I Don't Need A Dash-Cam, but I DO Need To Mount A Backup Cam To My Trooper's Tailgate Door

[BonzaiDuck]

In some other threads, I summarized my experience with installing an "FM-Transmitter-Bluetooth-MP3 Player in my dashboard. The pictures are all there in my MP3 thread, and the chosen MP3 player was a product from a Chinese outfit named "JINSERTA". The Chinese don't just steal intellectual property, patents and copyrights from the West: They steal from each other. So, one of their companies, like JINSERTA, could manufacture an absolutely outstanding MP3 player, with robust programming for such a small and inexpensive device (<= $20) that seems to be made for someone with small fingers. (Not to mind though, just don't bite off all your fingernails because you may need them to work the nicely-padded and responsive push-button controls.) Another Chinese company may buy the identical hardware, maybe even from JINSERTA, and implement sloppy programming that renders the device barely useful. At least they didn't steal the programming -- just the hardware and its design.

OK, then! I'm retro-fitting my '95 Trooper to bring it into the 21st century. The MP3 Player was a first step, because I just wanted an MP3 Player that allowed me to keep my OEM digital receiver and perfectly functioning 12-CD Changer that came as options for that year's Trooper. Then, my ambitions grew, based on my spotty but growing familiarity with things provided in recent-model vehicles. They've got backup cameras, with guide-lines. The monitor may be a separate affair, but you can spend $1,000 for a Pioneer double-DIN Android receiver that can be integrated with a wireless -- or wired -- backup camera. And since the Android double-DIN receiver is built around an entertainment device that offers up digital radio -- maybe HD radio -- ability to play MP3, WAV and FLAC files from a USB thumb drive, for $1,000, that is truly your ultimate solution, unless -- as I resolved -- to keep the OEM receiver for its integrated 12-CD-Changer. I don't think they offer vehicles anymore with 12-CD changers, although there are many aftermarket brands of Changers which you may be able to match with the receiver you have or the one you will have.

So now, I've added a Vankyo 7-inch Android tablet with Bluetooth, Wi-Fi (wireless IP connection), GPS, and FM radio built in. The biggest hurdle, really, was mounting it to the dashboard in a way that will leave me satisfied. My mounting isn't finished yet, but it will be built around parts from the OHLPRO Tablet Holder Car Air Vent Mount,OHLPRO Universal Dashboard Windshield 2-in-1 Cradle TPU Suction Sticky Gel for iPad/iPad Mini Samsung Galaxy Size 6"- 10.5" All Tablets (from Amazon). There are many of these devices, some made more with trucks in mind, others intended for vehicles of different designs. The biggest problem with this one has indications from users that it "doesn't stick to the dashboard", as well as users who say they had a terrible time removing it from the dashboard. Well, a thin film of petroleum jelly and focused attention to the device during installation resolves problems of the former kind, and if you're thoughtful about where you want the holder mounted, you might not care about trouble removing it anytime soon.

The Trooper audio system between about 1994 and 2002 -- the last year ISUZU produced the Trooper -- was outstanding for those years -- even "forward-looking". You can buy extra magazines for the CD-Changer, and carry around 36 or 48 CDs ready to pop into the changer 12 at a time. The speaker system features two tweeters crossed over with a front set of two low-to-midrange 5.25" speakers, and two rear 4" midrange speakers limited in their bass production. Adjustments on the receiver really make it possible to feel and hear that "3D concert-hall" effect. The receiver featured a cassette-deck (of course!), the CD-changer and the digital FM tuner. But no USB ports; no MP3 capability. Adding my MP3 player solved that.

However, with another Bluetooth device known as the Aluratek Universal Bluetooth Audio Cassette Receiver, the less-than-perfect reproduction of MP3's broadcast to the OEM receiver is outmatched by the clarity and volume offered by the Aluratek. The Jinserta is acceptably good, but there is a volume limitation, and because of the FM strategy, a slight departure from brilliant clarity. The Aluratek offers brilliant clarity.

Once the Aluratek is paired via Bluetooth with an Android tablet like mine, you get Google Maps voice navigation, and you can quickly come up to speed in "tablet skills" by simply announcing addresses, locations or commercial buildings, and the Android with Google Maps has outstanding voice-recognition. This is all great, because you don't want to be fiddling with your tablet and find yourself in a costly accident as might happen with people wrapped up in their cell-phones while driving. The Google "Lady" temporarily suppresses music play when "she" announces directions -- "Turn left in 100 feet" etc.

There are enough possible situations in which you might want to pair the Android with the JINSERTA, and still get voice navigation and the same disciplined behavior for music-play. But even if those situations are less probable or likely, you still need a USB charging capability for the Android and the Aluratek, and the JINSERTA fills the bill with an extra charging port on top of the USB port for a thumb-drive of music files.

So I can get my sounds from three different combinations of sources and components: the CD Changer, the MP3 player, or the Android paired with either the Aluratek or the JINSERTA device.

So what about a camera system? THINKWARE offers some promising kits like the Q800PRO, offering a front dashboard cam with recording capability and a rear backup cam integrated with it, using their proprietary software and Wi-Fi for connection to an Apple or Android device. But these kits are at price-points between $300 and $400. Stylish-looking, to be sure, but customer-review-skinny suggests the Night-Vision isn't quite up to snuff. I don't know -- we can check it out again, but as I said -- ah -- $400? I opted instead for the Rohent HD WiFi Digital Wireless Backup Camera. Here, we're talking about a mere $90 plus tax and shipping. The Rohent arrives tomorrow, and I expect -- as some customers pointed out -- that I can test it just by plugging into the cigar lighter, moving forward later when I attend to a proper rear-window mounting. More revelations tomorrow, with the expected delivery of the Rohent cam.

