I bought a low lag gaming and movie HD 720p projector - Panasonic PT-AX200U

[Eug]

Ever since about 10 years ago, I've been considering getting a projector for watching movies (and maybe playing the occasional game). A few years ago the market matured to the point that some projectors had the image quality I wanted... albeit a 5-digit prices.

Well, last month the Panasonic PT-AX200U came out... at $1299. So I bought one. It's got most of what I wanted.

1) Hi-def support - 720p only but that's fine with me
2) High brightness mode for ambient lighting
3) Low lag mode for gaming
4) Dual HDMI inputs
5) No visible screen door effect at normal seating distances, despite being a 3 LCD design
6) Quiet operation
7) VGA input
8) Easy placement, with 1-2X zoom lens. It's both a short throw and long throw projector
9) Ceiling mountable
10) Lens shift built in, making placement even easier
11) 1080p60 and 1080p24 input, with corresponding 720p60 and 720p24 output.

I'm shocked at just how well this unit performs and how flexible it is in terms of both placement and usage, considering its very low price.

I know some of you think your 37" or 42" LCDs are big (and I have one too), but I tell ya, watching a movie or playing a game on this projector with an 80 or 90 or 100 or 110" screen is just a whole other level.

Now I just need a screen. I've been using my bare wall, but I'm getting a dedicated screen soon. To fit this room, I'm going with a rather "small" 84" screen.

For those of you with a spare room or a basement or whatever, I definitely recommend getting one.

 

[Excelsior]

Give us 'screen'shot please! With the lights off sans-flash.

 

[montypythizzle]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Give us 'screen'shot please! With the lights off sans-flash.

I thought that was a given!!

 

[Eug]

88" image <-- Pitch Black HD DVD

Up close with the menu

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: Eug
Ever since about 10 years ago, I've been considering getting a projector for watching movies (and maybe playing the occasional game). A few years ago the market matured to the point that some projectors had the image quality I wanted... albeit a 5-digit prices.

Well, last month the Panasonic PT-AX200U came out... at $1299. So I bought one. It's got most of what I wanted.

1) Hi-def support - 720p only but that's fine with me
2) High brightness mode for ambient lighting
3) Low lag mode for gaming
4) Dual HDMI inputs
5) No visible screen door effect at normal seating distances, despite being a 3 LCD design
6) Quiet operation
7) VGA input
8) Easy placement, with 1-2X zoom lens. It's both a short throw and long throw projector
9) Ceiling mountable
10) Lens shift built in, making placement even easier
11) 1080p60 and 1080p24 input, with corresponding 720p60 and 720p24 output.

I'm shocked at just how well this unit performs and how flexible it is in terms of both placement and usage, considering its very low price.

I know some of you think your 37" or 42" LCDs are big (and I have one too), but I tell ya, watching a movie or playing a game on this projector with an 80 or 90 or 100 or 110" screen is just a whole other level.

Now I just need a screen. I've been using my bare wall, but I'm getting a dedicated screen soon. To fit this room, I'm going with a rather "small" 84" screen.

For those of you with a spare room or a basement or whatever, I definitely recommend getting one.

QFT. I have a lowly Infocus 4805 (480p), but the overall experience is so much better than my smaller TV (43" Pioneer Elite plasma).

waits for Spidey to come tell me that's because neither is 1080

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
QFT. I have a lowly Infocus 4805 (480p), but the overall experience is so much better than my smaller TV (43" Pioneer Elite plasma).

waits for Spidey to come tell me that's because neither is 1080

At my seating distance, 1080p is irrelevant for my TV.

I went to the store and checked out the 42" Toshiba Regza 720p LCD and the 42" Toshiba Regza 1080p LCD.

With normal HD content, I couldn't tell the difference past about 5 feet away from the screen. (5' is about 1.6-1.7X screen width.) I could see no pixel structure at all at my normal 8'+ distance, and I couldn't tell any difference with the image detail either. So, I bought the 720p model and saved hundreds of bux. I have not been disappointed with my choice.

