I believe I figured out Microsoft's reasoning behind tablets

Slugbait

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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My mother went a little overboard this Christmas season and gave me a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet. Thirty-six hours after opening my gift I came to the full realization of why Microsoft refuses to release their Windows Phone 7 mobile operating system on tablets, and instead insists on making the world wait almost three years after the introduction of the iPad before we see capacitive touch tablets running a Microsoft operating system.

For the last year and a half, I just assumed it was because Steven Sinofsky was pushing his weight around. After all, lots of ether text has been dedicated to tablets lately, with some pundits stating the desktop PC was dead. Besides, how embarrassing would it be for Sinofsky if Windows were usurped by their mobile OS? While I’m confident that some weight was thrown around, I no longer believe that it was done because Sinofsky felt that Windows was threatened by WP7.

I suppose I should first interject that I’m a bit of a tech geek. My household also has an iPad 2, a couple of WP7 phones, and there’s an iPAQ 3835 sitting in a drawer somewhere among other devices. I had a Windows tablet for a couple of years, back in 2003-2004. There is a dedicated HTPC for each of my three televisions, and I built my own antenna. Almost every computer in my house has been assembled from scratch on the floor of my family room. And now I have an Android-based tablet. So I do have a rather wide swath of experience with different platforms, and am familiar with the major pros and cons of each.

With the release of Windows Phone 7, it was a foregone conclusion that Microsoft had a very capable mobile OS that could quickly and easily get them into the capacitive touch tablet game against Apple and Google and the smaller players. Unlike Windows Tablet Edition, WP7 fully supports capacitive touch, the UI is considered by many gadget gurus as the most elegant of all, it works very well with Office, and Marketplace surpassed 50,000 published applications for WP7 in the first 14 months of availability (in comparison, it took iOS 12 months and Android 19 months to reach the same 50K milestone). Bonus points are that WP7 doesn’t constantly drop phone calls, and is still largely devoid of malware.

Apple and Google took operating systems they developed for cell phones and plopped them down on top of tablets. So wouldn’t it make sense for Microsoft to do the same thing?

Let’s begin with Hulu as the first example: because the Chrome browser supports Adobe Flash, Hulu was one of the first things I tried with my new Galaxy Tab, but playback attempts are met with the message “your platform is not supported”. I tried changing the UA string to Desktop and also tried using the Skyfire browser…nada. Flash is kinda-sorta supported on WP7, but not for something like Hulu. So regardless if you use Android or WP7, you can’t use Hulu. If you want to pay a monthly fee, you can watch Hulu on iOS…but you ain’t getting it for free.

Being that the Galaxy Tab is a 4G LTE tablet, I have a 4G LTE subscription in an area that provides 4G LTE service through Verizon Wireless. As you may already know, Verizon has an exclusive partnership with the National Football League to broadcast Sunday, Monday and Thursday Night Football to their wireless customers. This is poignantly advertised during the SNF intro: a leather-clad Faith Hill sings as a crowd of people are walking toward a football stadium entrance, and there is one smiling idiot who obviously prefers to remain outside the stadium and watch the game on a four inch screen.

As a bonus, if you are paying for 4G service there is no additional charge to watch SNF/MNF/TNF on your device. So one of the first things I did with my Galaxy Tab was to install NFL Mobile so I could watch MNF the day after Christmas…but it failed to log on. So on Monday afternoon I took my device to a Verizon Wireless store for some help, and was informed that the NFL Mobile service is only supported on their phones: tablets are blocked. “Gee, you paid well over $400 for a device and subscribed to 4G service? Too bad, it’s four inches or nothing, buddy. But thanks for giving us so much money!”

I love music. I like Pandora. But on Dec 6, someone at Pandora tweeted that they don’t even have plans to develop a WP7 app. But they do support all other mobile operating systems, and their app works fine on our iPad 2 and Galaxy Tab.

And thus, the epic realization: the mobile landscape is heavily fractured and significantly broken. And it was done on purpose. What works for some devices will not work or is not available for other devices. And even things we expect should work for certain devices doesn’t work.

And when something doesn’t work, what is it specifically that doesn’t work?

Content.

Content owners, such as television networks, record labels, movie studios, software companies, newspapers and magazines, etc have been making decisions on who gets what content and how they get it or consume it. And the content owners are making restrictive deals with content providers, probably for a decent chunk of change. And it’s been going on like this for years now.

