- Aug 15, 2000
- 7,464
- 1
- 76
I am truly sorry Intel fans and even more so if you own stock!!!!!
- Thread starter Hamburgerpimp
- Start date
<< Don't say I didn't warn you folks about this back in September, I did. >>
Lol, nothing lik an "I told you so".
I have only been scanning that article for 30 seconds and it is already worth a smirk. Look:
"Intel needs to heavily beef up the L1 cache size, add the missing L3 cache, add more decoders, raise the transfer rate from the trace cache to the core, lower the cost of shift operations, and add additional FPU and MMX execution units. Once these changes are made, and only then, will the Pentium 4 begin to even be a threat to its own Pentium III and Pentium III Xeon processors and be a viable contender for the speed crown currently held by the AMD Athlon.
Now if you know about the P4, you'll know it has 40,000,000 transistors already. Quite - a - lot - of - that - is - in - the - cache - already. Duh. OK, you try marketing a 60,000,000 transistor chip. Good luck to ya.
"Intel needs to heavily beef up the L1 cache size, add the missing L3 cache, add more decoders, raise the transfer rate from the trace cache to the core, lower the cost of shift operations, and add additional FPU and MMX execution units. Once these changes are made, and only then, will the Pentium 4 begin to even be a threat to its own Pentium III and Pentium III Xeon processors and be a viable contender for the speed crown currently held by the AMD Athlon.
Now if you know about the P4, you'll know it has 40,000,000 transistors already. Quite - a - lot - of - that - is - in - the - cache - already. Duh. OK, you try marketing a 60,000,000 transistor chip. Good luck to ya.
<< The only thing that is superior is the price. I urge all computer consumers to BOYCOTT THE PENTIUM 4 and BOYCOTT ALL INTEL PRODUCTS >>
hrmm... thats a bit childish... now I dont like the p4 either but that is going a bit too far. I do believe the p4 has its place and if someone gave one to me Id be more than happy to use it... but i dont think that will ever happen
. Anyway, even to me, and AMD fan, that article is way too biased, IMHO anyway.I can't remeber what the cache sizes for the "Pee For" is?
Is it 64K L1 and 256K L2?
Truely a crappy biased Article written by someone who doens't know as much as they think they do.
Missing L3 cache? hehehehehe
Is it 64K L1 and 256K L2?
Truely a crappy biased Article written by someone who doens't know as much as they think they do.
Missing L3 cache? hehehehehe
Yeah! Down with Intel so AMD can take over and have no competion and charge $500 for a Duron 700! Come on people, competion is good for us! Sofar the P4 suck, so what, it's good for AMD. If you think Intel won't make a competitive cpu again you are on crack!
In other words, Intel succeeded so well at producing a low cost version of the Pentium II, that it not only put the AMD K6 to shame, it also killed off the Pentium II and was forced to fraudulently remarket the chip as the Pentium III! For all intents and purposes, the Pentium II, the Celeron, and the Pentium III are ONE AND THE SAME CHIP. They're based on the same basic P6 architecture, with only things like clock speed and cache size to differentiate the chips. This is why we tell you not to purchase a Pentium II or Pentium III based system. If you must buy Intel, buy a Celeron. Same chip, lower cost.
P3 & Celeron are not the same CPU... if that were so, a 600 Celeron would perform better then a 600 P3 but thats not the case here. Anyway there are flaws in the statement but still.. Intel = Expensive, AMD = Not as expensive
P3 & Celeron are not the same CPU... if that were so, a 600 Celeron would perform better then a 600 P3 but thats not the case here. Anyway there are flaws in the statement but still.. Intel = Expensive, AMD = Not as expensive
forcesho-
The reason that the 600p3 and 600celeron2 dont perform equaly is not because of differences in the chip itself... in part its due to the fact that the celeron2 runs on a 66mhz bus but thats not it. When Intel cut the l2 cache on the p3 in half they also chopped the associativity (and latency?). Anyway, they are essentially the same chip but one is crippled on purpose.
His arguments about the p2/celeron1/celeron2/p3 katmai/p3 cumine being the same is, well, wrong. There have been many advances to the p6 core since it was introcued. First of all is the die shrinks and the redesign of the core itself in order to make it smaller (cC0 stepping). Also the addition of ondie cache and other little tweaks to make give it a higher IPC. Anyway, its the same core but by far not the same chip.
The reason that the 600p3 and 600celeron2 dont perform equaly is not because of differences in the chip itself... in part its due to the fact that the celeron2 runs on a 66mhz bus but thats not it. When Intel cut the l2 cache on the p3 in half they also chopped the associativity (and latency?). Anyway, they are essentially the same chip but one is crippled on purpose.
