I can believe these guys even attempted to build their own "UPS"

[Windogg]

Not too bright IMHO

These guys have appraently missed the point of a UPS. They seem to think a UPS is simply just a battery for backup power. Of course they missed the other benefits like line conditioning, surge protection, intelligent shutdown, power boosting, warranty, insurance, etc.

Plus why would someone want a regular lead acid battery sitting under their desk?

<<< . When charging, the wet cells we are going to use emit low levels of nitrogen gas. This stuff is flammable. Now, I've seen many people smoke around these things and know that they for the most part are safe, but please use some caution and don't smoke right next to them. >>>

Plus it's not NITROGEN gas but HYDROGEN gas that is emitted.

I don't know about them when I invest all that money in a computer. I want a real solution and not some halfassed hack job.

Plus what home user/game/tweaker really needs 3 hours of uptime? If the power does go down for longer than the 30 minutes of run time a typical UPS offers, you have more serious issues to worry about than Q3/UT/CS.

Sorry for the long post but stupidity like that really gets to me.

Windogg

 

[ArkAoss]

well you could do it if you wanted to, design in the line conditioning, but say you wanted to design a pc powersupply to run from a cars electric system, that varries from like 10-18 right? when the car is running its higher than 12 im pretty sure, so you'd have to regulate the line, its possible, but not worth it, who is going to be in a car for so long that they'd need a full pc built in, and if you want a display, you'd still need a converter for that, unless you modify an lcd display, cause i think those dont need full 120 for the lcd right?

 

[pm]

Your points are all spot-on, Windogg. The link was funny though. I like the explosive N2 bit as well.

 

[Hanpan]

NOt everyone has taken grade 2 chemistry.

It's easy to mistake flamable hydrogen gas for nitrogen gas.

You guys are being too harsh.

YOu can save yourself 50 dollars with this solution. When protecting a top of the line pc 50 is a lot of money and should be saved at all costs.

 

[Windogg]

Ok, I confess. The only &quot;chemistry&quot; I've ever done is mix hot water with my Ramen noodles so this nitrogen/hydrogen thing confuses me. The only gas I deal with on a regular basis is methane. I guess you're right, $50 can buy me Wolfenstein II when it comes out.

Windogg

 

[highwire]

And a tad of Hydrogen suphide too. Whew, Windogg!

Also, the &quot;math&quot; geniuses are off by a factor of 10.

A BIG WET ONE FROM WINDOGG for the first person to point out the blunder that gave them a 30 hour load life!

 

[Windogg]

On the serious side, I'm not an electrical engineer and I admit that those calculations they used were over my head but if a car battery can barely hold 2 headlights accidently left on overnight, what makes them think a computer w/ monitor can run 30 hours? The 3 hours is just a number I tossed out. Plus as the capacity drops, won't the power going into the computer drop as well? Notice how headlights slowly die.

Windogg

 

[highwire]

Very good, Windogg. Your estimate was just what mine was. Three hours. The boys got lost in their own arithmetic. These are their figures:
----
For the following equation, these specs were used.
12Volts -- 180minutes reserve time at 25Amp discharge rate.

1) Take the total output current of the inverter (300 Watts in this case) and divide that by the total output voltage (115V for our purposes). To come up with 2.6 Amps.

2) Then take the number from above (2.6A) and use that to divide into 25A to get 9.6
3) Then multiply the number 9.6 by 180 minutes to get 1728 minutes.
4) Then divide 1728 minutes by 60minutes in an hour to get 28.8 hours.
----
I've done stuff like this for a long time, but I can barely follow it.
Basically, they used the inverter input current as equal to the output current. Wrong. The input current would be more than 26 amps if the inverter was 100% efficient ( power in = power out)and more if less efficient. 300 watts at 11.5 volts in is 300/11.5 = 26.09 amps. Given the power rating of the battery, it works out to less that 3 hours of load life.

Do I get the prize?

 

[office boy]

LOL, i alway wanted to take my smartUPS and rig about 10-15 extra batteries to it and see what that would do to my standby time. I live in an area where the power goes out a lot, and having a couple of hours of standbuy would be nice...

 

[sumdude3]

Hi,
Windogg ....what kind of a gigantic computer do you have..do you host a server or something?
=)
Later

 

[Lord Evermore]

If what you're doing is so important that you can't shut down for the night if the power stays down more than 20 minutes, invest in a generator.

