i don't get it (ati driver myths)

[pocketExistentialist]

I've had a 9700 AIW Pro for about a month and a half now. I was building a new system to include it, and the only thing I did was of course a fresh install of windows, DX9, and Catalyst 3 drivers. No tweaking. I have played the following games on it:

Age of Wonders II
Battle Realms
Battlefield 1942
Half-Life / Counterstrike
Heroes of Might and Magic IV
Mafia
Morrowind
No One Lives Forever 2
Nox
Soldier of Fortune II
Jedi Knight II
Unreal Tournament 2003
Warcraft III

And I have NEVER, EVER had a single graphics bug, glitch, or crash. I didn't perform a pagan ritual to the silicon gods, I did nothing special, and it's never given me any problems. I've been running it in a P4 system. So I guess my point is, why do people continue to complain about drivers? It seems like the issue is rather nonexistent... I bring this up because every time there's an ATi vs. Nvidia thread, people bitch about ATi drivers, and since the GF-FX just came out, there seems to be an Nvidia bashing thread of epic proportions.

 

[BFG10K]

So I guess my point is, why do people continue to complain about drivers?

Because they play games that are not on your list. ATi's drivers are excellent but they do have issues on occasion.

 

[nord1899]

I can attest to poor drivers. 2 years ago, I had the AIW Radeon 32 (first gen radeon). Playing Rainbow 6 would cause all sorts of weird graphical screw ups. No drivers at the time worked.

So Ati did have driver problems. Do they still have them today? Most likely not.

 

[tbates757]

Originally posted by: nord1899
I can attest to poor drivers. 2 years ago, I had the AIW Radeon 32 (first gen radeon). Playing Rainbow 6 would cause all sorts of weird graphical screw ups. No drivers at the time worked.

So Ati did have driver problems. Do they still have them today? Most likely not.

"Johnny got C's and D's during his 7th grade year, but from 9th grade to the present he has really buckled down and gotten all A's." Should we still consider Johnny an average/below average student? I think the same applies to ATi.

 

[Duvie]

Dont come in here and talk about an AIW card and say games work....Go over to www.rage3d.com and you will see the issue is with a lot of the mmc features...

1) TV tuner works?? Looks good quality...
2) How does the Pause TV sound?? Any echoing or other sound problems??
3) Does the DVD player stutter??
4) ARe you capturing without any bugs in all the available codecs???
5) How does TV-out work and look???

These are issues with AIW cards and drivers...NOT GAMES!!!


It is not a myth. I am a many times ATI owner and I can attest there are mnay bugs even in the most current sets of drivers. I however know that it is not all ati's fault as there are conflicts in software and hardware compatabilities with a lot of the issues.

On the other hand the terrible install and update procedure is over the top. I know I know about the program that cleans it up for you but you would think somebody could design drivers that can update existing files and remove others without hosing the whole thing. I just reformat now instead as it usually saves me time. What a joke!!!

 

[nord1899]

I am not saying Ati is bad. I really enjoyed the AIW card. I right now use a GF4/4200. My next card will probably be an Ati card.

I am just saying that Ati did have problems. The drivers issue is not a myth. But I suspect they have cleaned up their act in that regard. I don't know though since I don't use Ati at the moment.

 

[BFG10K]

Do they still have them today?

Of course, every vendor has driver problems including nVidia. While ATi has improved by leaps and bounds I can't say that they match nVidia yet. They're almost there but not quite.

However when it comes to driver support both vendors are excellent and they're far better than some other vendors I could mention.

 

[Wolfsraider]

some are not romoving all the old drivers or doing a clean install.

this seems to be the biggest issue and there are a few games with bugs but ati has been fixing them at a great rate lately.

you also have to remember that not all mobo manufacturers follow specs exactly and this can also attribute to the ati myth

heck i had problems with sp1 on winxp but it was fixed by downloading a different sp1 on microsofts site.

but 1 glitch and ati gets the blame(still) "shrugs" to each his own i guess


i have not had many problems with ati since i learned early on you are better off formatting and reinstalling rather than wait for the glitches due to file or driver remnants.its a lot easier to not have those glitches than to try to find them later.

mike

 

[spanky]

i've never had problems with ATI either. but then again, the only game i play is counter-strike.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: pocketExistentialist
I've had a 9700 AIW Pro for about a month and a half now. I was building a new system to include it, and the only thing I did was of course a fresh install of windows, DX9, and Catalyst 3 drivers. No tweaking. I have played the following games on it:

