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I am losing faith in my linux.....

G

Goosemaster

Lifer
I am losing faith in my linux dealings...

I have so many questions to ask and am so used to a classroom or at least a lecture enviroment that I might end up taking classes or something...

Ex: I was using VNC but since I had no root priviledges I could not do some things remotely now that the pc is in the close(on cat5 cable and power) so I periodically had to take it out and use it directly...I know that there are a lot of answers, but I am still looking for the right type of book to help me...all of them are decent..I won't even bother complaining because they are good...


I am just interested to see what you think of available training sources....is the redhat cert. training worth it(expensive as hell, i know) or is the mandrake campus thing a good choice...


I might be getting a kvm switch so my problems could go away but their are so many things I need but I get crazy trying to learn them all at once....

I need a webserver...apache...

I need a mail server..sendmail....

I need a dynamic DNS client...I know where to get one...

Still so many question come up and they are sometime REALLY random and even after searching I find no answers.....or at least I give up because it gets me off track ofg others things.....


Basically what is the best way to proceed? I am using win2k server and is is fine, but I loath not having my "cool" linux box.....

Mandrake campus?(which I think is free...)
Redhat(3k for a 4 day class)


>??>

I apoligize for bringing up the subject so many times. IT is just really hard to clearly ask for help when undertaking hte montrous task of learning an ENTIRe operating system....



Basically I will probably GET a KVM and probably delve DIRECTly into slackware or debian(redhat and Mandrake are so DECIEVIngly easy that I get off track with that penguin race game..you know...with the fish and such)


Anyways.....what is the BEST and most user- friendly Linux-learning tool...


Thanks
 
Have you ever considered joining a LUG in your area? Those guys can be of great help, and you can inteact, and get your questions answered personally. I bet you can even bring your system along if you let them know ahead of time. Just watchout for those who think are gurus and try to confuse you by talking out of ther a$$es . . . ;^)

Just a thought.
 
VNC? Why bother? SSH will give you all the power and use you should need.

Maybe you arent cut out to use Linux. You want something simple? Fine. You think Windows is simple? Learn to use it instead of Linux. You want something good? You think Windows is good? Why bother with Linux? You want to be cool? Get out of the house once in a while.
 
I had the same problem with Linux in the beginning.

I don't think that taking class or a tutorial course is realy the way to go, sometimes the information they provide you is incomplete, misleading, or just not useful.
however classes may be usefull for you. I got ADD or something and most things like that are just not usefull for me, however you may be different.

The best way to learn Linux in my opinion is just jump in and do something. Don't be like "I need to learn Apache before I can install it/or use it", just do it, jump right in and don't be afraid. If you run into problems search the web, look for Apache howtos on Linuxdocs.org to make sure you not missing something, don't be afraid to ask stupid questions ( just make sure that you are in the right forums for asking stupid newbie questions and be polite) 😉 read man files.

some basic tips are;

don't depend on X apps to do all the configuration. Learn howto use a bash shell and use virtual consols like Eterm or Xterm, they are your buddies. learn the config files for the apps you are having trouble with. Read their man pages often even if you don't understand all of it don't worry most of it you probably won't need, but they are usefull non the less.

Learn a bit a bit about programming. Take a class. Even old stuff like Qbasic will give you some insights on how computers work. And remember in Linux a little C goes a long way. (Linux is based mostly on C and C++)
For example: when someone writes a program the need to be able to do some very basic stuff like manage memory, or they need to use the same bit code over and over agian. Instead of writing this stuff over and over agian, always recreating the same solution (sometimes refered to as reinventing the wheel) they just put that bit of code in a special file called a library. That way everytime they need to do something routine they can just refer to the library instead of rewritting the code. In linux these are lib files they are usually begin with Lib or lib and have a .so at the end. these files are located folders like /lib /usr/lib /usr/local/lib etc.etc. If these are missing or there are conflicting versions it may cause a program not run or compile. (In Microsoft land these libraries are .dll files for dynamic library something or other)

Config files are usually located in the /etc folder or in one of it's decendants.

exacutable files are located in */bin folders like /bin /usr/bin /usr/local/bin etc. etc. In order to exicute these files the folder they are located in have to be in your search path you can find your search path with the command $PATH. A Root user can also use files in the */sbin folders. A user must have 'rights' to a file in order to use it. Root had rights to all files.

PATH is a enviromental variable. you can veiw all your variable with the 'set' command. You will have many more variables in X windows then in console.
use the command 'man set' for more info

man is very usefull for veiwing man files. man files are help files to teach you how to use a command. you can learn more about most commands by using:
man * were * = the command you want to learn about.

config files specific for a user are located in his home folder. These files are hidden. In order to hide a file all you have to do is add a dot before the file name. use the command: ls -l | more to veiw all of the files

the | thingy is called a pipe. It pipes the output thru a another command. < > thingies do the same type of things just diferent ways. You can use these to create shell scripts. Shell scripts are like Batch files in Windows. They are a set of commands in a file that will do stuff. Shell scripts are very powerfull and sometimes people use them to create programs.