It's a little bit different for LCD projectors, since some model LCD projectors have obvious screen door effect at normal seating distances. (While you generally won't sit as close as 4' feet away from a 42" LCD TV, you might sit as close as say 9 feet away from a large projected screen.) For example, the Sony Bravia VPL-AW15 is reported to have visible screen door effect at as far as 1.8X screen width. That'd be about 5.5 feet away from a 42" screen, or 11 feet from an 84" screen.

However, despite the Panasonic PT-AX200U being a 3 LCD based system, there is no visible screen door effect at all at anything less than about 6-7' as far as I can tell with an 88" projected image. To be conservative, let's just say 7 feet with an 84" screen. At 7' away, that's only 1.15X screen width, which is far too close to the screen for my tastes. Panasonic does this with a technology called Smooth Screen. I don't know how they do it, but they manage to keep the image very sharp, while removing the screen door effect. (I'm told you can slightly defocus the Sony to remove the screen door effect, but that makes the whole image less sharp.) 1080p would basically remove the need for this, but my point here is that with the Panasonic you don't actually need 1080p for an excellent quality image (whereas on the Sony you would).

BTW, here is an extreme close up of the projected image showing you the screen door effect (in the smoke) on the Panasonic PT-AX200U. However, like I said, this is completely invisible past about 6ish feet away. At normal seating distances, the Panasonic gives a very nice film like picture.

$1299 for this much performance in a projector simply blows me away.

P.S. The reviews suggest that with your Infocus 4805, you'd probably have to sit about 2X the screen width away to avoid seeing the pixel structure. That wouldn't really work for me. For an 84" screen, that would mean I'd have to sit 12' away. My seating distance is about 9' away, which is 1.48X screen width. Most installers recommend a seating distance of around 1.5X for projector setups.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Congrats - looks awesome.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I went from a Infocus 4805 to a Panasonic AE900U and I was able to go from a 76" screen to a 102" screen while keeping pixel structure minimal at the same viewing distance.

More vibrant color along with the ability to increase image size was the biggest advantage to me going from one to the other. I'm going to ride this AE900U out for as long as possible now so that down the road my next projector will be a big step forward in performance without breaking the bank.

More traditional displays definitely have their advantages, but with the kind of cinematic experience I'm used to now, I'd have a hard time going back to a smaller display.

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
QFT. I have a lowly Infocus 4805 (480p), but the overall experience is so much better than my smaller TV (43" Pioneer Elite plasma).

waits for Spidey to come tell me that's because neither is 1080

P.S. The reviews suggest that with your Infocus 4805, you'd probably have to sit about 2X the screen width away to avoid seeing the pixel structure. That wouldn't really work for me. For an 84" screen, that would mean I'd have to sit 12' away. My seating distance is about 9' away, which is 1.48X screen width. Most installers recommend a seating distance of around 1.5X for projector setups.

To me it's like the damper wires on Trinitron CRT monitors - yeah, you can see them if you're looking for them, but under normal usage you don't notice. I can definitely see a SDE with mine (we sit ~10 feet from the screen) but I don't find it distracting in the least.

At some point I'll upgrade to a 720p projector, I just can't justify it right now. We are not big TV/movie watchers...in fact, now that I've moved the HD satellite receiver into the bedroom to attach to the plasma, it's mostly the kids that use the projector with their PS2 games. It obviously wouldn't show much advantage to upgrade the projector. I might run a cable through the walls to the projector from the bedroom this weekend though...then watch some football games on the 'really big screen' again.

 

[Anubis]

i would so do this if i had a fing wall to hang a screen on

 

[Modelworks]

I have a nice 12ft x 15ft wall that I could use one of these on.
But I just got a 51" hitachi hdtv for free so I'm happy for now.

