you put state before the union.

BTW, RD, I have a long clue on the subject, especially with Neo-Confederates. You know those Sons of the South and their new revision of Southern history? It's really funny when they claim the flag means nothing about slavery, but the same folks who claim it see nothing wrong in using it while protesting at a Black college, either.

When does one's rights to their history can trample on the rights of others who were trampled for generations by that history?

When man can start focusing on the greater good than solely for himself, society becomes stronger as everyone works to build it.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
If there's no unity in spirit, how can a union be?
How about you getting a clue! One can be proud of both his state and country!

Interesting that you put state before the union.[/quote] Yeah real interesting:roll:

BTW, RD, I have a long clue on the subject, especially with Neo-Confederates. You know those Sons of the South and their new revision of Southern history? It's really funny when they claim the flag means nothing about slavery, but the same folks who claim it see nothing wrong in using it while protesting at a Black college, either.
The funny thing is that those same people have used the American Flag and the Bible to do the same thing!

When does one's rights to their history can trample on the rights of others who were trampled for generations by that history?

When man can start focusing on the greater good than solely for himself, society becomes stronger as everyone works to build it.
And that has fsck all to do with the Confederate Flag!
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
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Originally posted by: aRCeNiTe
To me the confederate flag is a symbol of our nation's beginning. Racism (Slavery) is only a very minute part of that.

You would think the colonial 13-state flag would be a symbol of our nation's beginning. Considering it was the flag used by the first 13 states. I can tell you when I think of the confederate flag, I rarely think of the first 13 states...
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
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BTW I don't see any problem with State flags, but I do agree with Terumo a little bit. If your state pride is greater than your country pride, I think there is a problem. I don't feel proud to be from NH, I feel proud to be an american and a human being. NH is just the state I live in. I wouldn't throw the NH flag on the back of my subaru or wear clothing with the NH flag on it or anything. Usually you only see the NH flag at government buildings. I think there is a problem if you create an attitude of competition between states, states should not be competing against one and other but helping each other.
 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Yeah real interesting:roll:

Is it subconscious?

The funny thing is that those same people have used the American Flag and the Bible to do the same thing!

Wrong analogy. The Stars and Stripes reflect all Americans of all races and socioeconomic groups, it's all what America was and will become.

The confederate battle flag is a symbol of oppression and the bloodiest battles this country has faced. What pride is there of spilled blood for a lost cause?

The bible is another matter and not germane to this discussion.

And that has fsck all to do with the Confederate Flag!

Everything. :)
 

Feldenak

Lifer
Jan 31, 2003
14,090
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Originally posted by: Terumo
What pride is there of spilled blood for a lost cause?

Actually it is still an ongoing fight. Think about the continuously growing federal government.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Come on, RD, you can do better than that. ;)

How about a thesis on what the Founders thought of States Rights? How about a intepretation of the Constitution, with biblographies a mile long?

If there's no unity in spirit, how can a union be?

Soviet era Russia was pretty united as well ;)
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Terumo
The Stars and Stripes reflect all Americans of all races and socioeconomic groups, it's all what America was and will become.

The confederate battle flag is a symbol of oppression and the bloodiest battles this country has faced. What pride is there of spilled blood for a lost cause?
Well these days the Stars and Bars represents Cultural Indentity for most and nothing more. Most don't view it in the same light as the Stars and Stripes, I know I don't.

 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
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Originally posted by: skace
BTW I don't see any problem with State flags, but I do agree with Terumo a little bit. If your state pride is greater than your country pride, I think there is a problem. I don't feel proud to be from NH, I feel proud to be an american and a human being. NH is just the state I live in. I wouldn't throw the NH flag on the back of my subaru or wear clothing with the NH flag on it or anything. Usually you only see the NH flag at government buildings. I think there is a problem if you create an attitude of competition between states, states should not be competing against one and other but helping each other.

I'm proud of where I was born and raised, but my loyality is to my country. Without my country no state could exist, and without unity our country could not be what it is now or what it can be tomorrow.

When folks talk of states rights are more important than this country, the first symbol I see is that bloody confederate flag of rebellion. That's not about making this country great, or uniting it through troubled and good times, it's about remembering a past that's best not remembered.

Do folks want to remember The Trail of Tears forever? The Crusades? The mass executions and exterminations for being different? By division it is possible.

 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
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Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: Terumo
What pride is there of spilled blood for a lost cause?

Actually it is still an ongoing fight. Think about the continuously growing federal government.

The government will continually grow when the people who claim state's rights are important help to make it grow! lololol

How many of those tax and spend republicans are state's righters?

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: skace
BTW I don't see any problem with State flags, but I do agree with Terumo a little bit. If your state pride is greater than your country pride, I think there is a problem. I don't feel proud to be from NH, I feel proud to be an american and a human being. NH is just the state I live in. I wouldn't throw the NH flag on the back of my subaru or wear clothing with the NH flag on it or anything. Usually you only see the NH flag at government buildings. I think there is a problem if you create an attitude of competition between states, states should not be competing against one and other but helping each other.

