I don't understand why some people still respect the confederate flag

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Cowtown

Member
Apr 2, 2001
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I was born and raised in Alabama and only left for a higher education and a better job. I grew up with the Confederate Flag and I grew up with racist, but they were never connected in our day-to-day life style. Racist are racist and as someone said earlier "based on ignorant assumptions" says it all. The confederate flag was used by many schools and as an everyday symbol of pride and unity. This was community pride and unity it was never linked to racism or bigotry in our minds or our life style. I've been in Texas since I left Alabama and I find (and have adopted) the same pride for the Texas flag. I find the feelings to be very similar to that we had for the Confederate Flag in Alabama.

I kinda miss the Confederate Flag because it is part of my heritage and I sometimes resent giving it up because someone finds it offensive. But hey, life is about compromise. Just don't make me start hiding my Texas flag too... A lot of us Americans like to define ourselves at least one notch below the national level.
 

UbiSunt

Senior member
Oct 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
1. The reconstruction pissed off the already-mutilated remains of a very proud South.
2. The recosntruction was finally put down by proud southerners. As a result, this created a virtual Renaissance of Southern Pride long after the Civil War.

Their only remaining symbol was the Confederate flag, so they displayed it with pride.

Does it in principle deal with slavery and racism? No.
However, is it used in reference to such things? Definitely

The only remaining symbols were the battle flag, the KKK, lynchings and Jim Crow laws.

Then folks wonder why Blacks can get really upset about that flag??

The Klan was just a group of bitter white men who hated the idea of blacks being equal. It didn't help that the Republicans down South did everything they could to stir up bitter race relations.

Wow. News flash, the only Republicans in the South during Reconstruction were African-Americans and carpet-baggers from the North. The Klan was solely composed of Democrats.

In response to the Reconstruction comments, Eric Foner (the preminent historian on Reconstruction) argues that the failure of Reconstruction had every bit as much to do with corrupt Northern politicians as Southern resistance.
 

UbiSunt

Senior member
Oct 1, 2004
516
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Also the KKK did not exist until Reconstruction. There was no Klan before or during the war.

Also, if the Confederate flag is racist, then so is the British flag because England backed the Confederate States of America throughout the Civil War therefore directly supporting slavery because they were buying the South's cotton for their textile mills.
 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
10,491
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Originally posted by: UbiSunt
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
1. The reconstruction pissed off the already-mutilated remains of a very proud South.
2. The recosntruction was finally put down by proud southerners. As a result, this created a virtual Renaissance of Southern Pride long after the Civil War.

Their only remaining symbol was the Confederate flag, so they displayed it with pride.

Does it in principle deal with slavery and racism? No.
However, is it used in reference to such things? Definitely

The only remaining symbols were the battle flag, the KKK, lynchings and Jim Crow laws.

Then folks wonder why Blacks can get really upset about that flag??

The Klan was just a group of bitter white men who hated the idea of blacks being equal. It didn't help that the Republicans down South did everything they could to stir up bitter race relations.

Wow. News flash, the only Republicans in the South during Reconstruction were African-Americans and carpet-baggers from the North. The Klan was solely composed of Democrats.

In response to the Reconstruction comments, Eric Foner (the preminent historian on Reconstruction) argues that the failure of Reconstruction had every bit as much to do with corrupt Northern politicians as Southern resistance.

Aside from the Radicals who became governers of the Southern states.
 

UbiSunt

Senior member
Oct 1, 2004
516
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Yeah, but there never would have been a Civil War if the British had not been defeated in the most decisive battle in modern history by guess who? Southerners at the Battle of New Orleans in the War of 1812. A ragtag group of pirates and Cajuns defeated the best army in the world that had walked all over the Northerners and Gen. Packingham, the second best commander in the British forces. You Northerners couldn't even stop the White House from getting burned down. Did we get any thanks; nope.
:D
 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
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Originally posted by: UbiSunt
Also the KKK did not exist until Reconstruction. There was no Klan before or during the war.

Also, if the Confederate flag is racist, then so is the British flag because England backed the Confederate States of America throughout the Civil War therefore directly supporting slavery because they were buying the South's cotton for their textile mills.

To the Scots, Welsh and Irish the British flag doesn't necessary mean unity. Many of their ancestors were oppressed, tortured and killed to make it.

The Old Deep South has always been partial to Britain (in fact the South was more Tory). The well to do would buy tea and textiles and import governesses from Britain too. It's why we have a high tolerance to drinking a-l-o-t of tea. ;) Until Starbucks came around, rarely did anyone drink coffee around here, and that only with breakfast.
 

thehstrybean

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 2004
5,727
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Originally posted by: xEDIT409
You know?

I mean that's why the Confederate states wanted to seperate, right? To make slavery legal, so their economy, which depended heavily on slavery, wouldn't collapse.