You want this particular content? Then you need to buy this particular device and/or use this particular service with this particular application. But this device and/or service won’t be able to provide that other piece of particular content or application that you want, so choose your device based on your highest priorities and then go gripe to yourself about the other things that you want but can’t have. Or buy that second device.

Ask yourself this question: When was the last time you had this problem on a Windows machine?

Microsoft has been accused repeatedly of dropping the ball on tablets. In actuality, their competitors also have all dropped the mobile ball in one way or another, and Microsoft apparently wants to avoid falling into the same “why can’t I have this” trap with consumers in regards to tablets, a trap that would convince many to buy a competitor’s tablet.

And if web article comments and forum posts are any indication, a lot of people are getting fed up with the various “gotchas” when trying to select a device, or after having purchased a device. But beyond the capabilities of the device (or lack thereof) are the promises: some promises come very late after a device has been purchased, like a working microSD slot on the Motorola Xoom tablet. Other promises are reneged, like the ability to upgrade to ICS on a Galaxy Tab tablet.

Late next year Microsoft will release a version of their desktop OS that works with capacitive touch, has the sleek Metro UI, runs every app and game available at Best Buy, and…hey, Hulu works on a tablet! And this works! And that works! Now, why is it again that I would want this other tablet instead…?

As far as tablets are concerned, Microsoft has declared war. And not against simply Apple and Google…they declared war against everybody who have colluded to create closed ecosystems.

And they can't fight that war with their mobile OS.
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
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the tablet Windows OS is not going to run any app or game at best buy because its going to be on an ARM CPU and a mobile GPU which are no where near as powerful as Intel hardware. it's going to be specially compiled apps for the ARM hardware

what's tragically funny is MS had tested most of this tech years before the iphone came out.

dropbox, i was an alpha tester for a MS product that did the same thing.
tablets, Charlie Palmer's restaurant in Vegas was using tablets back around 2004 for a menu/wine app
windows CE dates back to the 1990's

biggest problem was the hardware tried to do too many things and didn't do anything good. RIM had killer email. iPhone came out and it had a killer web browser for a phone

between iOS and Android they have enough applications where you can access any content you want.
 
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Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
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Late next year Microsoft will release a version of their desktop OS that works with capacitive touch, has the sleek Metro UI, runs every app and game available at Best Buy, and…hey, Hulu works on a tablet! And this works! And that works! Now, why is it again that I would want this other tablet instead…?.

Are you saying ARM-powered W8 tablets are going to be able to play modern PC games?

Also, AFAIK Samsung never explicitly said the original Tab was getting ICS.

I personally am not a fan of the Metro UI. It looks slick, but after one day I started to get fed up with the OS because it took longer to get things done than I was used to with Android.
 

Slugbait

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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the tablet Windows OS is not going to run any app or game at best buy because its going to be on an ARM CPU and a mobile GPU which are no where near as powerful as Intel hardware.
You sound so sure. What, you think Intel is going to let x86 sit on the tablet sidelines? http://www.extremetech.com/computing/105189-intels-x86-android-smartphone-and-tablet-plans-exposed
Red Storm said:
Are you saying (x86)-powered W8 tablets are going to be able to play modern PC games?
Not exactly...they'll play, but I'm not expecting Crysis-capable enjoyment or anything like that. But there are lots of other software titles out there besides games.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
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But there are lots of other software titles out there besides games.

The only reason why I use Windows is because of games (actual games, not flash/mobile games). Everything else I can do with alternatives.

I don't expect Windows tablets to sell well because of the Windows name. I think people are very happy to not have Windows on their mobile devices.
 

Slugbait

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I don't expect Windows tablets to sell well because of the Windows name.
Considering the number of apps that will only install on Windows, I expect the name will help them to sell quite well. And I'm quite confident that a large number of software companies will be adding multi-touch capabilities and features to their existing products...Microsoft usually makes it a point to line them up ahead of schedule, since it's always been the apps that made Windows successful.
 

tdawg

Platinum Member
May 18, 2001
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I'll gladly take a full-fledged OS on a tablet; I'll get full web capabilities where Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, etc are fully functional and don't bar me for accessing their web service from a mobile device. I'll also be able to install windows programs that are useful instead of apps that duplicate web functionality because the tablet OS can't deliver a full web experience.