Age of Wonders II
Battle Realms
Battlefield 1942
Half-Life / Counterstrike
Heroes of Might and Magic IV
Mafia
Morrowind
No One Lives Forever 2
Nox
Soldier of Fortune II
Jedi Knight II
Unreal Tournament 2003
Warcraft III

And I have NEVER, EVER had a single graphics bug, glitch, or crash. I didn't perform a pagan ritual to the silicon gods, I did nothing special, and it's never given me any problems. I've been running it in a P4 system. So I guess my point is, why do people continue to complain about drivers? It seems like the issue is rather nonexistent... I bring this up because every time there's an ATi vs. Nvidia thread, people bitch about ATi drivers, and since the GF-FX just came out, there seems to be an Nvidia bashing thread of epic proportions.

I agree that ATi's drivers are very solid now, and have few problems, but one reason you are not having problems is because you don't play any of the blacklist games (games with known issues). I myself have had very few problems (TV-out gamma issue is quite annoying), but I have had problems with NFS Hot Pursuit 2 crashing if I turn everything all the way up and Sim City 4 has a slow scrolling issue which is more of an annoyance than anything else. Other than that I haven't had any gaming issues.

 

[pocketExistentialist]

Originally posted by: Pariah

Originally posted by: pocketExistentialist
I've had a 9700 AIW Pro for about a month and a half now. I was building a new system to include it, and the only thing I did was of course a fresh install of windows, DX9, and Catalyst 3 drivers. No tweaking. I have played the following games on it:

Age of Wonders II
Battle Realms
Battlefield 1942
Half-Life / Counterstrike
Heroes of Might and Magic IV
Mafia
Morrowind
No One Lives Forever 2
Nox
Soldier of Fortune II
Jedi Knight II
Unreal Tournament 2003
Warcraft III

And I have NEVER, EVER had a single graphics bug, glitch, or crash. I didn't perform a pagan ritual to the silicon gods, I did nothing special, and it's never given me any problems. I've been running it in a P4 system. So I guess my point is, why do people continue to complain about drivers? It seems like the issue is rather nonexistent... I bring this up because every time there's an ATi vs. Nvidia thread, people bitch about ATi drivers, and since the GF-FX just came out, there seems to be an Nvidia bashing thread of epic proportions.

I agree that ATi's drivers are very solid now, and have few problems, but one reason you are not having problems is because you don't play any of the blacklist games (games with known issues). I myself have had very few problems (TV-out gamma issue is quite annoying), but I have had problems with NFS Hot Pursuit 2 crashing if I turn everything all the way up and Sim City 4 has a slow scrolling issue which is more of an annoyance than anything else. Other than that I haven't had any gaming issues.

Oh, actually I did try NFS2 at a LAN I was at but I ended up uninstalling it. Everything up, 4x AA + 8x AF and no issues.

And as for the person who said there are MMC issues, I haven't had any, but most people I hear complaining about ATi's drivers do so in reference to non-AIW cards, so I can only assume they are talking about games there.

 

[CraigRT]

you're lucky.. i like my 8500 but i had problems when first installing it. and the only other time i've actually SEEN a glitch with an ATI card for my own eyes was in UT2003 on the pyramid level... there was NO textures in the sand... it was just flat. that was odd.. they are alot better than they used to be... the myth is more last year, and the year before. not this year.

 

[Budman]

Having a 8500 too I can say I have never seen the problems myself & I play a lot of games.

That's why I love my 8500,I guess some people love to bring ATI down.

BUT I stayed away from VIA I guess that's the secret of my success.

I come away with 1 lesson,stay away from VIA & you'll bypass a lot of the incompatability problems.

 

[ahabeger]

I've still got a system with a Radeon 7000 VIVO in it, that card started out life in a system with a 440GX chipset (BX's bigger brother) but it would not be stable. Something with the card disagreed with that system. I've now got the card in a system with a KT133a chipset and I do not upgrade drivers unless I have to. ATi driver upgrades have caused the system to be unstable several times, I roll back drivers and the system regains it's stability. I've had *NO* problems with my nVidia systems, so I haven't bought an ATi card since that Radeon 7000.

 

[Pariah]

Oh, actually I did try NFS2 at a LAN I was at but I ended up uninstalling it. Everything up, 4x AA + 8x AF and no issues.

The instabilities only occur with everything maxed. If you turn down AA and AF a notch everything is ok.