So -- Gee! -- don't a want a dashboard camera? Sure -- that's just fine by me. We'll, the Vankyo Android tablet has an 8MP rear camera in addition to the selfie-cam. Here are pictures of my experience so far. First, the dashboard mounting with the OHLPRO device -- some unfinished business for augmenting it that can easily wait for later or wait forever:



In order to use the Android's FM radio, a 3.5mm stereo phone cable is necessary to serve as antenna -- the cable you see limp on my dash. I'll attend to neat cable installation, and I'm expecting just the right sized USB-to-Micro-USB cable tomorrow for keeping the Android charged in the car. To charge the android, I need only turn on the MP3 player, turn off its music play, and the device continues to feed its 2.4A charging port. The camera view with the current mounting shows the road in front in about 2/3 of the screen -- at the bottom a nice picture of my windshield wipers and dash-board window heater vents. The tablet needs to be raised about 1/2", so it will have slightly less of the low- profile that I originally intended -- a matter of compromise with the OHLPRO's suction cup installation, as opposed to the air-vent louvre hook. The vent-louver hook device does not offer a stable-enough installation to the dashboard, and well-tutored rumor suggests you can damage your air-vents with them, especially with a large-enough tablet (another reason I bought the 7-inch Vankyo). But the OHLPRO offers a simple adjustment for that extra 1/2". And the adjustment doesn't obscure the window or even the wipers.

Next, an uninteresting photo of the Android main screen from the driver's angle:



And this is why I don't need to buy a dashboard camera:




There may be a lag of a fraction of a second. I'd feel uncomfortable playing "Sergeant Fury, Tank Commander" and steering the car by looking at the Android, but it's possible, compelling one to drive carefully. I wouldn't do it. But you want the dash-cam to provide a record in case of an accident, and while there are additional features with a "dash-cam kit with monitor" -- G-Sensors, rotation of files, etc. -- the Android can do it with its 128GB SDXC card. I'm guessing that a two-hour trip consumes as much disc-space as a full-length movie, or between 2 and 5 GB. And the Android will record video as well as snaps.

Is my ride gonna be bad? Or what? Bad-ba-bad-bad-BA-ud! I gotta Bad Ride!

Someone asked about the number of steps and "tasks" I must follow to get the car down the road with everything connected and running, as opposed to the more elegant operation of similar features built-in to new, more expensive vehicle models.

Step #1 -- turn on the Android -- doesn't need anything from the ACC/accessory circuit.

Step #2 -- The Aluratek can remain in the cassette player between motoring trips. It can be turned on by using an item the shape of a ball-point pen, to reach its "On/Off" button which is partially obscured with the tape already mounted. So -- I carry a ball-point pen.

Pairing should take place automatically, if the Android has been prepared for pairing previously on the "Communication Devices" options in the Setup menu.

At this point, let me explain that the "Apps" needed on the tablet should already be "active" -- minimized or partially suspended:
-- Google Maps
-- Google Music Play, or a similar program that displays play-lists and MP3 files.
-- Camera -- for the rear-cam "dash-cam" operation of the Android
-- The backup camera software or app, after the one-time configuration of the wi-fi camera and the wi-fi network feature of the Android.

So these apps will always be "open/suspended" when I bring the Android out of sleep to begin the motoring trip.

Once the music has been selected and commenced to playing, the music app can be retired to background and continues to play.

I can open Google Maps and create my "destination" -- easily done by voice command. Press "Start" on the Google Maps display. I can retire the Google Maps app to background, and the Google girl will still continue giving me directions.

So for the most part, I can have all these worlds, and only need the backup cam view-display on the Android.

For a future project, I'll investigate hooking up a Bluetooth device meant for the OBD-II display of engine rpms, date, time, speed and other real-time data while the car is running. I should only need to find the OBD-II plug dangling behind the dashboard.

Getting behind the dashboard of a Trooper is unpleasantly tedious, but I know those plugs and wires are dangling there -- I can feel them.

 

[herm0016]

i just use a cheap, ebay elm27 bluetooth adaptor and the app torque. works well. i have been using it for 5 or 6 years. very helpful when you work on your own stuff.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Oh! At first, I thought you were touting some better device for porting music to the OEM receiver, compared to my Aluratek cassette and my MP3-player/FM-Transmitter device. "What IS this Elm 27 thing?" I asked. My answer came with an entire menu of OBD-II reader devices on Amazon.

For this, I really, really, really want to thank you. This will make it easy to extend my Trooper-retrofit project to the limit! To the limit, I say!

PS Wow! I just need to find the second of the two OBD plugs -- the one with the trapezoidal shape. The other plug looks more like a 4-wire USB "Molex" plug or RS232 serial plug. The Elm 327 costs about $12!!!! I better "get right on it!" But I suppose they'll still be available for purchase at those or similar prices, when I turn my attention to those plugs . . . whenever . . .

Now -- I'm looking more closely at this as to how it fits with my overall plan. I can see now a perfect situation wherein I might want to get my music with the MP3 player ported through its FM-transmitter, as opposed to the Bluetooth Aluratek.

I think I can only have one Bluetooth device at a time connected to my Android. Android keeps a list of previously paired devices, so I can switch between them, but this is an extra step. I can at least look at the Google Maps map display, view the rear backkup cam display or the rear-cam Android display used as "dash-cam". I can listen to the MP3 player when the Elm 327 Bluetooth is connected to the Android. Or, to be more precise, when the Android is connected to the Elm 327.

Not "very nice!" but "nice enough!"

 

[mindless1]

It could take a few days before I digest your Great Wall Of Text [lol ] but skipping ahead, it is likely that your '95 Trooper only supported OBD1, not 2 so you can't use those ELM327/clone based scan tools, and even if you have OBD2, it'll be a lottery whether you can use the cheapest ones on Amazon (which are cheaper still on ebay if you have a month to wait for shipping) because although most if not all seem to state something like "supports all OBD2 '96 or newer", there are many of those which don't support the oldest OBD2 protocols, instead only supporting canbus.

In some cases they have even changed the design, omitting internal SMD components so you can only trust reviews of compatibility with vehicles using the same protocol if they are fairly recent, though if you buy from Amazon and it's fulfilled by Amazon, return for refund should be easier, and if it's a really cheap one on ebay they "might" just let you keep it and issue a refund without returning it, if it doesn't work, but if you don't have the OBD2 connector near the steering column or in that vicinity under the dash, it's not likely that it has OBD2.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It could take a few days before I digest your Great Wall Of Text [lol ] but skipping ahead, it is likely that your '95 Trooper only supported OBD1, not 2 so you can't use those ELM327/clone based scan tools, and even if you have OBD2, it'll be a lottery whether you can use the cheapest ones on Amazon (which are cheaper still on ebay if you have a month to wait for shipping) because although most if not all seem to state something like "supports all OBD2 '96 or newer", there are many of those which don't support the oldest OBD2 protocols, instead only supporting canbus.

