I am in love with Chevrolet Cruze.

[LTC8K6]

That is usually because the gear ratios on the Autos are taller than the Manuals.

For example the 2012 Mazda 3

Auto:

First Gear Ratio 1): 3.55
Second Gear Ratio 1): 2.02
Third Gear Ratio 1): 1.45
Fourth Gear Ratio 1): 1.00
Fifth Gear Ratio 1): 0.70
Sixth Gear Ratio 1): 0.59
Final Drive Axle Ratio 1): 3.89

Manual:

First Gear Ratio 1): 3.21
Second Gear Ratio 1): 1.91
Third Gear Ratio 1): 1.36
Fourth Gear Ratio 1): 1.02
Fifth Gear Ratio 1): 0.94
Sixth Gear Ratio 1): 0.79
Reverse Ratio 1): 3.45
Final Drive Axle Ratio 1): 4.18/3.52

Sporty drivers get better acceleration from the manual with a slight hit to Fuel Economy, whereas normal drivers get the extra mpg. If you equip the manual with the exact same gear ratios as a conventional auto transmission you will be better fuel economy from the manual. Mechanical linkages are always superior in terms of efficiency.

Obviously dual clutch transmissions being mechanical in nature as well, are exempt from this logic.

The Autos can tolerate the higher ratios...the manuals generally cannot.

 

[LTC8K6]

Depends a lot on how you drive. I must drive a manual pretty good because right now that 2008 Impreza says it's doing 8.2L/100km when driving around the city; no highway driving. That works out to 28.6mpg (US) in the city. I'm very surprised at how good the mileage is. I was expecting this thing to guzzle gas like no tomorrow since the EPA ratings for Subarus are consistently horrible. 2012 is probably the first year where they didn't get a horrible gas mileage rating.



That shouldn't have much effect on the city mileage though. Having shorter gears just means you use a higher gear. Instead of 2000rpm in gear 2 for an automatic, you might be doing 2000rpm in gear 3 for a manual. This stops being true when you get to the last gear, but most city driving doesn't get that fast anyway.

I find it very hard to believe you are beating the EPA city mileage by nearly 50%...

 

[ShawnD1]

I find it very hard to believe you are beating the EPA city mileage by nearly 50%...

I'll take a pic of it when I get home ()

 

[Throckmorton]

Depends a lot on how you drive. I must drive a manual pretty good because right now that 2008 Impreza says it's doing 8.2L/100km when driving around the city; no highway driving. That works out to 28.6mpg (US) in the city. I'm very surprised at how good the mileage is. I was expecting this thing to guzzle gas like no tomorrow since the EPA ratings for Subarus are consistently horrible. 2012 is probably the first year where they didn't get a horrible gas mileage rating.



That shouldn't have much effect on the city mileage though. Having shorter gears just means you use a higher gear. Instead of 2000rpm in gear 2 for an automatic, you might be doing 2000rpm in gear 3 for a manual. This stops being true when you get to the last gear, but most city driving doesn't get that fast anyway.

Why didn't you wait for the 2012? Then you'd be getting like 50mpg

 

[ShawnD1]

Why didn't you wait for the 2012? Then you'd be getting like 50mpg

I would also lose 30HP. I would be back in Toyota Corolla power range. Screw that man. I'm done with almost dying on the highway because it takes 30 minutes to pass a single car.

Or I could still get the 2.5L in the Legacy, which is like $5000 more expensive. Nice car, but $5000. For me, that's a lot of money.

 

[Throckmorton]

I would also lose 30HP. I would be back in Toyota Corolla power range. Screw that man. I'm done with almost dying on the highway because it takes 30 minutes to pass a single car.

Or I could still get the 2.5L in the Legacy, which is like $5000 more expensive. Nice car, but $5000. For me, that's a lot of money.

If you like horsepower so much, why not a V6 Mustang? 300hp, RWD, and similar gas mileage to what you get now.

 

[ShawnD1]

Because it's a Ford?

 

[Throckmorton]

Because it's a Ford?

 

[ShawnD1]

I haven't had much luck with Ford. My Tempo had a million things wrong with it. My gf's parents had a Ford which randomly started on fire and nearly burned their house down. Brother had 2 fords; both of them had a spark plug blown out of the block. Brother's friends have Ford trucks with head gasket problems.

The spontaneous fire thing seems like it affected quite a few people.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/f150_fires.html
Blowing spark plugs out of the block was very common as well.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html
There was about a 10 year span where everything pumped out by Ford was expected to chew through head gaskets like it's going out of style:
http://www.autosafety.org/ford-38l-head-gasket-trouble

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 7 times.... why would I buy Ford when I don't know a single person who would buy a Ford again?

 

[SparkyJJO]

I think you can go back in history of any vehicle manufacturer and find massive things wrong with some of their vehicles. What matters is if they learned from it. And the fact you're referring to your old Tempo shows just how long ago we're talking

Fords no longer blow spark plugs out of the heads, nor do they routinely have head gasket issues, nor is it any more common for them to spontaneously light on fire than any other auto brand.

If I wrote off every car manufacturer that had some serious issue in the past, I'd have no choice but to walk!

 

[LTC8K6]

I'll take a pic of it when I get home ()

A picture of your mileage display means very little.

 

[LTC8K6]

I would also lose 30HP. I would be back in Toyota Corolla power range. Screw that man. I'm done with almost dying on the highway because it takes 30 minutes to pass a single car.

Or I could still get the 2.5L in the Legacy, which is like $5000 more expensive. Nice car, but $5000. For me, that's a lot of money.

The Impreza 2.5i and the Corolla are pretty much tied in acceleration numbers when both have manual transmissions. If we dock the Corolla a couple tenths for an auto trans, they still aren't far apart. There's no big performance difference.