A weird thing to try is to take a basic sound file like a .wav file and use this command:
cat basic.wav > /dev/dsp
if it works it will play the file on you sound card!
cat will take a file and display it to the screen. You can use: cat mytextfile.txt | more to read files. if you just 'cat basic.wav' it will just be a bunch of mess on your screen. But you redirect the output with a > to you sound card to play a file. It won't sound good but you can use this to troubleshoot your sound card if it ain't working properly.

All of everything in linux is a file. EVERYTHING . A C: drive (in windows terms) may be /dev/hda1 or a the 3rd partition on the 2nd harddrve would be /dev/hdb3 Your sound card may be /dev/dsp . To make a empty file you can: cat /dev/null > mytextfile.txt A weird way to delete a file would be mv mytxtfile.txt > /dev/null .


Linux is not that much more complicated to use than Windows stuff. It's just a rough trasition from one OS to the other. (if you don't believe me goto startmenu -> run (or whatever to get exicute a command) and type: regedit , and prepare to be disturbed) 😉

If you are realy serious about learning Linux you will just have to ween yourself off of windows. It took me awhile to get out of dual -booting, but when I finally killed of my windows 98 I learned Linux much more quickly because I used it all the time. And now it's not any harder to use. When I use XP and don't make everything back to classic mode it makes my head spin and I pray for the protective womb of command line to come back and protect me from the horrid icon/mouse monsters of microcrap.

Oh, If you are afraid of ruining your OS with your experimintation, just keep a another OS in dual (either another version of linux or windows if you need it for school or work or something) boot so that you can always access the internet. With out the internet you will be SCREWED unless you know what you are doing
hope I helped If already knew this that slap me and call me suzie.
 
I had the same problem with Linux in the beginning.

I don't think that taking class or a tutorial course is realy the way to go, sometimes the information they provide you is incomplete, misleading, or just not useful.
however classes may be usefull for you. I got ADD or something and most things like that are just not usefull for me, however you may be different.

The best way to learn Linux in my opinion is just jump in and do something. Don't be like "I need to learn Apache before I can install it/or use it", just do it, jump right in and don't be afraid. If you run into problems search the web, look for Apache howtos on Linuxdocs.org to make sure you not missing something, don't be afraid to ask stupid questions ( just make sure that you are in the right forums for asking stupid newbie questions and be polite) 😉 read man files.

some basic tips are;

don't depend on X apps to do all the configuration. Learn howto use a bash shell and use virtual consols like Eterm or Xterm, they are your buddies. learn the config files for the apps you are having trouble with. Read their man pages often even if you don't understand all of it don't worry most of it you probably won't need, but they are usefull non the less.

Learn a bit a bit about programming. Take a class. Even old stuff like Qbasic will give you some insights on how computers work. And remember in Linux a little C goes a long way. (Linux is based mostly on C and C++)
For example: when someone writes a program the need to be able to do some very basic stuff like manage memory, or they need to use the same bit code over and over agian. Instead of writing this stuff over and over agian, always recreating the same solution (sometimes refered to as reinventing the wheel) they just put that bit of code in a special file called a library. That way everytime they need to do something routine they can just refer to the library instead of rewritting the code. In linux these are lib files they are usually begin with Lib or lib and have a .so at the end. these files are located folders like /lib /usr/lib /usr/local/lib etc.etc. If these are missing or there are conflicting versions it may cause a program not run or compile. (In Microsoft land these libraries are .dll files for dynamic library something or other)

Config files are usually located in the /etc folder or in one of it's decendants.

exacutable files are located in */bin folders like /bin /usr/bin /usr/local/bin etc. etc. In order to exicute these files the folder they are located in have to be in your search path you can find your search path with the command $PATH. A Root user can also use files in the */sbin folders. A user must have 'rights' to a file in order to use it. Root had rights to all files.

PATH is a enviromental variable. you can veiw all your variable with the 'set' command. You will have many more variables in X windows then in console.
use the command 'man set' for more info

man is very usefull for veiwing man files. man files are help files to teach you how to use a command. you can learn more about most commands by using:
man * were * = the command you want to learn about.

config files specific for a user are located in his home folder. These files are hidden. In order to hide a file all you have to do is add a dot before the file name. use the command: ls -l | more to veiw all of the files

the | thingy is called a pipe. It pipes the output thru a another command. < > thingies do the same type of things just diferent ways. You can use these to create shell scripts. Shell scripts are like Batch files in Windows. They are a set of commands in a file that will do stuff. Shell scripts are very powerfull and sometimes people use them to create programs.