I'll also be happy that I will have a tablet OS that will be reconfigurable, where I can easily uninstall any manufacturer bloatware, where I'll have a full, legitimate file system, and where I can install any necessary video codecs.

There are many advantages to having a full OS that is easy to navigate by touch or by mouse and keyboard. If Windows 8 on a tablet isn't neutered from it's PC counterpart for some god-awful reason, I'll gladly give up my Transformer.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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So basically OP you think MS avoids tablets because it is too hard and competitive?

I agree.
 

arod

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2000
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You are right its more about downscaling the computer os to the desktop (vs the ios/android approach of upscaling the phone to tablet) but its not only about the content.

Both ios and android have only had success in devices with their phone os's and ms has only had success with their desktop os. It's natural for both to continue doing what they have traditionally done best.

I fully expect windows phone to go away after apollo and they will put the real version of windows on their phones (windows 9 or whatever it will be called). I also would not be surprised to see android put out on laptop/desktop computers with ics and future android versions and apple to do the same with ios (chrome os has already died and I see osx following suit).

I am personally very interested in a windows 8 tablet because it's a real os downscaled but they have to do it right (which we will not know until the final product is ready and released). They have to get the performance right as well as match battery life on android/ios tablets.
 
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runawayprisoner

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Apr 2, 2008
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...Late next year Microsoft will release a version of their desktop OS that works with capacitive touch, has the sleek Metro UI, runs every app and game available at Best Buy, and…hey, Hulu works on a tablet! And this works! And that works! Now, why is it again that I would want this other tablet instead…?

Well, if you're talking about Windows 7 x86 tablets, then yes, it fits your description. But it has horrible battery life, and it emits enough heat to fry eggs.

If you are talking about Windows 7 ARM tablets, then... no, it doesn't run every app and game available at Best Buy. In fact, it likely doesn't run any app that has ever been made for Windows. So that rules out Hulu as well.

Now why is it that you want a competing tablet (read: iPad), well, because you can watch Hulu on it, it literally has millions of apps, and all of the content providers are fawning over it, and all of that is happening... this year, not the next.
 

Slugbait

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Well, if you're talking about Windows 7 x86 tablets, then yes, it fits your description.
Windows 7 x86 tablets came out a long time ago. I'm talking about a future release of Windows that's scheduled to come out late next year.
If you are talking about Windows 7 ARM tablets, then...
Getting colder...you possibly skipped the part about capacitive touch, which Win7 cannot do.
Now why is it that you want a competing tablet (read: iPad), well, because you can watch Hulu on it, it literally has millions of apps...
According to Apple, they're nowhere near to having a quarter-million apps for iPad, much less "literally millions". http://www.apple.com/ipad/from-the-app-store/ It's probably gonna be a few more years before they hit the single-million mark.
and all of the content providers are fawning over it...
And you've just made my primary point: content. I get Hulu for free on my Windows machine...do you get Hulu for free on your iPad? I can't get it for free on my iPad.
 
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runawayprisoner

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Apr 2, 2008
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Windows 7 x86 tablets came out a long time ago. I'm talking about a future release of Windows that's scheduled to come out late next year.

Yeah, my bad. I meant to say Windows 8.

Getting colder...you possibly skipped the part about capacitive touch, which Win7 cannot do.

Actually, Windows 7 does support capacitive touchscreens. Look up the ASUS T91MT.

On the other hand, as per above, I meant to say Windows 8.

According to Apple, they're nowhere near to having a quarter-million apps for iPad, much less "literally millions". http://www.apple.com/ipad/from-the-app-store/ It's probably gonna be a few more years before they hit the single-million mark.

iPad also runs iPhone apps as well. While they might not be at 250,000 apps for iPad, you'd be lucky to even get a fraction of that number when Windows 8 ARM tablets come out.

And you've just made my primary point: content. I get Hulu for free on my Windows machine...do you get Hulu for free on your iPad? I can't get it for free on my iPad.

Yeah, I can get it for free on my iPad. I'd either use Splashtop streamer, or Cloud Browse. The downside to Splashtop is I need my own server running, but that's not a problem since I have a desktop computer sitting around doing nothing. Cloud Browse doesn't require a computer server but it's slow.

Splashtop is available on Android as well in case you want to check it out.
 