I don't get why sometimes, I see the Confederate Flag on cars or something. I mean, it's not like you've lost a slave or somthing.

Don't really feel like reading all the post, so I'll just respond to this...You assumed the Civil War was due to slavery..Slavery was a big part, but it was only a catalyst...The Southern states wanted to have their rights protected (they felt that if Lincoln was elected, he would kill slavery all together, and that would be infinging on the Southerner's right to their "property"...Yeah, too bad their property were real human beings like you and me, just a different color)...The Southern economy was not about to collapse...The South, economically, was doing great...Let me find the figures...The thing that really ticked 'em off was the high tarriff (Tarriff of Abomination) that took a lot of money from them and gave it to Northerners to build railroads....
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: notfred
A friend of mine had a nazi flag hung on his wall because he thought it looked cool. He wasn't a nazi.

A true WWII Nazi flag?!?! :Q

Does he want to sell it?

EDIT: I'm a bit late to the party I see... About 12 pages late.....
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,429
12,971
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Originally posted by: mobobuff
Originally posted by: jagec
To a southerner, the Confederate flag doesn't mean racism so much as "southern pride" or 'southern unity".

You'll notice the OP is in Michigan. As am I. And his question plagues me too. So allow me to permutate it... "Why do Northerners with no Southern affiliation love the 'Confederate flag' so much? Ignoring the fact that the flag they fly is actually not the official Confederacy flag, but one that belonged to a ship."

My conclusion is that they're both racist and ignorant (which hasn't failed to be correct, seeing as how I've known most of the people who've displayed the flag... it's a small town).


I live in Madison, WI and hardly ever see that crap down here....but I also grew up in Green Bay (Midwest hick central, USA) and I used to see flags on peoples jacked up mudboggers or crappy little pick-ups all the time. I believe a lot of the people who proudly display the flag probably don't know jack about the Civil war-time south, they just idolize the notion of hating "ni**ers and s***ks and g**ks as they might put it. I grew up around a lot of bigots and rednecks and ignorant-a$$ people. I think it's just an ideal to a lot of them. That's also why I generally hate Green Bay: It's as if a lot of the people there (not all) are 30 years or more behind the times, and are living in some pre-integration cloud where they think only they have the right to be here.
 

thehstrybean

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 2004
5,727
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Originally posted by: UbiSunt
Also, if the Confederate flag is racist, then so is the British flag because England backed the Confederate States of America throughout the Civil War therefore directly supporting slavery because they were buying the South's cotton for their textile mills.
Britian didn't buy Southern cotton...they couldn't do to the blockade...They also never supported the South...

To the comments on Reconstruction (w00t! We just finished this unit!): Reconstruction fell for 3 reasons
1) Political: The Compromise of 1877 screwed Reconstruction...The North withdrew it's troops from the South, leaving the racist down to South to terrorize...How? By intimidating Southern Republican's who would vote...
2) Economic: The debate over hard vs soft cash & the fact that by the time Southern farmers were given their land back (under the Amnesty Act), it was too late to plant, so they went that year without a crop...Bad news for a part of the country that depends on planting...
3) Judicial: The Supreme Court overruled just about every Act that was meant to protect blacks..Check out the Slaughterhouse Cases, US v Reese, US v Cruishank, and the 1883 Civil Rights Cases...The Cliff Notes: In all of these cases, the Court (through some pretty odd interpretation) ruled the 14th Admentment nearly void and blew every Act that protected blacks out of the water....
 

UbiSunt

Senior member
Oct 1, 2004
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Britain never offically endorsed, key word officially, endorsed the South. The Confederacy winning supported British interests in several ways. First, there would be two smaller countries to deal with instead of the United States. Economically, yes the British were making a hell of a lot of money making textiles from southern produced cotton. The North was the only major textile area in America, therefore the South needed someone else to trade with. Anyway, it looks like you missed my point.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: UbiSunt
Yeah, but there never would have been a Civil War if the British had not been defeated in the most decisive battle in modern history by guess who? Southerners at the Battle of New Orleans in the War of 1812. A ragtag group of pirates and Cajuns defeated the best army in the world that had walked all over the Northerners and Gen. Packingham, the second best commander in the British forces. You Northerners couldn't even stop the White House from getting burned down. Did we get any thanks; nope.
:D

The Battle of New Orleans happened after the War of 1812 was officially over.
 

thehstrybean

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 2004
5,727
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Originally posted by: UbiSunt
Britain never offically endorsed, key word officially, endorsed the South. The Confederacy winning supported British interests in several ways. First, there would be two smaller countries to deal with instead of the United States. Economically, yes the British were making a hell of a lot of money making textiles from southern produced cotton. The North was the only major textile area in America, therefore the South needed someone else to trade with. Anyway, it looks like you missed my point.
No, I got your point, I'm just saying that Britian didn't make that much from Southern cotton...blockade...