A weird thing to try is to take a basic sound file like a .wav file and use this command:
cat basic.wav > /dev/dsp
if it works it will play the file on you sound card!
cat will take a file and display it to the screen. You can use: cat mytextfile.txt | more to read files. if you just 'cat basic.wav' it will just be a bunch of mess on your screen. But you redirect the output with a > to you sound card to play a file. It won't sound good but you can use this to troubleshoot your sound card if it ain't working properly.

All of everything in linux is a file. EVERYTHING . A C: drive (in windows terms) may be /dev/hda1 or a the 3rd partition on the 2nd harddrve would be /dev/hdb3 Your sound card may be /dev/dsp . To make a empty file you can: cat /dev/null > mytextfile.txt A weird way to delete a file would be mv mytxtfile.txt > /dev/null .


Linux is not that much more complicated to use than Windows stuff. It's just a rough trasition from one OS to the other. (if you don't believe me goto startmenu -> run (or whatever to get exicute a command) and type: regedit , and prepare to be disturbed) 😉

If you are realy serious about learning Linux you will just have to ween yourself off of windows. It took me awhile to get out of dual -booting, but when I finally killed of my windows 98 I learned Linux much more quickly because I used it all the time. And now it's not any harder to use. When I use XP and don't make everything back to classic mode it makes my head spin and I pray for the protective womb of command line to come back and protect me from the horrid icon/mouse monsters of microcrap.

Oh, If you are afraid of ruining your OS with your experimintation, just keep a another OS in dual (either another version of linux or windows if you need it for school or work or something) boot so that you can always access the internet. With out the internet you will be SCREWED unless you know what you are doing
hope I helped If already knew this that slap me and call me suzie.
 
It sounds like you're fearing the command line interface, which could explain why you would use VNC over SSH.

There is NO WAY around learning shell commands in Unix operating systems. The single exception might be Apple's new OS X, which seems to have a fully functional GUI wrapping around the Unix core. But if you REALLY want to learn how your system ticks, try to do EVERYTHING from the command line. That way you'll learn as you go.

Even then, it will take time. I still learn new things every day. It helps to have people to talk to when you have questions. If your questions are specific, however, people will be GLAD to help you here and just about anywhere else.

[Anecdote]
When I started with Linux, I learned from Mark Sobell's book. But, I learned later, that book was not very instructive at system administration. For two years I thought that the only way to turn on or off services for boot time was to edit the /etc/rc*.d/ symlinks manually for each runlevel that I cared to use. It was tedious, but it worked. Then two years later while watching another Linux user administering his system, I learned about Redhat's chkconfig port from Irix. I was angry that I hadn't learned about it earlier!
[/Anecdote]
 
It's just that I get sort of excited about learning stuff sometimes, that I end up doing everything at the same time.

RIght now I am simultaneously practicing:

Linux
Exchange server 5.5
win2kadvserver/IIs
Networking
sql
apache
Soccer
car mechanics...


I do to many things at once, but want to stick with one for a change..or at least two....


Funny thing is the only main thing i learned really well was how to configure VNC through the command line interface.....My main problem was that I was doing everything remotely.....

I guess I 'm going to shell out for a KVM switch and try SLackware or something so I can learn.....


Iguess this was just a rant about my bad organizational skills


Thanks anyways although I did learn a lot thanks to drag


 
Hang out on comp.os.linux.*
Get a copy of Running Linux
Get comfortable with the command prompt
Be patient
Real men use 'ed'

If you don't like linux, and I mean if you really aren't into it, don't bother. If you have no real use for it, it doesn't make good sense to mess with it. Don't worry about all of the 31337 jerks who call Windows users losers. The whole OS war thing is just stupid.

 
My best advice for truely learning and likely Linux is just to use it for a while, maybe a long while. I had to use Linux for I'd say a year, maybe a bit longer, before I was profficient in it. Took another year and a half to two years before I really, really felt I had the hang a of Linux system. Now I'm just as comfortable in Linux as I am in Windows. You did mention taking classes and getting a cert so I assume on some level you want to learn Linux as a job skill (which I think is a very good idea. not only is Linux gaining popularity in the server market, and debateably in the desktop market, but Unix in general rules in the server market, and Linux experience with greatly help when learning any other Unix flavor). I'm going to be taking a Solaris administration class this coming semester myself just in case. As a part time IT worker for my college I also have the oppurtunity to take the MSCE classes for free when they're offered, so I might look into that as well (I know that they're just a piece of paper but I'm thinking in terms of resumes, not actually learning much as I'm already quite good w/ Windows).
 
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