I am now convinced that there is no God

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: ConantheBarbarian

Originally posted by: optoman
My poor grandmother recently had her third stroke. This one has basically paralyzed the left side of her body and she can only eat food that is the consistancy of honey. She can't even drink water. She was a hard working woman who always thought she would get better after her second stroke at age ~65, she is now 82. She thought she might even return to work but it never happened. She continued to go to church until she couldn't walk anymore and then she had my mom take her whenever she had time. To this day my grandmother prays but God shows her no mercy. I cry just thinking about my loving grandmother and the hell she has gone through her whole life.

If there was a God he wouldn't be so cruel to her. My grandmother has basically regressed to an infant state and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

Also, my wife is a nurse and there is a 4 year old boy on her floor who just underwent his second bone marrow transplant. If you don't know, they are very painful. Probably one of the most painful things you could have done to you short of torture. This little boy is not going to make it and has spent most of his life in the hospital. Where the f&sk is God with this one?

I hope every goes to heaven but everyday I believe less and less in God.

Edit: I am not trying to start a flame war, just trying to figure out what I believe.

Learn how to read arabic and read the Quran and read it to her, both of your hearts and eyes will be awaken and beg the Creator for forgiveness. The Creator is All Wise and All Knowing. PM for some good religious readings if you are interested.

You've gotta be kidding to be Trolling like this. Crawl back under your Quran and stop breathing.

 

[dabuddha]

I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. I know exactly how you feel because my grandmother had a stroke in 1990 and didn't pass away till sept 10, 2000. She was completely bedridden because her whole right side was paralyzed. She couldn't speak anymore as well.

But what I don't understand is why people assume God had anything to do with it. I personally believe he doesn't do anything to help or hurt us. He just is. But then again, my beliefs are way out of whack from my religion 🙂

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: optoman
My poor grandmother recently had her third stroke. This one has basically paralyzed the left side of her body and she can only eat food that is the consistancy of honey. She can't even drink water. She was a hard working woman who always thought she would get better after her second stroke at age ~65, she is now 82. She thought she might even return to work but it never happened. She continued to go to church until she couldn't walk anymore and then she had my mom take her whenever she had time. To this day my grandmother prays but God shows her no mercy. I cry just thinking about my loving grandmother and the hell she has gone through her whole life.

If there was a God he wouldn't be so cruel to her. My grandmother has basically regressed to an infant state and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

Also, my wife is a nurse and there is a 4 year old boy on her floor who just underwent his second bone marrow transplant. If you don't know, they are very painful. Probably one of the most painful things you could have done to you short of torture. This little boy is not going to make it and has spent most of his life in the hospital. Where the f&sk is God with this one?

I hope every goes to heaven but everyday I believe less and less in God.

Edit: I am not trying to start a flame war, just trying to figure out what I believe.

Since bad things regularly happen to everybody no matter if they pray, go to church, temple, mosque, etc, or believe in whatever. I never did understand why people who believe in a god would think it\he\she\they care(s) about their well being.

 

[oniq]

If a god truely existed, the creator of the universe, of all living things, of us.. it would be so much more intelligent than us. It would not think anything like us, nor any other creature.

 

[gordy]

simply, one of faith knows that Satan has rule over earth and tempts man at his weakest and weakness to shy from God every moment of our existence, Satan's whole existence is to have all of man deny God... why does God allow Satan this? rule over earth? man was given free will and chose to eat the fruit of The Tree of Good and Evil... those of faith know of the power struggle of good and evil

our finite mortal minds know only of a beginning and an end, so an 'always was, are, and will be' is incomprehensible without faith, similarly look at the vastness of space and the difiiculties of understanding there's no edge, border or wall

 

[skace]

Nothing in life is fair. Religions are flawed. God and an afterplace are the unproveable hope of those who had it rough looking for their 'payback' or those who fear death. The only thing you can do is live life to the fullest and appreciate what you have. I feel bad for your grandmother, I recently lost both my grandmothers one after another. But what can you do? You can only try and make their last days more memorable. That is the only thing within your power.