My biggest gripe is HD sources. some channels are great, sometimes they are 1080 sometimes 720, sometimes SD. Really wish channels would standardize and tell when they are broadcasting in true hd or just upconverted content.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
QFT. I have a lowly Infocus 4805 (480p), but the overall experience is so much better than my smaller TV (43" Pioneer Elite plasma).

waits for Spidey to come tell me that's because neither is 1080

I want a 1080p projector. But the ones I really like are way too pricey.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
QFT. I have a lowly Infocus 4805 (480p), but the overall experience is so much better than my smaller TV (43" Pioneer Elite plasma).

waits for Spidey to come tell me that's because neither is 1080

I want a 1080p projector. But the ones I really like are way too pricey.

That's why I went with a 720p model that has minimal screen door effect.

As the review says, it's like a poor man's 1080p projector. And it happens to be brighter than most home theatre 1080p projectors too.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
QFT. I have a lowly Infocus 4805 (480p), but the overall experience is so much better than my smaller TV (43" Pioneer Elite plasma).

waits for Spidey to come tell me that's because neither is 1080

I want a 1080p projector. But the ones I really like are way too pricey.

That's why I went with a 720p model that has minimal screen door effect.

As the review says, it's like a poor man's 1080p projector. And it happens to be brighter than most home theatre 1080p projectors too.

I SO want a SXRD projector. The color is amazing.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
QFT. I have a lowly Infocus 4805 (480p), but the overall experience is so much better than my smaller TV (43" Pioneer Elite plasma).

waits for Spidey to come tell me that's because neither is 1080

I want a 1080p projector. But the ones I really like are way too pricey.

That's why I went with a 720p model that has minimal screen door effect.

As the review says, it's like a poor man's 1080p projector. And it happens to be brighter than most home theatre 1080p projectors too.

If you don't mind, could you get a normal "daylight" picture (preferably with the same background images for comparison)?

Enjoy!

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I SO want a SXRD projector. The color is amazing.

I very briefly considered the Sony VPL-VW60.

But then I decided it was a complete waste of money for my purposes.

BTW, early comments by people who have seen it say that the high end Panasonic PT-AE2000U (not my PT-AX200U) beats the best Sonys for colour accuracy, despite being (likely) cheaper.

Originally posted by: Tiamat
If you don't mind, could you get a normal "daylight" picture (preferably with the same background images for comparison)?

I won't bother, cuz it will suck. Projectors are much brighter than they used to be, but they still can't compete with the sun.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: spidey07
I SO want a SXRD projector. The color is amazing.

I very briefly considered the Sony VPL-VW60.

But then I decided it was a complete waste of money for my purposes.

BTW, early comments by people who have seen it say that the high end Panasonic PT-AE2000U (not my PT-AX200U) beats the best Sonys for colour accuracy, despite being (likely) cheaper.

Originally posted by: Tiamat
If you don't mind, could you get a normal "daylight" picture (preferably with the same background images for comparison)?

I won't bother, cuz it will suck. Projectors are much brighter than they used to be, but they still can't compete with the sun.

Thanks for the response. I guess PJs still aren't for me then. I would need it to be as bright of a picture as my current LCD in a well-lit living room. Guess I'll wait a few more years.

 

[Eug]

Today, I tried it, and it wasn't as bad as I expected. If I put the projector in torch mode, the image was watchable with light coming in the window, but it was still washed out. I didn't take this picture, but the pic is of the AX200U in the daytime with some light coming through the window. I got similar results, but it was somewhat worse in my case, because I had more light coming in.

Waiting a few years may not necessarily help. The AX200U is already EXTREMELY strong by consumer home theatre projector standards, at 2000 lumens. That's already into business projector standards, and is what is spec'd for small conference rooms (where you often leave some background lights on). In fact, 2000 lumens is already way stronger than the $$$$ 1080p home theatre projectors out there. For example, the AX200U's big brother is the AE2000U, and it is "only" 1500 lumens.

We have a 3000 lumen professional projector at work, and even that one gets washed out if you don't close the blinds. And 3000 lumens is 50% stronger than the strongest 720p consumer home theatre projector in existence (which is the AX200U). Most consumer 720p projectors are in the 900-1300 lumen range.