 

[Ornery]

Hmmm, I'm liking this whole thought now. And I think office boy has the right idea. Picture this: run a separate circuit from your garage to your PC. Connect it to the el cheapo UPS for the sake of line conditioning and instant switch over during power outage. Use a couple marine batteries for the brute strength. Voila! Best of both worlds. Any fumes and humming would be out in the garage where it belongs. You get all the benefits of the UPS (a cheap one at that) and mega up time during an outage. Me likes!

 

[Windogg]

For huge power loads there are UPSes like the APC Symmetra. They are modular and you can stack them up like Lego blocks to add more capacity. Anyone that really needs the power protection are more than willing to pay to do it right. Like Lord Evermore said, buy a gernator if your systems are that mission critical.

Windogg

 

[Ornery]

Sheesh Windogg, now you're being as goofy as the guys you posted about. The generator isn't going to switch over instantly enough. You don't need mega power for a gaming rig, just up time. A couple marine batteries wouldn't set you back much compared to the exotic stuff you're talking about. This is doable, on the cheap, and in a proper way!

 

[Homer]

The generator idea is good, something like the 8kW propane powered auto-switching one out in my tractor shed, but you still need a decent UPS, because the quality of the power is not all that great. I use a Back-UPS Pro 420, which will keep my system up for much longer than it takes to switch over, and has good line conditioning, which most cheap UPS's do not have. Basically, when the power goes , heat, lights, &amp; so on just go out for a few seconds and come back up, computer just chugs along. The only thing I have to remember is to turn off the electric hot water heater when we want to cook on the electric stove.

 

[Windogg]

The generator is only an example of what real world companies would use in a mission critial situation. These guys seem to think it's as easy as tossing together a few batteries. One company in the same complex I work in has over 350 servers and then spend a truckload of money to make sure the place stays up 24/7/365. They have massive APC battery arrays. In the back they have a large diesel generator ready to provide juice should the worst happen.

Windogg

 

[erub]

Windogg, i don't think these guys were trying to supply power like a company that would need it would want it. This power is designed to power their $1500 PC for a few hours to game, and I think it is an okay design. Their not trying to hedge into APC's business market.

 

[Ornery]

Man, I feel sorry for guys like Homer. Sounds like he's been down that power outage road a few times. Honestly, we can't complain at all around my neck of the woods. We're down less than once a year for more than 5 minutes. If that weren't the case, I'd have some kind of UPS for sure. Incorporating a Deep Cycle Battery and low cost UPS seems simple (and cheap) enough. I've actually thought about putting half the house on a generator, but just haven't seen the need for it! Knock wood...

 

[etech]

Actually this type of UPS is a very good surge protector. The battery acts as a very large filter and is capable of handling a large surge. It is as good if not better then mov's and other surge protectors. That is assuming that you are always running off of the battery through the inverter.

There is a question as to the type of inverter to get. Some inverters are not true sine-wave and can cause problems with the switch-mode power supplies in computers.

A good APC or TrippLite UPS would be better in the house then a lead-acid battery, but it would work.

 

[MagnusInscitia]

While were at it...(generators, multicell galvanic battery banks, ???)...why don't we just jump on the roof and thrown down some solar panels. Throw in some big cells for a rainy day then we're set.


Hell while were at it, why don't we roll in to the lab an build a small fusion device...



This all seems an awful lot of time...and er,... danger to spend just to game a little longer.

 

[natenut]

LOL, 300 watt power inverter... come on! did they forget about the monitor? a good way to figure out how big a power inverter you need would be to put an ammeter in series with all of your system components (when running off of regular power), record the current and multiply by 120. (S=VI) I'd guess for a total system (monitor, speakers, box) you would need in upwards of 800 watts. Also there are sealed lead batteries for cars. they are Optima battries. Many people use them in car audio for their great reserver capacity. Actually the more i think about this the more i think it is a preaty neat idea. A general purpose relay could be used to switch the power to the backup unit.

hmmmm.... too many ideas!

 

[ElFenix]

800 watts! i have 3 boxes and i'm sure they don't reach that! monitor is about 100 each. speakers maybe 6 at normal volume. if you're running an athlon or a p4 maybe your box will draw 150 in a normal state but i highly doubt even that.