In some cases they have even changed the design, omitting internal compounds so you can only trust reviews of compatibility with vehicles using the same protocol if they are fairly recent, though if you buy from Amazon and it's fulfilled by Amazon, return for refund should be easier, and if it's a really cheap one on ebay they "might" just let you keep it and issue a refund without returning it, if it doesn't work, but if you don't have the OBD2 connector near the steering column or in that vicinity under the dash, it's not likely that it has OBD2.

Thank you, Mindless1, for most excellent input. By coincidence (we're probably all sitting at our PCs or laptops), I was just inspecting the Trooper 95 Factory Shop Manual.

I had gathered sketchy intelligence months ago from various sources, which seemed to indicate that the 95 Trooper was "OBD-II-compliant", or that Isuzu attempted to meet that 1996 compliancy standard with its forward-looking 95 Trooper.

Then, elsewhere, I saw a suggestion that some vehicles had OBD-I (3-pin, white Molex) data connectors with additional OBD-II ("trapezoidal") plugs.

Nowhere in the Factory Manual is there any mention of anything other than the 3-pin OBD-I connector. In some tests, one has to jumper two of the pins or wires. But no indication that an "OBD-II" connector is under the dashboard -- where it would be if it actually existed. You would think that if OBD-II existed for the 95 Trooper, it would be shown and mentioned in the Shop Manual.

I've been able to see the three-pin connector and remember I said that behind-the-dash work on the Trooper is a pain in the ass. The other plugs I can feel with my hands are probably OEM fog-light or Option seat-warmer (which I don't have). I'll just have to get under there with a high-powered LED light and a mirror to get a better idea of what dangling plugs there are and what they look like.

 

[herm0016]

AH damn. i forgot the cutoff was 96.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

AH damn. i forgot the cutoff was 96.

I did buy a diagnostic OBD-II code reader -- the Actron CP9670. And when I bought it, there was a compatibility chart that indicated it would work with a 95 Trooper.

Isuzu chose not to put certain things in the shop manual (the SHOP MANUAL for Chrissake!) The Shop manual tells you that there is an orange-with-blue-stripe wire going from the interior fuse box (drivers side) to the Anti-Theft Controller, running off the ACC load plate and fused with a 10 Amp fuse. I remember now what I did when I saw my red Anti-Theft switch liight flashing when it should've been either on or off -- I yanked out the fuse specified in the factory manual. But what came out of there was a 20Amp fuse and some bogus clips holding it in. I pulled the fuse-boxx from its mounting and what did I find? No orange/blue-stripe wire. No load plate hardware for that particular fuse. The yellow fuse that came out was "just for show". It's their "proprietary OEM Anti-Theft System", see? That's why I can't find anyone willing to try and fix it. I suspect that I just have a sprung tamper-switch on the back door, from having my window shattered from within the car.

So all that prolix stuff being said, I entertain the possibility that the factory shop manual may not mention a trapezoidal-shaped, OBD--II plug under the dashboard. Instead, they mention only the 3-pin OBD-1 data connector.

So I'll have to resolve this by either finding that plug, or concluding that it doesn't exist. As a ball in the air, I can't juggle that extra one at the moment, but sure would like to move forward with the hopes that I can port running engine data to my Android tablet.

BUT BACK TO THE MAIN TOPIC.

As I said, I decided to buy a single backup camera, rather than a dash/backup two-camera kit (dual-channel). I'd been looking at maybe five or six units. For certain features and the promise of sufficient accumulation of customer reviews, I chose this:

Rohent HD Wi-Fi Digital backup camera

Some of those cameras looked so small and light, I figured you could use flex-seal tape to mount it to either the exterior or interior of an SUV back door.

This Rohent job weighs 8 oz and feels like a paperweight. I'm trying to figure out how to securely mount it so it's dead-center on the car's center line -- front to rear. Near the door, there is a switched cargo-bay light that comes on when the door is open -- that's above the door. Affixed to the top of the door frame is a "light-bar" style stop-light assembly, with perhaps 8 or 10 tiny bulbs, black plastic housing, no indication as to how it comes off (not yet). Ideally, the 8 oz Rohent needs metal hardware mounting with screws. Maybe the cargo-bay courtesy light has a bracket underneath it amenable to "adding something" that can hold the backup camera.

I'm just announcing that this is a problem and a hurdle I need to surmount. There MUST be a way to mount this camera to my satisfaction. . . . There MUST . . .

 

[herm0016]

you could screw it to a magnet and stick it whereever.

a couple of these on that bracket would be dandy i think. switch out the sheetmetal screw for a machine screw and lock nut

Super Power Rare Earth Cup Magnets, 95 LBS Holding Force, 1.26 inch x 0.3 inch Diameter, Industrial Strength Round Base Neodymium Magnets, Countersunk Hole for Home, Kitchen, Workplace, Pack of 8: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Super Power Rare Earth Cup Magnets, 95 LBS Holding Force, 1.26 inch x 0.3 inch Diameter, Industrial Strength Round Base Neodymium Magnets, Countersunk Hole for Home, Kitchen, Workplace, Pack of 8: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

 

[BonzaiDuck]

you could screw it to a magnet and stick it whereever.

a couple of these on that bracket would be dandy i think. switch out the sheetmetal screw for a machine screw and lock nut

Super Power Rare Earth Cup Magnets, 95 LBS Holding Force, 1.26 inch x 0.3 inch Diameter, Industrial Strength Round Base Neodymium Magnets, Countersunk Hole for Home, Kitchen, Workplace, Pack of 8: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Super Power Rare Earth Cup Magnets, 95 LBS Holding Force, 1.26 inch x 0.3 inch Diameter, Industrial Strength Round Base Neodymium Magnets, Countersunk Hole for Home, Kitchen, Workplace, Pack of 8: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Don't you or anyone else here give up on helping me solve this problem!