 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: Amused
I lived in the South for just over 10 years (GA, SC and NC). From my experience the vast majority of people who display the flag do so in a show of cultural unity and heritage, not racism.

Most will also display a sticker, shirt or sign with the slogan, "Heritage, Not Hate."

The South has a very different culture than the North. The North has a rather twisted view of the South. It is only natural that the South would hold on to their cultural identity.

So, in my opinion, people who say displaying the flag is "racist" are being simplistic and ignorant. That is not why the vast majority of Southerners display the flag.

In fact, the whole idea that the flag is inherently "racist" is a rather new one. Just 25 years or so ago one of the most popular TV shows in the nation had a car driven by the stars with the flag painted on the roof and hood. No one complained then, because no one thought the flag was inherently racist.

Weird what 25 years of PC bullsh!t can do, huh? Do you think that car and show would air today without complaint?

Yup that way in KY too I see it almost everyday in a small city or big town...

If you don't understand you need to see more of the south in a vaction or something. I still don't understand why anyone would like to live in SoCal, but I have never been there so when I do go I might open my eyes a bit and see what all the hub bub is all about. ;)

Just Curious did you know that General Lee was asked to be the commander of the union army before he became the commander of the confederate army? States had their own brand of nationalism he was a Virginian and the vast majority of Virginia was favoring the southern view so he declined the Union Army and well the rest is history so they say. :D
 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
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Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Amused
I lived in the South for just over 10 years (GA, SC and NC). From my experience the vast majority of people who display the flag do so in a show of cultural unity and heritage, not racism.

Most will also display a sticker, shirt or sign with the slogan, "Heritage, Not Hate."

The South has a very different culture than the North. The North has a rather twisted view of the South. It is only natural that the South would hold on to their cultural identity.

So, in my opinion, people who say displaying the flag is "racist" are being simplistic and ignorant. That is not why the vast majority of Southerners display the flag.

In fact, the whole idea that the flag is inherently "racist" is a rather new one. Just 25 years or so ago one of the most popular TV shows in the nation had a car driven by the stars with the flag painted on the roof and hood. No one complained then, because no one thought the flag was inherently racist.

Weird what 25 years of PC bullsh!t can do, huh? Do you think that car and show would air today without complaint?

Yup that way in KY too I see it almost everyday in a small city or big town...

If you don't understand you need to see more of the south in a vaction or something. I still don't understand why anyone would like to live in SoCal, but I have never been there so when I do go I might open my eyes a bit and see what all the hub bub is all about. ;)

Just Curious did you know that General Lee was asked to be the commander of the union army before he became the commander of the confederate army? States had their own brand of nationalism he was a Virginian and the vast majority of Virginia was favoring the southern view so he declined the Union Army and well the rest is history so they say. :D

Yeah, he resigned his commission in the Federal army to fight for his state.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
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The confederate flag shows unity, but unity to who? To the south. In other words, the confederate flag displays seperation. It would be the same as if New Englanders proudly displayed the flag of the original 13 colonies as a sign of unity within New England. It isn't that we don't respect our original flag, it is that we feel it is history and not present day, these days we are part of AMERICA, which has a flag of its own.
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,573
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Originally posted by: skace
The confederate flag shows unity, but unity to who? To the south. In other words, the confederate flag displays seperation. It would be the same as if New Englanders proudly displayed the flag of the original 13 colonies as a sign of unity within New England. It isn't that we don't respect our original flag, it is that we feel it is history and not present day, these days we are part of AMERICA, which has a flag of its own.



So we should get rid of our state flags as well then, because we are part of AMERICA, which has a flag of its own.



 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
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Originally posted by: daveymark
So we should get rid of our state flags as well then, because we are part of AMERICA, which has a flag of its own.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. The Stars and Stripes shows unity of all states, from the original 13 colonies, to all 50 states. State flags are about pride of one's state, not of the union.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: daveymark
So we should get rid of our state flags as well then, because we are part of AMERICA, which has a flag of its own.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. The Stars and Stripes shows unity of all states, from the original 13 colonies, to all 50 states. State flags are about pride of one's state, not of the union.
What's wrong with state pride?
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
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Originally posted by: daveymark
So we should get rid of our state flags as well then, because we are part of AMERICA, which has a flag of its own.

Well, state still has representation within America. It is how our country is compartmentalized. If the south became 1 big state and the confederate flag was their state flag, this would be a whole nother discussion. The analogy I used of the original 13-star flag was far more valid.
 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
What's wrong with state pride?[/quote]

When states are more interested in keeping States Rights alive instead of working as a union itself, it becomes a flat tire. What happens to a car when it has only 3 good tires?

It's not going anywhere fast.
 

arcenite

Lifer
Dec 9, 2001
10,660
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To me the confederate flag is a symbol of our nation's beginning. Racism (Slavery) is only a very minute part of that.