Slugbait

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Yeah, my bad. I meant to say Windows 8.
Oh. Right.
Actually, Windows 7 does support capacitive touchscreens. Look up the ASUS T91MT.
Ok, I looked it up. The Asus T91MT uses a resistive touchscreen, not capacitive.
iPad also runs iPhone apps as well. While they might not be at 250,000 apps for iPad, you'd be lucky to even get a fraction of that number when Windows 8 ARM tablets come out.
The fraction has already been accomplished, and with TWO digits. As pointed out in my original post, Marketplace has already surpassed 50,000 published applications.
Yeah, I can get it for free on my iPad. I'd either use Splashtop streamer, or Cloud Browse. The downside to Splashtop is I need my own server running, but that's not a problem since I have a desktop computer sitting around doing nothing.
Wow. Simplicity. Elegance. Intuitiveness. Superior user experience. Wondering why more people don't do this. Personally, I probably wouldn't open the ports necessary to remote into my home network while on the go.
Cloud Browse doesn't require a computer server but it's slow.
You might think it's slow, but that's only because it doesn't work...AlwaysOn even sez so on their support page at http://www.alwaysontechnologies.com/support/
Why doesn’t Hulu work?

Unfortunately, Hulu is very aggressive in blocking viewers. They block based on the type of browser or the IP or the OS version. We won’t make changes to our service based around their blocking since they can change their blocking at anytime.
 

Slugbait

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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BTW, how do you know Win8 on a tablet has horrible battery life, and emits enough heat to fry eggs? Did you install the dev preview on your tablet, or read a review of someone who did?
 

lothar

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Jan 5, 2000
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BTW, how do you know Win8 on a tablet has horrible battery life, and emits enough heat to fry eggs? Did you install the dev preview on your tablet, or read a review of someone who did?
I was just about about to ask this same question. Maybe he's one of those people that thinks Intel will just stick a SandyBridge processor in there and be done with?
Is he completely oblivious that Intel is developing Medfield, along with it's 22nm successor?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5262/...titive-medfield-x86-android-power-performance
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/intel...BzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25zBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
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ivy bridge CPU's will run $200 or so. there is no way you can sell a top end tablet for $500 when the CPU alone is $200l. Or even $100. $499 ipad 2 the bill of materials is $220 or $250. and that's before licensing/patent costs, development and other costs.

this is the same story as 40 years ago. Intel was the cheap and crappy CPU's for years which is why they were used in PC's. Sun and others refused to compete because they had higher margins. Today Intel and MS are trying to hang on to their margins while ARM based companies are selling cheaper hardware that does 90% of what a PC does

Intel should be shipping medfield first on their most advanced manufacturing processes, but since the financial software says the profits per CPU are lower they aren't doing it. the management at MS are just as dumb as the ones at intel
 
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swanysto

Golden Member
May 8, 2005
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If it actually can do what they say it can, I would be very excited. My office runs software that only runs on windows. It would be nice to have on a tab. Might actually give me reason to get a tab. I finally used the gf's iPad this past weekend, after a couple months of her owning it, to check the score of a game that wasn't televised. I forgot my phone downstairs and was too lazy to go get it, thus, why I haven't dropped money on a tab yet.
 

kubani1

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Oct 23, 2010
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www.promotingcrap.com
Honestly, I don't want Windows to dominate the tablet market, I quite enjoy the fact that Windows doesn't dominate the whole computer industry, I like the fact that Windows phone hasn't really taken off, i like the fact that it is there, but only as the distant 3rd. Same I hope will be true of tablets, I want it to do enough to keep everyone on their toes, but truthfully I don't want them to do all that well.

That said, if they create something heads and tails above everyone else, I would then get a Windows tablet, I just hope android and apple stay ahead of Windows.
 

runawayprisoner

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Apr 2, 2008
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Ok, I looked it up. The Asus T91MT uses a resistive touchscreen, not capacitive.

My bad. Try this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb_GMAs-C2Y

But point is... Windows 7 can support capacitive touch screens just fine.

The fraction has already been accomplished, and with TWO digits. As pointed out in my original post, Marketplace has already surpassed 50,000 published applications.

That's for Windows Phone 7, not for Windows 8. But please feel free to point out to me where Microsoft stated that Windows Phone 7 apps would run on Windows 8.