 

[Sid03]

both gta3 and nfs5 had horrible driver issues. i think they got fixed with revisions, but they had problems nonetheless.

i'm not saying the problems were limited to those games... i'm just giving examples.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: pocketExistentialist

And I have NEVER, EVER had a single graphics bug, glitch, or crash. I didn't perform a pagan ritual to the silicon gods, I did nothing special, and it's never given me any problems. I've been running it in a P4 system. So I guess my point is, why do people continue to complain about drivers? It seems like the issue is rather nonexistent... I bring this up because every time there's an ATi vs. Nvidia thread, people bitch about ATi drivers, and since the GF-FX just came out, there seems to be an Nvidia bashing thread of epic proportions.

Because not everyone uses their PC as a glorified GAmeBoxCube (tm)

Chiz

 

[imported_Mike]

ati drivers are crap, its a gamble, you won in this case. but if i buy $200-$400 card, i dont want to hassle with the fvcking drivers to get it to work.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Dont come in here and talk about an AIW card and say games work....Go over to www.rage3d.com and you will see the issue is with a lot of the mmc features...

1) TV tuner works?? Looks good quality...
2) How does the Pause TV sound?? Any echoing or other sound problems??
3) Does the DVD player stutter??
4) ARe you capturing without any bugs in all the available codecs???
5) How does TV-out work and look???

These are issues with AIW cards and drivers...NOT GAMES!!!


It is not a myth. I am a many times ATI owner and I can attest there are mnay bugs even in the most current sets of drivers. I however know that it is not all ati's fault as there are conflicts in software and hardware compatabilities with a lot of the issues.


On the other hand the terrible install and update procedure is over the top. I know I know about the program that cleans it up for you but you would think somebody could design drivers that can update existing files and remove others without hosing the whole thing. I just reformat now instead as it usually saves me time. What a joke!!!

Really? I have a AIW 7500 that has the same TV tuner and Rage Theater chip that the AIW 9700 has I believe, and even on a Via *gasp* based 8K5A2+ @ 172mhz FSB, I can do all those things you mention without a problem. I just watched a DVD tonight on my LCD and recorded a hockey game just yesterday. The TV out works perfectly, but I rarely use it. Oh, and this is with a passively cooled, overclocked card in a overclocked system enviroment.

BTW - I'm still using the "old" 2.3 Catalysts with no problems..

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: Duvie
Dont come in here and talk about an AIW card and say games work....Go over to www.rage3d.com and you will see the issue is with a lot of the mmc features...

1) TV tuner works?? Looks good quality...
2) How does the Pause TV sound?? Any echoing or other sound problems??
3) Does the DVD player stutter??
4) ARe you capturing without any bugs in all the available codecs???
5) How does TV-out work and look???

These are issues with AIW cards and drivers...NOT GAMES!!!


It is not a myth. I am a many times ATI owner and I can attest there are mnay bugs even in the most current sets of drivers. I however know that it is not all ati's fault as there are conflicts in software and hardware compatabilities with a lot of the issues.


On the other hand the terrible install and update procedure is over the top. I know I know about the program that cleans it up for you but you would think somebody could design drivers that can update existing files and remove others without hosing the whole thing. I just reformat now instead as it usually saves me time. What a joke!!!

Really? I have a AIW 7500 that has the same TV tuner and Rage Theater chip that the AIW 9700 has I believe, and even on a Via *gasp* based 8K5A2+ @ 172mhz FSB, I can do all those things you mention without a problem. I just watched a DVD tonight on my LCD and recorded a hockey game just yesterday. The TV out works perfectly, but I rarely use it. Oh, and this is with a passively cooled, overclocked card in a overclocked system enviroment.

BTW - I'm still using the "old" 2.3 Catalysts with no problems..

I have never had tv issues....My old radeon 8500 non dv card had terrible tv out problems and this one look crisp and clean...The issues I listed are the many talked about at www.rage3d.com

My issues....

1) DVD player stuttered...I did multiple reinstalls and problem still existed...I use windvd anyways and the ati player is quite substandard compared to it.

2) I get echoing effect when running pause tv mode. I though it was a creative audigy issue and that cat 2.5's would solve and no go...

3)Get infinite loop error when fsb is greater then 153fsb...it is a mobo and card conflict as it runs fine at 166fsb with my epox 4g4a+...

