I can't think of any industry not cartelized by the U.S. gov

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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Let's start off with something I got pissed off reading about last night... AMD and nvidia both recently received $12mn contracts from the DoE in addition to the all of the patents they already have.

Because of IP, we only have like 2 operating systems (Linux doesn't count because it's restricted by IP barriers) and we only have 2 CPU makers, again because of IP (well, we have IBM and ARM, but IP is responsible for anyone other than intel and AMD taking off with casual operating systems). That's the tech side.

As for banking, they're cartelized because there is a legislated lender of last resort. Due to that, fewer make money off of their own money.

As for pharmaceuticals, we have several companies, but they introduce all of these me-too drugs because of the patent system. So there is no free market in making medicines. I heard that Italy invented 9% of the world's new pharmaceutical drugs when Italy didn't have a patent system during a 20 year period until 1980... so patents aren't necessary for inventions; they're just necessary to make an obscene profit that is not subject to the laws of supply and demand.

Look at the food industry. Monsanto has control of the FDA and they've won so much in court that it's ridiculous.

Look at the car industry. They either get free loans from the Fed or they can't fail because they get bailed out. It would've been cheaper to just let the companies go under and then just put the former employees on unemployment.

Look at the energy industry. Even if central planning was ethical, the standards set by the EPA are worthless or incomplete. It was the market that fixed the toilets that didn't flush. The government mandated that new toilets had to use less water and while it's nice to save water, it wound up backfiring because they didn't require a certain water pressure.

Look at agriculture sector. The richest 72% get 90% of subsidies or vice versa. Look at how expensive organic consumables are and how much more obese American society has become, especially poor Americans.

My dad's medical practice now gets subsidized for switching to electronic medical records system... so that means many other medical practices across the country have already been paid by the government at tax payer expense. The electronic medical records system is not a good idea, because it makes it easier for the government to set up a bureaucrazy to search patients' medical records. They can probably then just give that info away to businesses... maybe even pharmaceutical companies.

The U.S. treaty with the U.N., WTO, and WB have also been anti-market because Americans have been taxed and regulated to support them... all at the expense of third worlders who probably wouldn't be so if it weren't for global statism.

I hope people will some day realize that there is no happy medium with regulations as the state will always be biased in favor of those with connections. I'll be damned if anyone can actually prove that any regulation has ever benefited society more than it has hurt society.
 
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Apr 27, 2012
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Regulation never benefits society, government idiots think they can help people yet they do the opposite but this country is full of idiots who dont have any idea on how it works
 
Dec 10, 2005
28,118
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Let's start off with something I got pissed off reading about last night... AMD and nvidia both recently received $12mn contracts from the DoE in addition to the all of the patents they already have.

Because of IP, we only have like 2 operating systems (Linux doesn't count because it's restricted by IP barriers) and we only have 2 CPU makers, again because of IP (well, we have IBM and ARM, but IP is responsible for anyone other than intel and AMD taking off with casual operating systems). That's the tech side.

As for banking, they're cartelized because there is a legislated lender of last resort. Due to that, fewer make money off of their own money.

As for pharmaceuticals, we have several companies, but they introduce all of these me-too drugs because of the patent system. So there is no free market in making medicines. I heard that Italy invented 9% of the world's new pharmaceutical drugs when Italy didn't have a patent system during a 20 year period until 1980... so patents aren't necessary for inventions; they're just necessary to make an obscene profit that is not subject to the laws of supply and demand.

Look at the food industry. Monsanto has control of the FDA and they've won so much in court that it's ridiculous.

Look at the car industry. They either get free loans from the Fed or they can't fail because they get bailed out. It would've been cheaper to just let the companies go under and then just put the former employees on unemployment.

Look at the energy industry. Even if central planning was ethical, the standards set by the EPA are worthless or incomplete. It was the market that fixed the toilets that didn't flush. The government mandated that new toilets had to use less water and while it's nice to save water, it wound up backfiring because they didn't require a certain water pressure.

Look at agriculture sector. The richest 72% get 90% of subsidies or vice versa. Look at how expensive organic consumables are and how much more obese American society has become, especially poor Americans.

My dad's medical practice now gets subsidized for switching to electronic medical records system... so that means many other medical practices across the country have already been paid by the government at tax payer expense. The electronic medical records system is not a good idea, because it makes it easier for the government to set up a bureaucrazy to search patients' medical records. They can probably then just give that info away to businesses... maybe even pharmaceutical companies.

The U.S. treaty with the U.N., WTO, and WB have also been anti-market because Americans have been taxed and regulated to support them... all at the expense of third worlders who probably wouldn't be so if it weren't for global statism.

I hope people will some day realize that there is no happy medium with regulations as the state will always be biased in favor of those with connections. I'll be damned if anyone can actually prove that any regulation has ever benefited society more than it has hurt society.

Regulation never benefits society, government idiots think they can help people yet they do the opposite but this country is full of idiots who dont have any idea on how it works

I give you Exhibits A and B
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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On the other hand, if left on their own companies will cartelize themselves.
Without anti monopoly laws we wouldn't have AMD anymore since Intel would have driven them out of business back in the late 1990's.
 

Anarchist420

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Without anti monopoly laws we wouldn't have AMD anymore since Intel would have driven them out of business back in the late 1990's.
Well, intel would've had to have been mighty damn good to survive on their own in a free market.
On the other hand, if left on their own companies will cartelize themselves.
They wouldn't be perpetual as they would not be centrally enforced. Keep in mind that no company has ever had 100% of the industry it was in.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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Because of IP, we only have like 2 operating systems (Linux doesn't count because it's restricted by IP barriers) and we only have 2 CPU makers, again because of IP (well, we have IBM and ARM, but IP is responsible for anyone other than intel and AMD taking off with casual operating systems). That's the tech side.