Wow. Simplicity. Elegance. Intuitiveness. Superior user experience. Wondering why more people don't do this. Personally, I probably wouldn't open the ports necessary to remote into my home network while on the go.

Then pay for Hulu Plus. That's the only method. You can try complaining to Hulu, too, but it's by design that they don't allow Hulu on anything that they can't earn money on. On desktops, Hulu runs on Flash so that they can earn money throwing ads at viewers. Flash on mobile sucks, so their only choice is Hulu Plus.

In any case, it's not really a problem with iOS or Android. Also do consider that only x86 Windows 8 tablets would have access to Flash, and last I heard, Microsoft is blocking it from IE by default, so you'll have to resort to other browsers.

You might think it's slow, but that's only because it doesn't work...AlwaysOn even sez so on their support page at http://www.alwaysontechnologies.com/support/

You can bypass it. But that makes it slow. That's the simpler version.

BTW, how do you know Win8 on a tablet has horrible battery life, and emits enough heat to fry eggs? Did you install the dev preview on your tablet, or read a review of someone who did?

Yep. Got it on an HP Slate 500.

Edit: here, not my video, but you can see how it runs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq4J_jDFEZ8

I got the latest EMGD to work, so that sweetened it up a little bit. Default Win 7 driver support for GMA 500 totally sucked and Intel already declared it EOL, which didn't help at all.

I was just about about to ask this same question. Maybe he's one of those people that thinks Intel will just stick a SandyBridge processor in there and be done with?
Is he completely oblivious that Intel is developing Medfield, along with it's 22nm successor?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5262/...titive-medfield-x86-android-power-performance
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/intel...BzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25zBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3

Regardless of what Intel is offering, their power consumption is just too high for comfort. Read about Medfield again. It consumes 2.6W when idle. Just the CPU. In contrast, compare that to 0.5W under load or 1W worst case scenario (when everything is stressed to its max) of the most power hungry ARM SoC on the market.

Would heat become an issue? Yes. With a low-power SoC, tablets like the iPad and Galaxy Tab are already emitting some heat. Quadruple that under idle and you'll see just how hot x86 can be... while it's just sitting on the desktop.

Intel actually had a viable solution with the Intel Z 500 and then Z 600 series, but for some bizarre reason, they dropped the ball, very hard, on graphics drivers support for those things. And now Z 600 can only be found on niche devices made by no-name companies, or limited production in a factory somewhere in Japan...

If you think Intel has a chance, you obviously haven't experienced the nightmare they caused with the Atom Z CPUs...
 
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Slugbait

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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this is the same story as 40 years ago. Intel was the cheap and crappy CPU's for years which is why they were used in PC's.
AFAIK, Intel was the only CPU that could be utilized for microcomputers 40 years ago...Motorola released their first proc in '74, and in fact, priced their procs the same as Intel's. In addition, Intel's primary focus and product back then was DRAM...they didn't switch their focus to microprocessors until the mid-80's.
Sun and others refused to compete because they had higher margins.
Sun didn't even exist until 1982, so they completely missed the microcomputer birthing. They didn't introduce SPARC until 1987, and the RISC architecture wasn't designed for microcomputers.

DEC founder Ken Olsen said, "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home." Naturally, they didn't bother to design a proc for microcomputers, either.

These companies never refused to compete with Intel, simply because they were in a completely different market. So it certainly had absolutely nothing to do with margins.
Today Intel and MS are trying to hang on to their margins while ARM based companies are selling cheaper hardware that does 90% of what a PC does
Well, the resulting devices based on that cheaper hardware don't do 90% of what my PC does...yet. And MS has no margin in hardware.
Intel should be shipping medfield first on their most advanced manufacturing processes, but since the financial software says the profits per CPU are lower they aren't doing it.
There's already a Medfield-based dev-version tablet, and current scuttlebutt is that Medfield tablets will go on sale in the first quarter. LG is introducing their Medfield smartphone at CES. Where are you getting your information?
the management at MS are just as dumb as the ones at intel
This was my point in the initial post: dropping WP7 onto tablets would have resulted in the same "why can't I have this" trap that impacts iOS and Android users. That would have been dumb. But by avoiding this trap, they aren't nearly as dumb as you think.
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
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and what about the 1990's when PC really took off? no one was competing with Wintel. everyone was trying to sell expensive products like workstations. i never saw SPARC based computers at CompUSA. and that's the point, Wintel started out cheap and moved up. it's an old business story.

