I don't get this aspect of RACIAL PROFILING...

[AaronP]

FOXNEWS

ok, I understand what racial profiling is of course, however the fact remains that the guy *WAS* speeding.

You know Chris Rock's comedy skit, "How to avoid getting beat down by the cops."

The #1 way to avoid it is: DON'T BREAK THE F'ING LAW!

 

[Nightfall]

I don't get it either so don't feel alone.

 

[Linflas]

Just to play devil's advocate here I don't think he is claiming the racial profiling was used in regards to the speeding ticket. He is alleging that the reason he was searched rather than just being ticketed and sent on his way was due to racial profiling.

 

[Dually]

That isn't racial profiling. You can't see someones race before you use the radar/laser gun on them. He was speeding and was guilty and they found contraband. I am confused how he could use racial profiling?

 

[JnrX]

I second Linflas's devilish view

 

[PsychoAndy]

...and this is why i never read or watch Fox News...

 

[JnrX]

The guy used the racial profiling defense, because according to the report, 73% of people that were subjected to searches were minorities......Go figure!!!

 

[Linflas]

Just because you are stopped for speeding does not give the officer the right to search your vehicle. That is why they asked permission to search in the first place. The crux of the case will be whether it is believed that the officer wanted to search the vehicle because the guy was nervous when handing his license to him or because he fit the profile of someone likely to be carrying contraband ie. racial profiling. That is why I am saying you need to ignore the speeding aspect, it is the motive behind the subsequent search and arrest that is at issue

 

[Dually]

<< Just because you are stopped for speeding does not give the officer the right to search your vehicle. That is why they asked permission to search in the first place. The crux of the case will be whether it is believed that the officer wanted to search the vehicle because the guy was nervous when handing his license to him or because he fit the profile of someone likely to be carrying contraband ie. racial profiling. That is why I am saying you need to ignore the speeding aspect, it is the motive behind the subsequent search and arrest that is at issue >>



Correct, except the officers had probable cause, he was nervous.

 

[yellowperil]

People in general get nervous, and agitated, when pulled over by a cop. Not a reasonable probable cause.

 

[Linflas]

<< Correct, except the officers had probable cause, he was nervous. >>


Well that is what the officer is saying but if I were the defense attorney I would ask who is not nervous when stopped by the police? If being nervous is probable cause to suspect that you are carrying drugs when stopped for a traffic offense then there would be a lot more requests for vehicle searches I suspect.

 

[Heifetz]

The main point of his defense is to point out wether or not racial profiling had anything to do with the officers searching his car. A lot of people get nervous when they see police officers, and if a person's hand is shaking when he/she shakes the police officer's hand, I certainly don't think that is a good probable cause for a car search.

If nothing else is obvious to the officers, they should not have searched the car.

But beyond this point, the 73% percent statistic of people who have been searched being minority is not very helpful. I think a better statistic to have is the percentage of the minorities searched that result in arrest. I think that statistic will tell us a lot more about how prevalent racial profiling really is. But I doubt we'll ever get anything like that.


Heifetz

 

[StormRider]

People in general get nervous, and agitated, when pulled over by a cop. Not a reasonable probable cause.

When I got pulled over for going through a red light, I was apologetic. I knew I did wrong and I was caught. I felt disappointed in myself -- I learned my lesson. I was not nervous and agitated. Anybody who gets agitated and verbally abusive when stopped by a policeman is just begging for more trouble.

 

[AaronP]

ya know, I'm all for a tough criminal justice system, and locking guys up for hard time, but 25 years seems a little stiff for this guy's drug posession with intent to sell. Unless he's a repeat offender.

 

[batgeek]

well, i think cops have it hard enough as it is. they have rules to follow while criminals don't have any rules to follow....thats not very fair for the cops eh?

and for that 73% of people searched were minorities....i'm willing to bet that at least 80% of people that commit crimes are minoities also. i'm not bashing here, i'm a minority(non-caucasian) myself. i used to be a thug, but have since found it easier to live my life within the rules

 

[Dually]

At this point I would need more info on the case before I could say for sure who was in the wrong or right. Racial Profiling is a big problem and I take it seriously and that means not using it as an issue then it isn't. Being nervous is a reason for probable cause actually whether you like it or not. However there are usually other reasons they take into account. Life how he allready broke the law speeding, of course lots of people do and we don't know how much he was speeding. If he was 5mph or less over then I would consider the officers stopping him at all racial profing.