The difficulty with the magnets arises because there are no metal surfaces exposed near the (only) best mounting location. I was just out in the garage with the Trooper rear doors open. I've had this SUV for 18 years, and only now discovered that there is no interior door latch handle to get out from the inside! I got into the cargo bay to see how the metal door frame matches up with OEM weather-stripping, because it will likely be possible to drill two holes in the top door frame for a 1/16"-thick metal bracket or strip. I had to crawl forward and let myself out of the car from the back seat -- it's a 4-door Trooper.

I'm going to the shop manual to research the main rear-door construction before I start probing around with an electric drill. I'll post a diagram and any info.

Troopers going back to 1987 all had similar rear-door designs. There are two doors: the largest on the left hinged to the driver-side frame which carries the spare tire, and a smaller-door about 1/2 the width of the larger one and hinged on the passenger side. One seldom opens the small door, except when the cargo bay needs to be loaded with bulky items like a washing machine or large box.

Mounting the camera dead center puts it right below the interior courtesy light mounted on the vinyl interior panels. This also coincides with the rear stop-light bar, which is appropriately mounted farthest from the door hinges to center it.

I can see some possibilities. If one could glue a foam-art-board assembly -- a box -- to the bottom of this stop-light bar, it could be made strong enough to hold the camera -- bolted to the interior of the box. For that, one could use nylon screws and nuts, or something like nylon/plastic body-panel retaining clips.

Another possibility: the very top of the door fram (metal) above the window mates up with weatherstripping on the interior side. Two half-inch-wide metal brackets might be installed there with sheet-metal screws, but they would have to be a neat and precision fit to avoid causing the weatherstripping to leak. (Of course, this is So-Cal and one seldom worries about rain sufficient to make that happen, but we aim for perfection. There must be no leaks.)

Like I said, I'll post door diagrams from the factory shop manual after I've had a look.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

THE LANDSCAPE: DIAGRAMS OF TAILGATE AND ITS HIGH-MOUNT STOP-LIGHT​

OK. I NEED to solve the problem of mounting this backup camera -- shown through an Amazon link in an earlier post #7. It weighs 8 ounces, so less promise of using Flex-Seal product to merely glue it to the rear glass window. It must be mounted dead-center to the Trooper's rear, which means it is close to the right side of the main tailgate.

As for the magnet solution someone posted, there is no exposed metal surface where it would fit. Oh -- I could probably cut a 1.5" circle out of my headliner close to the tailgate, and stick the magnet on the inner side of the car's roof. Shuffle that option down to "less-preferred". And frankly, anything mounted above the tailgate on an interior surface other than the tailgate itself will be an encumbrance. I would bump into the camera during a trip to Home Depot while loading bulky objects into the cargo bay.

The top door frame can be seen in the shop-manual diagram:


The upper edge of the frame, closest to the number "1", has about a 3/4" vertical edge where two holes could be drilled to affix two metal brackets of 1/16"x1/2"x (approx.)4" each. Hopefully, these metal straps could be bent to angle down over the high-mount stop-light bar (which you can see on the left of the door from its inside). In all of these options, the single power-cable for the camera can probably be routed through the wiring tube shown on the lower right of the door in the diagram.

Another option might involve removing the high-mount stop-light, shown here in greater detail (more text follows the JPG):



The stop-light has three "body-clip" mounts. Maybe something (like foam art-board) can be sandwiched between the stop-light and the door frame. Perhaps one of those clips can be pushed through the art-board to secure it before reinstalling the stop-light. Further, perhaps the "insert" could be made of sheet-metal -- aluminum -- or a piece of Lexan. Then, howsoever the "tab" for securing a camera assembly is mounted or whatever material used, I can imagine a foam-art-board box held in place by nylon screws and nuts, and the camera "has a home".

There is another possibility. I could make a laminated long rectangle of three identically shaped art-board rectangles -- 3/4" deep -- and use either Hold-the-Foam art-board glue (which bonds well with most plastics), or something like Flex-Seal Glue to glue this strip to the bottom of the high-mount stop-light. From there, a little Japanese joinery would add a box (laminated two-piece panels), with the camera again added with nylon screws and nuts so it fits close to the window.

This is my experienced judgment concerning the use of these glues and the materials (art-board or "foam-core" and black automotive plastic). Hold The Foam makes a pretty solid bond. I think I would try it before fiddling around with either Flex-Seal Glue or Pit-Crew Automotive Adhesive (which -- is GOOD STUFF! I use it in building computers!)

OK, so there's some information. I'm looking for second-opinions, new ideas, comments -- anything from somebody else that might help or further cast light on the problem and a promising solution.

ONE MORE THING. I tested the backup camera today with the cigar-lighter cable the manufacturer enclosed just for that purpose -- in advance of using the regular wiring they enclosed for soldering to my fuse-box extension (mentioned in another thread). Wiring will be easy for this camera project.

I had to download an Android Q-code scanner app so I could copy and store the little square code icon included in the instruction book. Then, I had to download the camera manufacturer's App and install it. All went well.

After those steps, I had to turn on the camera (the cigar-lighter penis-plug has a red LED button-switch on it, then reset my Android Wi-Fi to recognize a network different than that of my household network and router.

The software is, as we would call it in the business and gov world, "robust". It does everything it was designed to do, and it does everything you would want it to do for a backup camera -- flipping the image, turning the red-yellow-green guidelines on and off, and anything else except getting me a frosty root-beer from the garage refrigerator. The camera image consumes and uses the entire tablet screen, just like my network television working through a web browser.

Very nice. WE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY HAVE TO FIGURE A WAY TO MOUNT THIS CAMERA ON THE UPPER REAR TAILGATE DOOR. Referring to the diagrams, there are four clips labeled "upper face" for the high-mount stop-light, and the camera -- for dead center of the Trooper's rear -- will be mounted between the 2nd and 3rd clips.

Well -- I look forward to remarks. This cannot be a half-assed job. It's a $100 camera, and everything else about my Trooper project is focused toward polished, well-conceived perfection. That's why I installed a fuse-box extension. That's why my Android tablet -- temporarily secure to the dashboard with the OHLPRO device -- is going to look like part of the dashboard when I'm finished. Things like the USB charging cable for the tablet will be routed and secured with dabs of Pit-Crew -- nothing will be dangling over the dashboard.