Stay strong, be there for her, and remember that someday you will be there too, on your deathbed. So make the most of your life.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: gordy
simply, one of faith knows that Satan has rule over earth and tempts man at his weakest and weakness to shy from God every moment of our existence, Satan's whole existence is to have all of man deny God... why does God allow Satan this? rule over earth? man was given free will and chose to eat the fruit of The Tree of Good and Evil... those of faith know of the power struggle of good and evil our finite mortal minds know only of a beginning and an end, so an 'always was, are, and will be' is incomprehensible without faith, similarly look at the vastness of space and the difiiculties of understanding there's no edge, border or wall

"Satan" is a Jewish fairy tale.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal
There are reasons for everything. Almost EVERYONE at one point in their life when things aren't going well or when someone they love dearly gets hurt or dies questions God. They question why he would let such painful things happen. I don't have an answer for you but I know that God does things for a reason. Just know that your grandma will be taken cared of. She loves the lord and she knows what the lord has in store for her. Once she makes that final trek to the heavens she will no longer suffer. She will feel like she is 18 years old again. She'll be able to run with the wind, do whatever she may please in heaven. Believe me God has reasons for everything even if it hurts you. I'll pray for your grandma. God never gives things that people can't handle. He'll never over-burden anyone with things that he knows they won't be able to handle. He has something in store for your grandma and she will be ok. God bless you.

Also, remember, God gave his ONLY son for our sins. He gave his ONLY son for us. Like someone said earlier, your granda has such great will power to keep the faith even though so much bad has happend to her. She will be in heaven my friend. She will make it to where there is no more hurt, sorrow, pain, she'll be A-OK! Just like someone said earlier, make her life happy, make her laugh, make her smile, do what you can while she is still here.

:heart:

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal

Also, remember, God gave his ONLY son for our sins. He gave his ONLY son for us.

So we aren't all God's children, but just his slaves? (follow me, or else...)

Thanks for clearing that one up!

Besides, not like he had so much of an emotional tie to someone he created by snapping his fingers, didn't bother raising himself, and tortured on the way to the cross. If you believe it was indeed God's son in the first place.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: gordy
simply, one of faith knows that Satan has rule over earth and tempts man at his weakest and weakness to shy from God every moment of our existence, Satan's whole existence is to have all of man deny God... why does God allow Satan this? rule over earth? man was given free will and chose to eat the fruit of The Tree of Good and Evil... those of faith know of the power struggle of good and evil our finite mortal minds know only of a beginning and an end, so an 'always was, are, and will be' is incomprehensible without faith, similarly look at the vastness of space and the difiiculties of understanding there's no edge, border or wall

"Satan" is a Jewish fairy tale.

He's quite correct. And if you're Catholic.. ah, don't even get me started on all the stuff they've made up for the "good" of the Church.

 

[Gunslinger08]

The argument that one man chose to eat from the Tree and therefore all men must suffer the consequences later just doesn't seem that fair and just to me.

If you equate it to slavery, white Americans should be paying billions of dollars to Africans every year for oppression that took place 150 to 300 years ago. We did not choose the path of our ancestors, yet we are still punished for it.

Don't try to use the argument that we are all born with Original Sin. The idea was created long after the Bible had been written, and put in place to have another layer of control over the faithful.

 

[dmcowen674]

🙁

 

[Demosthenes]

IMO, there is very certainly some sort of god watching over the world.... I personally had a little experience... a drunk driver ran a red light at 9:30PM on a friday night, going 100+ in a 40mph zone, and slammed right into the side of my friend's blazer, with me in the basket (sans seatbelt) - I went out the side window face first and slammed into the concrete face first - the first guys on the scene thought I was dead, and I only lived because of the miraculous work of the paramedics and doctors (and maybe a little touch from god?) who spent nearly 20 hours operating me over the next 3 days.. I spent 6 weeks in the hospital and came out without any permanent brain damage *quite contrary to what the neuro-pyschologists were predicting*... honestly I'm not sure if personal stories are the best scientific way to determine whether or not there is indeed a god, but if you wanna use em then how's that for one?

 

[her209]

God is teh sux.

 

[classy]

So you blame God? How does God always get the bad rap? How about blaming the Devil?

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: optoman

I am questioning my belief in God, not anyone else's. I have just seen to many good people get the shaft in their lives and I have seen the worst people have wonderful lives. Everything that I was taught about God in my religion is falling apart. I have more of a scientific approach to things so I think it makes it even harder to rationalize the exsistance of God. My grandmother believed her whole life that God would take care of her but he has failed misserably in my eyes. I don't want her to go but seeing her in the state she is makes my blood boil.

Never think of science as a moral system. It's not and it never will be. Science is simply a method for discovering the natural world, nothing more. Science is not and will never be the moral support system religion is. Truth be told science is still affected by human judgement, prejudices and errors. Science is not infallible because it's just another institution run by people and human judgement.