His arguments about the p2/celeron1/celeron2/p3 katmai/p3 cumine being the same is, well, wrong. There have been many advances to the p6 core since it was introcued. First of all is the die shrinks and the redesign of the core itself in order to make it smaller (cC0 stepping). Also the addition of ondie cache and other little tweaks to make give it a higher IPC. Anyway, its the same core but by far not the same chip.
Dulanic
Diamond Member
- Oct 27, 2000
- 9,966
- 590
- 136
<< P3 & Celeron are not the same CPU... if that were so, a 600 Celeron would perform better then a 600 P3 but thats not the case here. Anyway there are flaws in the statement but still.. Intel = Expensive, AMD = Not as expensive. >>
Actually they are.... Just the Celeron runs slower bus speed and has a crippled cache. Kinda of like the Duron is a T-Bird with less L2 cache.
<< Missing L3 cache? hehehehehe >>
You need to read the whole article buddy, I did. And Intel did originally plan on a 1MB L3 cache on the P4.
Why don't you guys take the SOL test and get a life they going to make the chips where they good or bad.Intel or AMD will sell their life to the devil to get a buck.You say you a AMD man!! you will go with what chip cost less and overclocks the highest;were it be Intel or AMD.I bet you guys take your women out to Burger king for a high class dinner,and maybe try to overclock the crash register while you at it LOL.
- Aug 15, 2000
- 7,464
- 1
- 76
The whole point of the flippin' article was that the P4 was introduced solely under marketing pressure from Intel themselves as well as Dell and Gateway. AMD took the back seat for years to introduce the Athlon as truly a next generation processor. Intel refuses to do this and in the meantime will mislead the general public anyway they can.
One of my good friends went to work for Intel out of college in 1991. As with most companies as well as Intel, it is marketing first and engineering second!! Hence, all the Intel commercials on TV with the guys in colorful suits!!!!
One of my good friends went to work for Intel out of college in 1991. As with most companies as well as Intel, it is marketing first and engineering second!! Hence, all the Intel commercials on TV with the guys in colorful suits!!!!
Dulanic
Diamond Member
- Oct 27, 2000
- 9,966
- 590
- 136
<< Why don't you guys take the SOL test and get a life they going to make the chips where they good or bad.Intel or AMD will sell their life to the devil to get a buck.You say you a AMD man!! you will go with what chip cost less and overclocks the highest;were it be Intel or AMD.I bet you guys take your women out to Burger king for a high class dinner,and maybe try to overclock the crash register while you at it LOL. >>
While I dont understand your lame attempts at humor or your extremely poor english abilities, this is what I did get out of it.
-AMD will do anything to make a buck.
Suprising since Intel is the one charging so much more for CPUs that perform the same or worse then AMD.
-We would buy Intel if it made lower priced better CPUs.
Damn right I would. Im a AMD fan, but if Intel was the one selling lower priced better CPUs Id sure as hell buy em.
As for the rest of your "statement", well its gibberish. I believe you need to mature and finish 4th grade.
Well, the guy does make some good points regarding shifts/rotates. It was not the best decision on Intel's part. My next processor will probably be an AMD because the P4 is slower in RC5. I wonder if it will take 3-5 years before we can expect the P5's :disgust:
Dulanic:
Mature and finish fourth grade? That's a little harsh, chastizing someone over their 'processor' choice.
As a whole, I don't understand why people are so picky over this whole processor issue. Some people buy jaguar's and some people buy Chevrolet's. The only people I see in real life arguing over cars is rednecks who argue whether FORD or CHEVY is better. Those of you who argue over processors, and which is better, are the rednecks of the internet. You're no better than those people. I mean seriously, what does it matter if Intel costs a little more (or in some cases, a lot more) than AMD. If people are happy with their Intel chip, regardless of what they paid, who are you to question their choice? They spent THEIR money, and last time I checked, spending money was a PERSONAL choice. Besides, the more money that goes into the US economy, the better, so why are we all bitching when people spend $500 on a processor, when they could have spent $200 on the same AMD? Let them spend their money as they choose. If someone asks which processor they should buy, this is the only time I see a time for this conversation to even be had. Regardless of all this, fighting should never ensue over CPU opinions.
divinemartyr
Mature and finish fourth grade? That's a little harsh, chastizing someone over their 'processor' choice.