Anyway -- hope to get some feedback from Y'All!!! And Now -- I'm going back to the garage and get me that root-beer . . . .

 

[BonzaiDuck]

THIS IS GOING TO BE SIMPLE -- LET'S FORGET "INTERIOR MOUNT"

Well, I see nobody got back to this . It's only been a day or so.

But I started looking for an alternative camera. Something that is light, inexpensive and with good software and performance. I was looking at this one -- a "Podofo":

Podofo Wi-Fi backup camera

The criticisms gather mostly around the Wi-Fi setup, or the availability of software, and customer photos show how light the camera is and how it can be mounted on interior vinyl.

But then, I reminded myself that I'd bought the Rohent camera because it had certain features. I even wanted it to meet IP69 standards for being waterproof, but nothing needs to be waterproof if mounted in the car's interior. The Rohent -- for its weight -- seems to be built for sturdy attachment to an RV or Truck. it feels like it could just as easily be a fog-light, like my RIGID units on the Trooper's grille guard.

I didn't want the camera mounted in a "high-profile" place, vaguely imagining a possibility of theft or vandalism, but I suppose I was more driven simply by aesthetic concerns.

It dawns on me that the Trooper is a "bad-ass SUV". I originally bought it to serve in rugged four-wheelin' excursions in wildlife refuges and national forests. So seeing how some people with RV's and pickup trucks mounted their cameras, I can do just as well.

The tailgate rear sits below an "air-deflector" panel that is part of the body roof.



I can just drill two holes in the center of the air-deflector along its lower edge, treat them with a rust-protector, silicon sealant or rubber grommet, and bolt on the camera bracket with machine screws, nuts and lock washers. In fact, I could even follow HERM0016's suggestion and use those little round magnets, but they might make theft easier. Maybe I'll buy some and see how strong they are. I could certainly paint the magnets with some of the blue-pearl metallic touch-up paint I have from PaintScratch. If they are strong enough, nobody would think to try prying them off with a crow-bar -- IF -- IF that's what it would take. They'd simply look like welded reinforcements on the air-deflector put there for a camera or work-light on purpose.

With this, the Rohent power-cable doesn't even need to cross over the OEM weatherstripping. I can just run the wire down to the wiring harness that goes into the door near the hinges. Better yet, I can get an extension for the stubby little antenna-- perhaps a length of the right sized coax cable -- run it along with the power cable into the interior so the stubby antenna is inside the vehicle offering possibly an even better and reliable signal.

Yup! I think I'm going to knock out this part of my project before today's end! Easy-peeasy. Well -- it depends on how quickly those magnets arrive, so I can try them. OK -- give it a week, with a few hours of actual hands-on work.

 

[herm0016]

looks like a good plan. i would not mess with the antenna. adding a random length of coax could mess up the signal. it has to be a certain multiple of wavelengths and there are a lot of other considerations when dealing with antennas.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

looks like a good plan. i would not mess with the antenna. adding a random length of coax could mess up the signal. it has to be a certain multiple of wavelengths and there are a lot of other considerations when dealing with antennas.

Hmmm . . . . didn't know that, and didn't consider it. Thanks. I suppose it would be a lot of trouble to have a proper assessment or calculation done to choose the right length. What would you know about getting something like that done? Because -- otherwise, it will be the original antenna. Even so, I think I can get a swivel base attachment for it. It will only rotate at right-angles to the rear surface of the camera. Of course, that only comes in handy if you want to make the antenna almost invisible from a view of the rear or even sides of the Trooper.

Oh, the days of the CB radios! Some people had BIG antennas! "Breaker, Breaker . . . Come in, Trucker-Man! Ahhhhh . . . . . That's a big Ten Four, buddy!"

And think of it. If you don't know the cell-phone number of the big rig driving next to you, you still need a CB radio in the 21st century. But there's a limit to all this, as I remember how I dressed up my JC Higgins touring bike when I was 13 years old -- not long before I got rid of it. There's the KISS principle, and there's common sense.

HERM0016 (or anyone looking in) -- Here's a minor factor I want to clarify with or without help (but help is good) -- before I go forward and pull out the old Makita drill. [ And I know about this -- I need to use a punch to prime the drill bit, or this could result in quick disaster).

The REAR AIR DEFLECTOR shown as "2." in the shop-manual diagram is not just a single piece of sheet metal. It is two such panels welded together and separated by less than about 1/4" -- or a total thickness in the vicinity of 3/8" to 1/2". I'm trying to imagine how this affects a choice to use ~1/4" machine screws and nuts. Of course -- the length. But does it sound like a valid approach for the situation? The metal is thick enough and stiff enough.

I'll try both approaches -- with the magnets and without. But no sense in hurrying the job without looking at all the angles. . . .

 

[herm0016]

you may want to drill the first hole the size for the bolt, and the second on the back, if you can manage the size of the washer, or a little tube called a standoff or spacer to slide into, thus you do not crush the feature, and you are "clamping" to just one side of the sheet metal.

i am a licensed ham radio operator. my station is KD8DYO. Have not been active in a while, but try to keep it up. used to run do coms for search and rescue and city functions like parades and emergencies and check points for rally races.

 

[NutBucket]

Eh, it's FM those issues are pretty much irrelevant.

 

[mindless1]

I don't get it. Drill holes, use screws. If the holes are in metal, lather up the holes and contact area with sensor-safe (non-acid cure) RTV adhesive. It's not like this is a new car that would depreciate much in value to put holes in... assuming you're never going to try to sell it anyway and if you did, the camera is (slight) value added rather than detracted this late into the vehicle lifespan, if you do a good job so it doesn't look hackish.

If the area where you're prefer to mount isn't flat at the right angle for best range of view, put a tapered/countoured plastic shim under it to make up the difference. You can get scrap blocks of just about any plastic you want on ebay ifyou don't have anything suitable, but I would pick one that is fairly hard so it is easier to machine with common woodworking tools, and that lends itself to taking paint too if it needs painted, OR carve out of a wood form, then fiberglass, sand, and paint. You can also make a mold or form and use just a cast epoxy like JBWeld, even better with fiberglass in it, which will also take paint after sanded.