I'm proud of where I was born and raised, but my loyality is to my country. Without my country no state could exist, and without unity our country could not be what it is now or what it can be tomorrow.
I agree with you 100%

When folks talk of states rights are more important than this country
Ah but I never said that
 

Feldenak

Lifer
Jan 31, 2003
14,090
2
81
Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: Terumo
What pride is there of spilled blood for a lost cause?

Actually it is still an ongoing fight. Think about the continuously growing federal government.

The government will continually grow when the people who claim state's rights are important help to make it grow! lololol

How many of those tax and spend republicans are state's righters?

Probably about the same percentage as the democrats. Then again, I never mentioned either in my post. I'm conservative...that doesn't make me a republican.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: skace
BTW I don't see any problem with State flags, but I do agree with Terumo a little bit. If your state pride is greater than your country pride, I think there is a problem. I don't feel proud to be from NH, I feel proud to be an american and a human being. NH is just the state I live in. I wouldn't throw the NH flag on the back of my subaru or wear clothing with the NH flag on it or anything. Usually you only see the NH flag at government buildings. I think there is a problem if you create an attitude of competition between states, states should not be competing against one and other but helping each other.

I'm proud of where I was born and raised, but my loyality is to my country. Without my country no state could exist, and without unity our country could not be what it is now or what it can be tomorrow.

When folks talk of states rights are more important than this country, the first symbol I see is that bloody confederate flag of rebellion. That's not about making this country great, or uniting it through troubled and good times, it's about remembering a past that's best not remembered.

Do folks want to remember The Trail of Tears forever? The Crusades? The mass executions and exterminations for being different? By division it is possible.

What about the couple of million that died during the Bolshevik Revolution and shortly after? Lenin was a uniter not a divider, where is his props?

I'm part Cherokee, so yes I will remember the Trail of Tears forever. Will I hold a grudge? No, because all those butchers and barbarians are long dead.

Do you forget that we were once a British colony and had to rebel to become what we are today?
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Soviet era Russia was pretty united as well ;)

Are you claiming the US isn't an union because of federal control?

Our forefathers put that clause "States Rights" in to the Constitution because of the whole Revolutionary War thing....you know the one where the US divided itself from Britain...

They did not want the same thing to happen here, where one force swallowed up and stomped on the rights of others...Lincoln wiped his ass with the Constitution.
 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
0
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Originally posted by: Nitemare
What about the couple of million that died during the Bolshevik Revolution and shortly after? Lenin was a uniter not a divider, where is his props?

And how many American Tories died for their King? Where are their props?

You do realize the South was very Tory? Do you know the "payback" Georgia gave to the Tories after the Revolution was over? If they didn't spend their days in prison, they were expelled from this country and forfeited their property in the process.

Wonderful way to start a country too, huh?

I'm part Cherokee, so yes I will remember the Trail of Tears forever. Will I hold a grudge? No, because all those butchers and barbarians are long dead.

1%/10%/50% Cherokee is a lot different than 100%, Nitemare. I'm 50% Japanese does that make me Japanese? Because we're not fully Cherokee or Japanese our views are shaped by the country we live in which influence our mores, unlike those from the old world. If your ancestors were alive today as they were yesterday, I doubt they'd hold the same view.

Do you forget that we were once a British colony and had to rebel to become what we are today?

No. :)
 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
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Originally posted by: Feldenak
Probably about the same percentage as the democrats. Then again, I never mentioned either in my post. I'm conservative...that doesn't make me a republican.

That's obvious, since I'm a Traditional Conservative (except on social issues where I'm very moderate upon) myself. ;) I'm no friend of the Neo-Cons, who think nothing of legislating the bedrooms, let alone our classrooms. :)

 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Nitemare
What about the couple of million that died during the Bolshevik Revolution and shortly after? Lenin was a uniter not a divider, where is his props?

And how many American Tories died for their King? Where are their props?

You do realize the South was very Tory? Do you know the "payback" Georgia gave to the Tories after the Revolution was over? If they didn't spend their days in prison, they were expelled from this country and forfeited their property in the process.

Wonderful way to start a country too, huh?

I'm part Cherokee, so yes I will remember the Trail of Tears forever. Will I hold a grudge? No, because all those butchers and barbarians are long dead.

1%/10%/50% Cherokee is a lot different than 100%, Nitemare. I'm 50% Japanese does that make me Japanese? Because we're not fully Cherokee or Japanese our views are shaped by the country we live in which influence our mores, unlike those from the old world. If your ancestors were alive today as they were yesterday, I doubt they'd hold the same view.

Do you forget that we were once a British colony and had to rebel to become what we are today?

No. :)

1. Nobody remembers or cares for the losers of wars especially the Benedict Arnolds, on the winning side of course. The Torries had it coming. The Torries obtained this property how?

2. Do you hold half your ancestors in contempt for what they did to the Chinese people...the experimentations, comfort girls and the like? If your ancestors were alive today would they still have the same views?Sorry, but you went there.

"If you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it."
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Probably about the same percentage as the democrats. Then again, I never mentioned either in my post. I'm conservative...that doesn't make me a republican.

That's obvious, since I'm a Traditional Conservative (except on social issues where I'm very moderate upon) myself. ;) I'm no friend of the Neo-Cons, who think nothing of legislating the bedrooms, let alone our classrooms. :)

Wow, I'm completely amazed...Libertarian/Constitutionalist myself