I'm at a similar crossroad myself but opposite direction. I'm tired of screwing up in my life and I realize now, that it's because I don't have true moral guidance in my life. Years of hanging around and being influenced by the wrong people has really caused me to make many mistakes in my life and I want it to stop. That's not to say that I'm a believer now, but I realize the value of religion now.

I hate to say this, but you probably know that your grandmother won't recover. I hope though that she doesn't suffer too much more in her time left with us.

 

[Pliablemoose]

When I was in my 20's I was in the midst of a lapse of faith (I usually am) someone recommended the book "When Bad things Happen to good People" read it, it made me so mad I tore the book to shreds.

The best answer I can come up with is that god, (if there is one) feels we can learn by the suffering of others & perhaps grow spiritually through it.

I really don't know, I've seen many many wasted lives & senseless deaths it's hard for me to keep the faith 24/7.

My uncle told me one of the things I keep in mind, wether or not there is a god, @ least folks who go to church etc try to do good, and that's something.

Am very sorry to hear about your grandma.

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: optoman

I hope every goes to heaven but everyday I believe less and less in God.

God is not Santa Claus.

I think you had an unfortunate misunderstanding of God to begin with.

My condolences to you and your family.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My uncle told me one of the things I keep in mind, wether or not there is a god, @ least folks who go to church etc try to do good, and that's something.

That should NEVER be enough. YOu could try all your life and never get anything done.

The key is to DO SOMETHING.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: classy
So you blame God? How does God always get the bad rap? How about blaming the Devil?

So if a gangmember beats you up and robs you, and a cop sits there smiling without lifting a finger to help you, then tells you he'll lock you up with the rest of the gang if you do anything against his wishes, you think he's the good guy?

God is allpowerful right? So he doesn't care enough to act, he hates us, or he's a sadist?

 

[ed21x]

To all the people flaming and trying to start a religious debate, STFU!!

This is neither the time, place, nor context when a member here can really use our support and condolences in going through such a tough time. Man, I'm hardly religious, but the militant zealousness of the anti-religious crowd here are some of the most insensitive, mocking, arrogant, detached people i've ever seen.

Optoman, I'm sorry for what has happened... may the support of your family and friends bring strength to you and those around you.

 

[Tab]

I was convinced by 9/11. 'nuff said well, almost. I'll disagree with him for sure, I've got no reason to goto church and be be filled spirtually with alll the crap going on in the world. I would rather go kill those fsvkers who where responsible.

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: ed21x
To all the people flaming and trying to start a religious debate, STFU!!

This is neither the time, place, nor context when a member here can really use our support and condolences in going through such a tough time. Man, I'm hardly religious, but the militant zealousness of the anti-religious crowd here are some of the most insensitive, mocking, arrogant, detached people i've ever seen.

Optoman, I'm sorry for what has happened... may the support of your family and friends bring strength to you and those around you.

It takes all kinds my friend, it's not your place to tell people to STFU. This is why it's an open forum and everyone is free to express their opinion, like it or not. Nobody that I could see, took optoman's situation lightly, he's been offered support from all sides.

Besides, some of the most intense and arrogant stuff came from religious zealots.l. Religion is one of the things that have divided and will continue to divide human kind for as long as it exists. There are more people who have died throughout history because of religion, then from any other cause.

 

[Orsorum]

None of the people here can offer much solace for you - your grief is yours, and yours alone. Ultimately, it is yours to reconcile.

The world is a cruel, hard place. I have known this since my birth. I have scars on every part of my body and a dead brother as a result. I have lost many other people to cancer, to accidents, to violence throughout my life. Chaos, Satan, whomever you wish to call it, does indeed rule this universe. I accepted the cruelty inherent in our existence long ago, and I have also accepted the principle of balance - and maybe in this I have found some solace. I was a Christian, once, but the logical fallacies and glaring contradictions forced me to abandon that faith.

Balance exists, although that is not readily apparent right now. You are focused on the pain and suffering of one that is close to you, and rightly so. I cannot lie to you - it will get worse, and it will hurt. It will burn in the deepest parts of your soul. You will feel pain like none you have felt before, and you will cry and weep and rail against this faceless God. You will long for vengeance, for some sort of understanding, meaning in a meaningless existence. To be honest, you may never find it.

You will find peace. I know not when, I know not where. But it will come. This anger will never subside, it will always smolder inside of you - and there will be painful moments, where you break down and the emotions flood back over you. And then they will be spent, for that moment at least, and you will carry on.

If you wish for prayers, or a listening ear, or maybe just a faceless person to yell at, I offer myself up.

Find peace, in your own time.

Shalom,
Nate