The cool kids would just 3D print it instead.
That's if you even need anything. The question is where would it best be mounted for its function then how to integrate it there. Take a picture from behind, and at a sharp angle to the rear so we can see contour of the area.

You might even be able to drill a larger hole in the sheetmetal or bumper for the lens and the rest of the camera body is behind the sheetmetal.

Rear air deflector or anywhere glass or above seems too high to me, considering that automakers don't typically place them that high and must have done some usability testing to determine that lower works better.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I don't get it. Drill holes, use screws. If the holes are in metal, lather up the holes and contact area with sensor-safe (non-acid cure) RTV adhesive. It's not like this is a new car that would depreciate much in value to put holes in... assuming you're never going to try to sell it anyway and if you did, the camera is (slight) value added rather than detracted this late into the vehicle lifespan, if you do a good job so it doesn't look hackish.

If the area where you're prefer to mount isn't flat at the right angle for best range of view, put a tapered/countoured plastic shim under it to make up the difference. You can get scrap blocks of just about any plastic you want on ebay ifyou don't have anything suitable, but I would pick one that is fairly hard so it is easier to machine with common woodworking tools, and that lends itself to taking paint too if it needs painted, OR carve out of a wood form, then fiberglass, sand, and paint. You can also make a mold or form and use just a cast epoxy like JBWeld, even better with fiberglass in it, which will also take paint after sanded.

The cool kids would just 3D print it instead.
That's if you even need anything. The question is where would it best be mounted for its function then how to integrate it there. Take a picture from behind, and at a sharp angle to the rear so we can see contour of the area.

You might even be able to drill a larger hole in the sheetmetal or bumper for the lens and the rest of the camera body is behind the sheetmetal.

Rear air deflector or anywhere glass or above seems too high to me, considering that automakers don't typically place them that high and must have done some usability testing to determine that lower works better.

All good advice and comment from you. Very good.

The air deflector has a slight curvature along that edge -- a reason I wasn't sure that magnets would be the best. Other input is parallel to yours about the two-layer sheet metal with space between the panels -- nothing to worry about for screws, but I'm fussy about the paint on that car. The sheet metal on the Trooper body is very resistant to corrosion. It surprised me while I was dressing a crease in the corner of the rear quarter-panel from a minor fender-bender -- I'd let it go untouched for maybe 15 years before I finally fixed it.

The only concern I would have about magnets not mated to a flat surface: it could fall off and damage a window that I replaced in 2018 -- part of an unfolding saga of an Anti-Theft System needing a tamper-switch reset and requiring the entire back interior door panel to be removed. I like that new window. I don't want to see a scratch on it.

then again, the camera would only fall when I open the door. Better to worry a bit than not.

For the slight curvature in the metal, you have a lot of ideas, but I think all it really needs is a homemade grommet of sponge rubber or foam art board that will shape itself to the curvature -- there's not much more one can do. The foam can be enameled. Just as well use Hold The Foam to seal the edge, rather than RTV or what you mentioned.

YES! I'm all set for this! RP-SMA 9dBi RG174 extension cable coming Monday. As long as the signal at least remains the same for adding the extension, it will be much closer to the Android, inside the car, and no antenna sticking up above the air-deflector panel.

ONe more thing -- you asked about pictures of the car's rear and side, to get a better Idea of what I meant in my logic about camera placement. I'll come back and re-post it, but there are photos in my thread about my MP3 Player project with the Trooper, by way of introduction and my personal history with it in the first post.

But it's simple. The front rear-view mirror sits about three inches below the roof of the car. The air-deflector as shown in the diagram at the rear of the car is less than 2 inches above the roof, and the mounting position I have in mind puts the camera about 2 or 3 inches above the tailgate window. Otherwise, there can't be any "in-between" because of the spare tire carried on the tailgate door.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Mindless1 and Herm0016:

I think I've figured out how to do this, with a fallback option to drill the two holes through the Air Deflector panel.

The surface that will hold the camera bracket seems almost perfectly flat in that location. It is perhaps 20 degrees short of being perfectly vertical.

I've got two, 1.2-inch diameter 100lb magnets like these:

MUTUACTOR 2Pack Strong Magnetic Round Base Pot 100lb(45kg) with Long Male Thread Stud #M8 Neodymium Magnet Mounting for Lighting, Bracket

I'm guessing magnets like these can be moved by sliding them sideways -- off the metal surface. So? I'll put a few drops of either Flex-Seal Glue, Pit-Crew Adhesive or RTV Silicone Adhesive on the bottom of each one. If they are strong enough, you could only remove them by prying them off, with minor damage to the painted surface. Paint damage like that can be repaired with a half-hour's work of masking, sanding, priming and application o touch-up "blue-pearl-metallic" and then clear. And -- no holes or damage to the sheet-metal.

If the magnets don't prove strong enough for some reason, then I'll go forward with the spring-loaded punch and successively larger drill bits (to something => 1/4" dia.), drill the holes carefully, mount the camera with the screws and nuts -- and be done with it.

I can see now that I might have been more careful with my Amazon order for magnets. These have an M8 screw-size diameter -- slightly over a 1/4". I'll need to prep the camera bracket with a rat-tail file to widen the quarter-inch screw slots. Probably not a lot of trouble, but at that point, I couldn't send the camera kit back for refund.

UPDATE AND REVELATIONS:

First, here's a photo of a 95 Trooper LS tailgate, showing the Air Deflector Panel above the door:



I went to the garage an hour ago to take some measurements and decide where to drill holes -- among other things. The perfect place to drill holes has a metal thickness of 1/4", and the screws I have in my possession are ample to thread the nuts and secure them.

The magnets won't arrive until next week. Of course, I could just be in a hurry, tell myself "forget the magnets" and start drilling.

Then -- it hit me.

I can secure the camera in the chosen spot without drilling holes, without waiting for magnets, drive around with the camera mounted, and get a sense of what it all looks like.