Are you back to saying that intel and AMD should spend hundreds of millions to design new CPUs without any IP laws to keep other companies from spending next to nothing to copy those designs?

Your anarchist business model is not sustainable in the real world.

Unless you're also figuring in the anarchist dream of intel using private armies to slaughter the executives of the rival CPU companies that copied their designs . . . . but once they do that, you're back to an intel monopoly and smoking ruins for the rivals' HQs.
 

DaveSimmons

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Aug 12, 2001
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Sensei: "What is best in life, intel?"

intel: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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Well, intel would've had to have been mighty damn good to survive on their own in a free market.They wouldn't be perpetual as they would not be centrally enforced. Keep in mind that no company has ever had 100% of the industry it was in.

Intel was one of the most profitable companies on earth with a huge amount of money in the bank when AMD released the Athlons. Intel could have dropped their prices by two thirds and AMD would have been out of business in six months.

Then, any company that wanted to get into the cpu game against them would not have been able to raise money to build fabs, and market the chips long enough before Intel put them out of business too.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
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Funny I can't think of any portion of the government not cartelized by industry.

It's not small business lobbying for no regulation, it's all of the large corps lobbying for it.

While I think some ip law is stupid, cut it and you stifle innovation. Who wants to spend r$d money with no return?

Problem isn't ip problem is the lifespan of it.
 

PingviN

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2009
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Regulation never benefits society, government idiots think they can help people yet they do the opposite but this country is full of idiots who dont have any idea on how it works

Regulations do benefit society. Ask Germany.
 

DaveSimmons

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Aug 12, 2001
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Regulation never benefits society, government idiots think they can help people yet they do the opposite but this country is full of idiots who dont have any idea on how it works

Enjoy your lead-infused pasta and melamine milk from China. Be sure to wear your filter mask when you leave your house, the coal dust and car exhaust is thick today.

We were telling people to drink only bottled water, but the last batch of bottles included some nasty toxins that leached into the water, so it's back to boiling the stuff from the tap for at least 15 minutes before use.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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Well, intel would've had to have been mighty damn good to survive on their own in a free market.They wouldn't be perpetual as they would not be centrally enforced. Keep in mind that no company has ever had 100% of the industry it was in.

lol something tells me that you have no clue how fucking big Intel was in the 90's and how small AMD was (still is).

then again IBM could have completely dominated ALL parts of computers
 
Apr 27, 2012
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Enjoy your lead-infused pasta and melamine milk from China. Be sure to wear your filter mask when you leave your house, the coal dust and car exhaust is thick today.

We were telling people to drink only bottled water, but the last batch of bottles included some nasty toxins that leached into the water, so it's back to boiling the stuff from the tap for at least 15 minutes before use.

Why is it always fear mongering from you leftys?
 

ManyBeers

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2004
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Well, intel would've had to have been mighty damn good to survive on their own in a free market.They wouldn't be perpetual as they would not be centrally enforced. Keep in mind that no company has ever had 100% of the industry it was in.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoa By about 1903, after a settlement with Hall's former employer, and while its patents were in force, the company was the only legal supplier of aluminum in the US.[5][6]
 
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DaveSimmons

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Aug 12, 2001
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It's sad that some "righties" take the position that any regulation at all is bad, instead of seeking a balance.

Do you really think it's OK to go back to poisoning groundwater and streams, filling the air with toxic chemicals and coal dust, selling rotten meat and tainted food, untested drugs, and so on?

It's not "fear mongering", American manufacturers used to do exactly that until pesky regulations stopped them. It was cheaper to dump chemicals into streams than to dispose of them properly, so why would a company pay more?

At least in A420's wacky anarchist world local citizens could take their assault rifles and RPGs and stop the chemical plant from polluting by destroying it. In your capitalist paradise Homeland Security would prevent that.

Also, I'm a "moddy" not a lefty.
 
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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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It's sad that some "righties" take the position that any regulation at all is bad, instead of seeking a balance.

Do you really think it's OK to go back to poisoning groundwater and streams, filling the air with toxic chemicals and coal dust, selling rotten meat and tainted food, untested drugs, and so on?

It's not "fear mongering", American manufacturers used to do exactly that until pesky regulations stopped them. It was cheaper to dump chemicals into streams than to dispose of them properly, so why would a company pay more?

At least in A420's wacky anarchist world local citizens could take their assault rifles and RPGs and stop the chemical plant from polluting by destroying it. In your capitalist paradise Homeland Security would prevent that.

Also, I'm a "moddy" not a lefty.

Things would be as bad if not as worse than China currently b/c that how things were in the past. Ask those that live in neighborhoods that were former toxic sites, the rate of cancer and other illnesses.
 

Anarchist420

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It's sad that some "righties" take the position that any regulation at all is bad, instead of seeking a balance.
I can understand that some regulations may be well intended and may even work from time to time, but I don't think happy mediums exist in this world. I fail to understand how a govt with arbitrary reg power is going to wind up making things better overall than it would be without.

You bring up some good points, but in this universe there is no straight line through the axis and I think it's a revolt against nature by the state when it tries to make the amplitude neutral.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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I can understand that some regulations may be well intended and may even work from time to time, but I don't think happy mediums exist in this world. I fail to understand how a govt with arbitrary reg power is going to wind up making things better overall than it would be without.

You bring up some good points, but in this universe there is no straight line through the axis and I think it's a revolt against nature by the state when it tries to make the amplitude neutral.

Out of curiosity, how would one deal with a chemical plant poisoning groundwater wells, without laws and regulations? No clean water laws, no crime.

Is it really the assault rifles and RPGs to shut them down?