4)I get the atimmc.exe failing to shutdown when I shutdown tv or player sometimes....I have to ctrl-alt-del and manually turn it off...This is a highly documented problem and quite popular at rage3d.com

I had a few more I worked through with update to 2.3 and 2.4 cats...ATI may eventually get to them but it is sad to know that cd drivers that come in the box are so incompetent to make it work out of the box....

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Sid03
both gta3 and nfs5 had horrible driver issues. i think they got fixed with revisions, but they had problems nonetheless.

i'm not saying the problems were limited to those games... i'm just giving examples.

How about the fact that the game has bugs? We tend to blame our problems on hardware when in reaity most games are shipped incomplete so they can garner sales in that time frame and then developers go back and begin to iron out bugs

*cough* Battlefield 1942

I was amazed at the score of that game...upon release it was full of bugs and and it was so ridiculous that a 1.4 Ghz Oc'd T-brd with a g3ti200 and 512 megs of pc2100 ram skipped (now its MUCH smoother...)


But I woudl've rated that game a 7.9 mainly because of bugs and whatnot.

 

[TheNoblePlatypus]

I didn't have any problems with the 9700 I returned actually. I just didn't find it fast enough to warrant a $400 upgrade. I was going from a Geforce 4 TI4200, since I don't really care if my card hits 300fps in a benchmark its not a big deal for me as long as its smooth like butter.

 

[Sid03]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Sid03
both gta3 and nfs5 had horrible driver issues. i think they got fixed with revisions, but they had problems nonetheless.

i'm not saying the problems were limited to those games... i'm just giving examples.

How about the fact that the game has bugs? We tend to blame our problems on hardware when in reaity most games are shipped incomplete so they can garner sales in that time frame and then developers go back and begin to iron out bugs

*cough* Battlefield 1942

I was amazed at the score of that game...upon release it was full of bugs and and it was so ridiculous that a 1.4 Ghz Oc'd T-brd with a g3ti200 and 512 megs of pc2100 ram skipped (now its MUCH smoother...)


But I woudl've rated that game a 7.9 mainly because of bugs and whatnot.

because both of those games ran fine as soon as i switched to a gf3.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: Duvie
Dont come in here and talk about an AIW card and say games work....Go over to www.rage3d.com and you will see the issue is with a lot of the mmc features...

1) TV tuner works?? Looks good quality...
2) How does the Pause TV sound?? Any echoing or other sound problems??
3) Does the DVD player stutter??
4) ARe you capturing without any bugs in all the available codecs???
5) How does TV-out work and look???

These are issues with AIW cards and drivers...NOT GAMES!!!


It is not a myth. I am a many times ATI owner and I can attest there are mnay bugs even in the most current sets of drivers. I however know that it is not all ati's fault as there are conflicts in software and hardware compatabilities with a lot of the issues.


On the other hand the terrible install and update procedure is over the top. I know I know about the program that cleans it up for you but you would think somebody could design drivers that can update existing files and remove others without hosing the whole thing. I just reformat now instead as it usually saves me time. What a joke!!!

Really? I have a AIW 7500 that has the same TV tuner and Rage Theater chip that the AIW 9700 has I believe, and even on a Via *gasp* based 8K5A2+ @ 172mhz FSB, I can do all those things you mention without a problem. I just watched a DVD tonight on my LCD and recorded a hockey game just yesterday. The TV out works perfectly, but I rarely use it. Oh, and this is with a passively cooled, overclocked card in a overclocked system enviroment.

BTW - I'm still using the "old" 2.3 Catalysts with no problems..

LoL, that reads like a laundry list of the problems I'm having. I pointed it out in one of the other threads and every FanATicboy jumped down my throat like I was lying

I pointed out that people over at Rage3D were having major issues the 9700pro + video overlay/directdraw and that every single driver release has addressed abovementioned issues. Its definitely something to do with their WDM drivers, I'll just have to wait til they release one that works.

Insane3D, it may work with your card, but the scary part is that people actually use products from other mfgs. that aren't ATI. :Q The worse part about ATI support (other than their unresponsiveness) is that they ONLY address their products and don't bother to support issues from other mfgs. I'm not buying another TV wonder, I've gone down that road and its garbage. I'm also not getting locked into an AIW card that'll be obsolete for gaming purposes in a year.

Back to searching for an ATI WDM driver that works...I found one in Brazil that looked promising, but still not the right one....hmmmm.....Sourceforge.net has open source WDM drivers, maybe I'll make my own!!

Chiz

 

[mindwarp]

Dont forget their horrible drivers for linux also. They are nothing compared to nvidias.