As a whole, I don't understand why people are so picky over this whole processor issue. Some people buy jaguar's and some people buy Chevrolet's. The only people I see in real life arguing over cars is rednecks who argue whether FORD or CHEVY is better. Those of you who argue over processors, and which is better, are the rednecks of the internet. You're no better than those people. I mean seriously, what does it matter if Intel costs a little more (or in some cases, a lot more) than AMD. If people are happy with their Intel chip, regardless of what they paid, who are you to question their choice? They spent THEIR money, and last time I checked, spending money was a PERSONAL choice. Besides, the more money that goes into the US economy, the better, so why are we all bitching when people spend $500 on a processor, when they could have spent $200 on the same AMD? Let them spend their money as they choose. If someone asks which processor they should buy, this is the only time I see a time for this conversation to even be had. Regardless of all this, fighting should never ensue over CPU opinions.
divinemartyr
<< P3 & Celeron are not the same CPU... if that were so, a 600 Celeron would perform better then a 600 P3 but thats not the case here. Anyway there are flaws in the statement but still.. Intel = Expensive, AMD = Not as expensive. >>
Actually they are.... Just the Celeron runs slower bus speed and has a crippled cache. Kinda of like the Duron is a T-Bird with less L2 cache.
----
Celeron and P2 maybe similar but no way Celeron is similar to a P3, maybe a Celeron II is similar to a P3..
Celeron lacks SIMD ops within CPU so unless there are hidden SIMD ops in a Celeron, the two cpu are different, even if you bump a Celeron to 133FSB, there is no way a Celeron would perform like a P3..
He's saying you can buy a celeron that will perform the same as a P3. So if that were true, a celeron/celeronII can crank out the same frame rate as a P3 @ the same speed ?
Maybe I been reading these benchmarks wrong but a it seems that a Celeron II oc-ed to 900 is as fast as a P3 650
Anyway, luckily I'm not into P4, they really did take that back seat in giving it a 8k L1 cache... but the article is right, how can Intel not learn the "cache" requirement ?!?!?
Actually they are.... Just the Celeron runs slower bus speed and has a crippled cache. Kinda of like the Duron is a T-Bird with less L2 cache.
----
Celeron and P2 maybe similar but no way Celeron is similar to a P3, maybe a Celeron II is similar to a P3..
Celeron lacks SIMD ops within CPU so unless there are hidden SIMD ops in a Celeron, the two cpu are different, even if you bump a Celeron to 133FSB, there is no way a Celeron would perform like a P3..
He's saying you can buy a celeron that will perform the same as a P3. So if that were true, a celeron/celeronII can crank out the same frame rate as a P3 @ the same speed ?
Maybe I been reading these benchmarks wrong but a it seems that a Celeron II oc-ed to 900 is as fast as a P3 650
Anyway, luckily I'm not into P4, they really did take that back seat in giving it a 8k L1 cache... but the article is right, how can Intel not learn the "cache" requirement ?!?!?
As a whole, I don't understand why people are so picky over this whole processor issue. Some people buy jaguar's and some people buy Chevrolet's. The only people I see in real life arguing over cars is rednecks who argue whether FORD or CHEVY is better.
---
Yeah, 80mph on any car is 80mph, how can 1 car do 80mph be faster than the other doing 80mph .. only difference maybe is acceleration, torque, etc.. speed are similar but not really...
The only thing I really care about the cpu is wether the mobo (chipset) is gonna give me trouble or not..
---
Yeah, 80mph on any car is 80mph, how can 1 car do 80mph be faster than the other doing 80mph .. only difference maybe is acceleration, torque, etc.. speed are similar but not really...
The only thing I really care about the cpu is wether the mobo (chipset) is gonna give me trouble or not..
68 Plymouth Satellite 440..man I loved this car
83 Toyota Supra 5M-GE..this was a great car as well, very quick and nimble
87 Toyota Supra 7M-GE..she was by far my favorite, style, speed, acceleration..ahh the memories
today..93 S10 Blazer 4.3 Vortec..well, its practicle
83 Toyota Supra 5M-GE..this was a great car as well, very quick and nimble
87 Toyota Supra 7M-GE..she was by far my favorite, style, speed, acceleration..ahh the memories
today..93 S10 Blazer 4.3 Vortec..well, its practicle
formulav8
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2000
- 7,004
- 522
- 126
Intel does lie to the public. They market that mhz is all that matters. Sure the P4 might do 2ghz but look at how weak it is. Sad when a p3 clock for clock kills a P4. I'm also sick of hearing them say that it is a investment for the future. If that is the case wait to buy it in the future. Intel is going to try anything it can to sell the P4 even if it means lieing and misleading the public.
Ach. Give me a break.
The P4 is nothing but a multimedia/gaming chip. And really, how many of us can tell the difference between a 1 GHz and a 1.2 GHz chip when surfing the web or writing a paper.
Faster hardrives damit! Thats what I've been saying all along!
The P4 is nothing but a multimedia/gaming chip. And really, how many of us can tell the difference between a 1 GHz and a 1.2 GHz chip when surfing the web or writing a paper.
Faster hardrives damit! Thats what I've been saying all along!
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