ARM based devices are following the same path. they are starting out cheaper and weaker than the prevelant tech and will move up. Intel/MS take a big percentage of the revenue of your average PC these days. At some point in the near future ARM will become powerful enough to be used as a desktop/laptop for most tasks but it will offer a higher profit margin and a lot of OEM's will start to dump Intel. ARM may not be powerful enough to pair up with 2 giant graphics cards but most people don't care. they want a box to do some simple tasks

it's a common business strategy to take over a market by starting at the bottom and working your way up the profit margin chain. intel and microsoft aren't the only ones to have done it. IBM lost the mainframe business to cheap deskstops and servers and now we are back where we started
 
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Slugbait

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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My bad. Try this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb_GMAs-C2Y

But point is... Windows 7 can support capacitive touch screens just fine.
Read a review on that device...gesturing is still in resistive style, not capacitive. Touch is what makes iPad "magical"...Win7 doesn't support it.
That's for Windows Phone 7, not for Windows 8. But please feel free to point out to me where Microsoft stated that Windows Phone 7 apps would run on Windows 8.
Now you're in NDA territory...the OS isn't even going to be released for almost another year. But some might say that nVidia's CEO almost broke that NDA: http://www.winrumors.com/nvidia-ceo-claims-windows-phone-7-apps-will-run-on-windows-8/
Then pay for Hulu Plus.
It seems that you are still paying absolutely no attention to the original post
...it's by design that they don't allow Hulu on anything that they can't earn money on. On desktops, Hulu runs on Flash so that they can earn money throwing ads at viewers.
One of the biggest complaints about Hulu Plus is that ads are still thrown at viewers. You are aware of this, right?
Also do consider that only x86 Windows 8 tablets would have access to Flash
No need to consider that for now, thanks. Here's a video of Flash running on an ARM Windows 8 tablet: http://www.smartergeek.info/2011/09/windows-8-arm-tablets-will-run-adobe-flash/
and last I heard, Microsoft is blocking it from IE by default, so you'll have to resort to other browsers.
According to the above video, you can get Flash working on IE for now...that may change. But with IE's overall share being only 53%, it's a reasonable assumption that some people will install third-party browsers on their Win8 tablets.
You can bypass it. But that makes it slow. That's the simpler version.
Ya know, I did quite a bit of searching, and couldn't even find a hint on whatever "bypass" you are talking about.
Yep. Got it on an HP Slate 500.
Well, now you can't blame Win8 for battery life...the Slate was known well over a year ago to have the worst battery life of all tablets: http://www.pcworld.com/article/208543/tablet_battle_hp_slate_vs_ipad_vs_galaxy_tab_vs_playbook.html. I'll bet it fries eggs with Win7, too.
If you think Intel has a chance, you obviously haven't experienced the nightmare they caused with the Atom Z CPUs...
You're right, I haven't experienced Atom. However, anyone not using AMD suffered the nightmare known as Prescott...then the Core2 was released, all was forgiven, and most enthusiasts abandoned AMD.

So yeah...I think they have a chance. Hell, they've done it before...
 

Slugbait

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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and what about the 1990's when PC really took off? no one was competing with Wintel.
IBM, TI, Cyrix and AMD all made x86 procs back then. In fact, one of the first DOS/Windows machines I assembled from scratch was based around an IBM 486SLC/66. Intel sued Cyrix and AMD for using the numbers 386 and 486, claiming "intellectual property"...AMD ended up being granted rights to relevant Intel patents in the settlement in '95.

My first real machine had PC-DOS (with Win3.0). And there was OS/2, Dr. DOS, etc.

There was actually quite a bit of competition back then.
i never saw SPARC based computers at CompUSA. and that's the point,
They sold direct to an exclusive clientele...there is no point.
At some point in the near future ARM will become powerful enough to be used as a desktop/laptop for most tasks but it will offer a higher profit margin and a lot of OEM's will start to dump Intel.
To beat Intel, they will need to slash their profit margins. AMD has been doing this for years. Thoughout much of that time, there was a lot of talk about OEMs dumping Intel because of AMD's aggressive pricing...but it never happened.
IBM lost the mainframe business to cheap deskstops and servers and now we are back where we started
IBM's mainframe business never went away. System z was introduced in 2003, still going strong. http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/index.html