With . . . . . . WIRE TIES. You can make a wire-tie strap by linking and locking them together, so a strap made of two wire ties will fit vertically around the curved air-deflector panel -- from its front edge and around the back edge and camera placement. You can tighten those straps until there is no play in the strap holding the camera. Further, I can add a piece of foam-core (art-board) to resolve any lack of contact between the camera bracket and the curved deflector panel (as shown in the picture. The camera will sit below the upper surface of the panel, so there will be no camera silhouette visible above the roof line of the Trooper. Best of all -- you cannot . . . freaking . . . see ---- the wire ties from any angle other than looking straight down on the roof of the Trooper. They are simply not visible, once the camera is installed with them.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Wider angle at distance, cluttered with my garage door and its reflection. You can see the vinyl spare-tire cover on my Trooper, which I have restored to look and feel as good as new -- even for the silver lettering "Isuzu Trooper":



Some close-ups:








So . . . . . . There you are. I'm sure the nylon wire-ties will hold up a fairly long time. If the paper-backed foam-core pieces aren't primered and painted, wet weather will affect their durability. I can't say what will happen if the foam-core shrinks, but I don't think the nylon will stretch. In any event -- the damn camera is not getting close to that new rear window, no matter what happens.

It's "ON THERE".

 

[BonzaiDuck]

THE CONTINUING SAGA . . .

I made an even closer inspection of the Air Deflection Panel. As I said, it is basically two pieces of sheet metal welded together -- a seam around the edge of the panel.

Unfortunately, the sheet-metal on the underside of the Air Deflection Panel is not regular and flat, and -- worse -- the irregularity, a small hump, is dead center to where I want to mount that bracket.

This, to me, means that drilling holes for machine screws and nuts will not work there.

While I look for other possibilities to mount the camera either on the tailgate door or on this Air Deflection Panel, the only two options are the magnets or the wire ties.

I'm skeptical about the magnets, because the mounting area under current consideration is not a perfectly flat surface.

I suppose I'll need to wait until the magnets from Amazon arrive.

Another possibility is to have the bracket welded to that position on the Air Deflection Panel. Who would I contact about having a small job like that done? Obviously, it would mean the area would need new primer and paint, but I can do that .. . . . Even having the bracket on that panel without the camera would not seriously detract from keeping the vehicle in its pristine, original condition.

Any thoughts?

I don't give up very easily on what some would call "trivial pursuits" . . .

 

[Midwayman]

It looks like it comes off. Take it to the bench, grind the bump, bondo flat and prime. Drill your holes and use nuts and bolts as planned.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It looks like it comes off. Take it to the bench, grind the bump, bondo flat and prime. Drill your holes and use nuts and bolts as planned.

That's a good point. I really should look more closely at the shop manual diagram. If there are too many steps involved, I can first wait for the magnets, and then explore another possibility.

The "bump" on the underside of the two-sheet welded panel is 2.5" wide. This causes difficulty for the U-shaped default bracket attached to the camera when I received it.

The kit comes with an alternate pair of bracket-arms -- separate pieces. They have an "L" shape, with the fittings for the camera on the long end. The short ends can be turned around so the distance between the holes straddles the bump. In other words, the holes for the screws can be farther apart -- maybe avoiding the panel irregularity.

So I may not have to do the body-work you mention, although I'm capable.

On the magnet angle, I've read some customer-reviews on those "Neodymium" magnets with the Q&A's posted for them. Those things are strong magnets! You are warned to wear shop gloves when handling them. A little carelessness and you can pinch your fingers, and once they are accidentally mated up with each other, they're nearly impossible to separate. I may actually give those a try -- secure them to the bracket (or brackets, if for the second option), bolt the camera to the assembly, and very carefully plant them on the panel where I want them. Then I can see if they can be knocked off.

I'll probably put a pillow in a cardboard box, put the box under the camera, and see what happens with that . . .

I'm wondering whether it would be wise to put a tiny blob of Flex-Seal glue on the magnet mating surface before trying that experiment. Whether I do or don't, if the magnets work, then I can install the camera without so much as a hole drilled or any modification in the Air Deflector Panel.

If I drill holes, the two metal sheets are parallel in the spots required for the alternate bracket pieces, but they are about 3/16" apart. I should start with a small bit, even 1/16", drill each metal sheet at a time, and stick some sort of metal plate between the deflection panel and vehicle roof to avoid damage there. Then, work up to 1/4" diameter. The biggest risk is starting the holes with the drill, but usually the spring-loaded punch will leave a dimple that assures the drill bit won't wander initially.

See -- these are the sorts of things to which even the avid hobbyists or car enthusiast don't want to devote too much time. I've got plenty of time. Slow-going helps prevent mistakes. The other thing that helps is patience -- waiting for those items to arrive in the mail rather than just rushing ahead. I've never been good at patience, but I try to improve when I can.

UPDATE ON REMOVAL OF AIR DEFLECTOR

At first glance, it seemed daunting because I initially thought you had to remove interior side panels and speakers. But -- no. Just the Rear Roof Trim Cover -- a piece of interior vinyl. It may be that I also need to remove the luggage illumination light -- need to look again.

The only problem there is the age of the parts. Vinyl and nylon parts like retaining washers and so forth get brittle with age. I always get a little nervous when prying things apart. Same problem I anticipated with the High Mount Stop Light mentioned earlier. But -- we shall see. We may not need to do this, but at least I know what we need to do.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

OK -- I know -- too many sequential posts of my own. And they are TLTR posts. Even so, this is a seemingly trivial project on an old car that needs to be done with care and precision.

This is Saturday, August 8. I was going to drill holes today, thinking I'd just abjure the idea of using the magnets.

But I called my friend the retired Navy electronics technician in Virginia this morning, and asked him what he knew about Neodymium magnets. He knows a lot.

He told me that once those things are mated to the vehicle sheet metal, it will be troublesome to get them off. He suggested that his wife couldn't do it, and she is considerably more healthy than he is, as they are both my age.

He told me that once the magnets mate, if they aren't in position exactly where I want them, they will be troublesome to move, and there might be minor paint damage even if I succeed in adjusting their position.

He says, in anticipation of eventually removing the magnets at some unspecified point in time, removal will likely crack the magnetic material and leave little flakes of it all over the car, causing another cleanup problem. To resolve that problem, he suggests that I cover the exposed surface of the magnet with clear plastic USPS packing tape, so that the movement of any particles breaking apart will be controlled and they can stick to that tape.