 

[Eug]

Daytime pix


Pitch Black:

http://www.eugbanana.com/files...ime-PitchBlack-800.jpg


Corpse Bride:

http://www.eugbanana.com/files...me-CorpseBride-800.jpg
http://www.eugbanana.com/files...e-CorpseBride2-800.jpg

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Tiamat

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: spidey07
I SO want a SXRD projector. The color is amazing.

I very briefly considered the Sony VPL-VW60.

But then I decided it was a complete waste of money for my purposes.

BTW, early comments by people who have seen it say that the high end Panasonic PT-AE2000U (not my PT-AX200U) beats the best Sonys for colour accuracy, despite being (likely) cheaper.

Originally posted by: Tiamat
If you don't mind, could you get a normal "daylight" picture (preferably with the same background images for comparison)?

I won't bother, cuz it will suck. Projectors are much brighter than they used to be, but they still can't compete with the sun.

Thanks for the response. I guess PJs still aren't for me then. I would need it to be as bright of a picture as my current LCD in a well-lit living room. Guess I'll wait a few more years.

There's going to have to be some serious screen tech going on in order for things to look really good in the daytime. Whatever projector you're talking about (even the uber-expensive ones), the blackest black you're going to get is still the color of the screen. Unless you've got a dark colored screen that your projector can overcome with amazing brightness levels, it's still going to look fairly bad.

 

[spidey07]

I'm not up on projector tech, but it seems my theater is perfect for one. Even the brightest sunlight doesn't enter. The TV area is actually sunken in a good 8 feet with the other 8 feet open to the rest of the basement. So the front wall has no light on it, even with the lights on (purposefully didn't want any lights on this wall.

Should I start looking at a projector? I'd have to deal with power and cabling but I might be able to fish some (i've got a fish fishtape).

 

[Eug]

What size screen would you have, and what would be your seating distance? Cuz if your seating distance is greater than about 1.4-1.5X the screen width (not diagonal), then some 720p projectors like the Panasonic PT-AX200U could fit the bill. If you like to sit very close though, or are very, very picky with blacks, etc., then you'd have to spend more on a more expensive projector.

ie. If you wanted a 120" screen size, then then screen width is 104".
1.5 x 104" = 156" seating distance (13 feet).

This would apply to projectors like the LCD Panny, or most of the DLP projectors (assuming you're not susceptible to the rainbow effect).

You'd have to sit further back with some other LCD projectors though, because with some 720p LCDs at a seating distance of 1.5X screen width, you'll notice the screen door effect.

1080p solves these issues, but they're $$$$.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I'm not up on projector tech, but it seems my theater is perfect for one. Even the brightest sunlight doesn't enter. The TV area is actually sunken in a good 8 feet with the other 8 feet open to the rest of the basement. So the front wall has no light on it, even with the lights on (purposefully didn't want any lights on this wall.

Should I start looking at a projector? I'd have to deal with power and cabling but I might be able to fish some (i've got a fish fishtape).

What do you have down there now? Is that your CRT RP area?

You know all about seating distances and screen sizes... front projection really gives the cinematic feel to things, but I know you're very picky about how things look. Of course you'd be able to get a much larger screen size going, but if that's just going to mean moving farther back, then it might not make sense to do so, especially if you're giving up some image quality.

If you're looking at getting a better viewing experience for multiple viewers, then it's really going to open things up for seating options for more locations in the room.

I'm not sure about your area, but there are a number of locations near me that have 1080p projectors set up well to try out in the store. The biggest concern is ambient light, and since you have that taken care of, I think you should at least look at some to see what you think.

 

[LS20]

you gonna put dark curtains over the glass panels?

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: LS20
you gonna put dark curtains over the glass panels?

Yeah, I need to put curtains up there.

Luckily, this time of the year, very little light comes in there after 7:30 pm.