 

[PG]

This guy's hand was shaking when he handed over his licence. Do any of you get that nervous? I might get nervous, but I wouldn't be shaking.

Come on, the police have a very hard job, and they did the right thing in this case. They got a dealer and his drugs off the streets, even though I bet it's only temporary.

The loser is using racial profiling as a lame attempt to save his ass. It's no different than a child making up a story to get out of trouble. Don't fall for it.

 

[yellowperil]

<<
When I got pulled over for going through a red light, I was apologetic. I knew I did wrong and I was caught. I felt disappointed in myself -- I learned my lesson. I was not nervous and agitated. Anybody who gets agitated and verbally abusive when stopped by a policeman is just begging for more trouble. >>



Yes, but the point is that many people do get nervous and agitated, and regardless of whether some people don't, a cop shouldn't take a shaky hand as reason that the driver is smuggling something. The article does not say whether Payton became verbally abusive either.

 

[JnrX]

I bet if white ppl were searched/stopped as much as minorities are, you wouldn't come to the conclusion that 80% of ppl that commit crimes are minorities. People of all races break the law, but a certain section is singled out and targeted more often than not. And that is ths sad part of it.

 

[Linflas]

<< When I got pulled over for going through a red light, I was apologetic. I knew I did wrong and I was caught. I felt disappointed in myself -- I learned my lesson. I was not nervous and agitated. Anybody who gets agitated and verbally abusive when stopped by a policeman is just begging for more trouble. >>


From the Fox News Link:
Bethune testified that Payton's hands shook when he handed the officer his driver's license.
Nothing in that statement about being agitated or verbally abusive. According to that the guy was nervous and I would wager that over 50% of the general population is nervous when pulled over for a traffic offense. In fact over 50% of the police are nervous when they pull you over for traffic offense because they do not know what they are dealing with at first. All I am saying here is that if I was the guys attorney I would definitely go for this as a defense tactic because of the heightened awareness of racial profiling coupled with the fact that the New Jersey State Police were targets of investigations regarding this exact thing.

 

[spidey07]

if it looks like a drug dealer, walks like a drug deal and breaks the law like a drug dealer ----

GUESS WHAT! it is probably a drug dealer. probable cause for the search in a nut shell. Sure this is profiling but has nothing whatsoever to do with race and everthing to do with appearance and attitude. &quot;profiling&quot; is part of a policemans job. He is there to serve and protect.

Quite breakin the damn law and maybe you won't get pulled over dummy!

racial profiling, what an oxymoron.

 

[warcleric]

Well he HAD drugs....that is probable cause enough for me.....let people sue that have been searched and nothing found....not the scum that get caught and are looking for an easy way out.

 

[Doboji]

Just a question maybe I read this wrong... but didnt he agree to the search?... If he had declined to consent... could they have still searched his car legally?

I mean what if I have some gay porn or something in the back and I dont want the police seeing it... don't I have the right to that privacy...(I DONNOT WATCH GAY PORN BTW) especially if the only probable cause is shaking hands?... I mean hell my hands shake every time I get pulled over... I'm embarrased chastized and nervous...

-Max

 

[StormRider]

The article does not say whether Payton became verbally abusive either.

You're right. I did not read the article when I wrote that -- I was speaking in general.

Yes, but the point is that many people do get nervous and agitated, and regardless of whether some people don't, a cop shouldn't take a shaky hand as reason that the driver is smuggling something.

I think it is reasonable evidence. If we disallow this, we will basically be tying the hands of officers to use their intuition and experience to prevent crimes.

What happens if a shakey hand is an unusual reaction? Maybe from his experience it's very rare for a man to have shaky hands and that set off an alarm inside the policeman's head?

 

[JnrX]

Please spare me the &quot;walks like a drug dealer, he's a drug dealer&quot; BS. The guy gets 25 years for having drugs in his car, but a policeman that kills an unarmed man gets 5 years probation and a desk job, and you're telling him he shouldn't use whatever defence he has available?

The cold hard fact is everything boils down to RACE.