I've chosen these magnets: Mutuactor two-pack strong 100lb base pot with long male M8 threaded stud (and nut).

The M8 stud is a hair too big for the holes in the bracket, but I can widen those holes in their center with a rat-tail file. And in the event that the stud interferes with the camera, I can do either of two things: add a washer or two with a lock ring to raise the bracket above the magnet base, or simply use a different pair that I ordered ($10) that have posts with threaded 12-24 holes, less powerful by only 10lbs each, and of slightly smaller diameter. If I don't have 12-24 screws in my collection, I'll make a quick trip to Home Depot. But preparing the bracket for either pair of magnets should not be a problem.

What about placement?

I've got plenty of cardboard panels, and plenty of 1/4" thick foam art board ("foam core") The diameter of the magnet base is almost perfectly the width of the camera's bracket base. So I can cut about six 6" x 3" rectangles of either cardboard or foam, cut rectangles in them the exact size of the bracket base, laminate them together and glue that assembly (temporarily) to the sheet-metal surface where I want to mount the bracket with its magnets. Then, when placing the bracket-magnet assembly, it will only mate on the chosen area, and no difficult adjustment will be required.

What about my concerns of the magnets somehow slipping off? Yesterday, for fun, I chose to use Google Maps to direct my travel to my elderly moms' nursing home. I never would ordinarily take the directed route -- down a residential side street which has the world's worst speed-bumps with the least warnings you would desire. There's no "BUMP" marked on the street in white paint. I have great tires, but when I went over the first two of these speed bumps, I thought it would deflate those tires! I had only replaced my shocks and ball-joints in 2018, and I still thought those speed-bumps took the new parts to their limit!

My friend says those magnets will simply not move under that sort of jolt. So I could expect the mounting to hold up even with a four-wheelin' trip through Goler Wash in the Panamints to see where Charlie Manson took the school bus.

The first choice of magnets arrives tomorrow. On Tuesday morning, I will mount this camera. I may already have the wiring in place, but I need another 3-pin rocker switch for the dashboard with a little camera icon on it. So with anal-retentive determination, I'll have to wait for that switch to arrive until this is all done to my satisfaction.

How about that, huh?!!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

ANOTHER UPDATE -- for any interested parties fascinated by old-car retrofit projects.

I've received magnets.

As I mentioned, my strategy is to use a sort of "stencil" or jig that is 4-inches deep to mount the camera bracket assembly and magnets so they mate perfectly to the chosen spot on the air-deflector panel. I'll glue the jig onto the panel with Flex Seal, and let the glue set. Better yet -- I may be able to secure the jig with 24" "zip" wire-ties, avoiding glue cleanup. Then, mount and connect the camera. I'm waiting for the antenna extension to arrive tomorrow or Friday.

Snaking the wires through the body from the rear to the front and driver's side fuse-box won't be easy, but getting them over the rear wheel-well will be the most troublesome. I should be able to successively remove the rocker panels of the door-sills after that, then solder the wires to the connections I have waiting for them.

Only slightly concerned now, I feel confident for getting the magnets onto the bracket without some mishap causing them to adhere to each other. The threaded shanks of the magnets which fit through the bracket almost seemed too long and capable of interfering with the camera once it is secured to the bracket. I did some measurements today. Adding a single washer between magnet and bracket makes the distance between the magnet and camera a full 2.1cm. The magnet's threaded shank is only 1.85cm, so I think I just need two washers, and it will all be just fine.

This is a lot of trouble to mount a rear-view camera exactly where you want it, but it will be perfect. Wait until you see the trouble I go to in mounting my tablet to the dashboard center vent. It will be a lot more solid and reliable than a suction device, but it will involve much tedium.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, as of today, this thread got 939 hits so far. I'm really psyched about this "little" project, so I continue with my "journal".

The Rohent backup camera has a stubby antenna on it, perhaps departing from aesthetic preference. The antenna has a rubber sheath, which comes off too easily.

So I wanted to add an antenna extension that I can route into the Trooper's interior behind the "Luggage Side Lower Cover" (Shop Manual jargon) -- which is the vinyl interior panel which straddles the rear driver-side wheel well.

Wi-Fi extensions come in RP-SMA and SMA flavors. RP stands for "reverse polarity", and these extension won't fit a backup camera fitting. The backup camera I have has a female fitting for the center coax wire of its own antenna. An RP-SMA cable also has a female hole on the end with the nut which would otherwise fit the camera.

So I did my Amazon and eBay searches for "wi fi antenna extension" or "wi fi backup camera antenna extension", and I read descriptions and reviews, finally selecting this one:
Bingfu Dual-Band . . . Antenna . . . for Vehicle Truck Trailer Backup Camera

Its cable is a little longer than I need, but not by much. I've pulled apart the interior panels and snaked the camera hot and ground wires through the waterproof rubber boot that protects wiring from the body interior to the tailgate door. I had to punch a hole in the boot, but the rubber is tough and very flexible, and I should be able to seal it again with RTV sealant. Even so, with the wires piercing the boot where it meets the body panel of the car, it doesn't look as though water can get in there.

I know little about antennas, and my electrical knowledge is only basic. So I might needlessly worry about the metal antenna making contact with the car's metal body. Since the original Rohent antenna had a rubber boot on it, I decided to find one for the Bingfu antenna.

An 8" length of braided automotive hose makes a perfect and snug fit, with no damage to the antenna. Maybe I can snap a picture before I make the final installation behind the "Luggage Side Lower Cover", and post it.

The power and ground wires for the Rohent are tiny. I needed to extend them, so I ran down to O'Reilly's thinking that 18 guage wire was the proper equivalent. But the Rohent wires are more like 20 or 22 gauge! No problem, I suppose, though. I soldered 12 additional feet of wire, expecting to trim some off when I finish routing it to a five-pin rocker switch with a "camera" logo which also arrived today. That is -- and to be more specific -- the camera hot wire will run to the switch on the dashboard; another pin on the switch will have a wired shovel clip and connect to the fuse-box extension I discussed in my fuse-box extension thread. I'll pop in a 5 amp fuse, unless I can find smaller -- the camera takes a current measured in milli-amps.