The Impreza weighs about 350 pounds more than the Corolla, which soaks up the 30 horses.

In various reviews, the Subaru Impreza 2.5i is universally panned for abysmal city fuel economy in the 20mpg range.

 

[ShawnD1]

The Impreza weighs about 350 pounds more than the Corolla, which soaks up the 30 horses.

corolla: 2800 / 132 = 21lb/hp
impreza: 3100 / 170 = 18lb/hp
That's more than 10% improvement at the least.

On page 1 it was mentioned that the Cruze is 23lb/hp D: D: D:
(the broad torque curve makes it drivable at least)

 

[LTC8K6]

http://media.caranddriver.com/files...eza-and-four-more-economy-carslittle-feet.pdf

http://media.caranddriver.com/files...a-and-four-more-economy-carslittle-feet-1.pdf

 

[ShawnD1]

I can tell you right now the chart about the Corolla is wrong. It certainly does not do 0-100mph in 27 seconds. The fastest we ever got that car up to was 106 and it took almost a minute to get to that speed.

 

[jlee]

I can tell you right now the chart about the Corolla is wrong. It certainly does not do 0-100mph in 27 seconds. The fastest we ever got that car up to was 106 and it took almost a minute to get to that speed.

That's probably because their trunk is not full of rocks.

 

[ShawnD1]

That's probably because their trunk is not full of rocks.

Mine wasn't either. I only do that in winter because it prevents the car from rotating when slowing down. Without the rocks, the car rotates a lot.
http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/weight-transfers.htm#axzz1dM3dgPJm

 

[foghorn67]

I can tell you right now the chart about the Corolla is wrong. It certainly does not do 0-100mph in 27 seconds. The fastest we ever got that car up to was 106 and it took almost a minute to get to that speed.

What year is it? You might have a tired engine that needs servicing. You also said "we". Economy cars don't accelerate well with passengers.
My Focus with the PZEV 2.3 was torquey and took off nicely if I'm just in the car. Put even one passenger in there, and you can feel the difference quite easily. Especially on grades.
Btw, as mentioned earlier, you can't blacklist car makers forever. If I did that, I wouldn't recommend Hondas. But I do because it's a case by case situation.

 

[exdeath]

For a more powerful car like a corvette, the graph is virtually meaningless. First and second gears will spin the tires at any rpm

624 RWHP / 601 RWTQ @ 2500 RPM. I don't spin even in first. Not anymore.

All about the right tire.

The only thing I care about or look at anymore are the tires. If I see stock 185s all seasons then I know a) they are stock, not a threat or b) even if they had twice my power they still aren't going anywhere.

Nobody runs expensive < 10,000 mile wear rating drag radials on their sleeper because they look cool or because they are shiny and blingy and give you more power or louder bass or look hellaflush or because they don't like driving in the rain. They are there out of necessity for only one reason.

PS: You've never driven a Corvette. You can't spin 335s with 400 flywheel HP under most normal driving conditions, especially not with the stock gears. Corvettes actually come with decent tires if you don't get the run-flats.

 

[SparkyJJO]

lb/hp is almost as bad as hp/L. It doesn't actually tell you much of anything.

 

[Bignate603]

To be honest I'm impressed with how much the domestic small cars have improved (except for Chrysler, but they don't really have any non-truck/suv vehicles that are worth a darn).

 

[LTC8K6]

I can tell you right now the chart about the Corolla is wrong. It certainly does not do 0-100mph in 27 seconds. The fastest we ever got that car up to was 106 and it took almost a minute to get to that speed.

Not a chance in hell that it took a minute unless it was slipping badly.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

I haven't had much luck with Ford. My Tempo had a million things wrong with it. My gf's parents had a Ford which randomly started on fire and nearly burned their house down. Brother had 2 fords; both of them had a spark plug blown out of the block. Brother's friends have Ford trucks with head gasket problems.

The spontaneous fire thing seems like it affected quite a few people.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/f150_fires.html
Blowing spark plugs out of the block was very common as well.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html
There was about a 10 year span where everything pumped out by Ford was expected to chew through head gaskets like it's going out of style:
http://www.autosafety.org/ford-38l-head-gasket-trouble

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 7 times.... why would I buy Ford when I don't know a single person who would buy a Ford again?

In the last 5 years Ford has really stepped up there game. I wish I had a refrence for a quote but I remember reading something where Ford actually admitted to being below par and was from now on going to do better. I used to be a hardcore GM man, but ever since my brother bought a 2008 F150 and let me borrow it a few times I have been changing my mind. Also I was impressed with how the company was ran during the whole economic crisis.
I wouldnt hesitate to purchase a ford if they had a vehicle I was actually interested in. The focus hatchback is quite nice IMO.... for a hatchback.

That's probably because their trunk is not full of rocks.

nor their heads! lol!

To be honest I'm impressed with how much the domestic small cars have improved (except for Chrysler, but they don't really have any non-truck/suv vehicles that are worth a darn).

Ill second that.

 

[Doppel]

I'm not trying to hate, but the Cruze is extremely bland in appearance. There may be things to like it but its "styling" isn't one of them. Very pedestrian in appearance and doesn't stick out at all. Like it or leave it, at least the Elantra is something that makes you look twice.

 

[Throckmorton]

I'm not trying to hate, but the Cruze is extremely bland in appearance. There may be things to like it but its "styling" isn't one of them. Very pedestrian in appearance and doesn't stick out at all. Like it or leave it, at least the Elantra is something that makes you look twice.

10-15 years ago we would have considered the Cruze clean! Kind of weird how styling goes in cycles.


The Elantra is UGLY. I cringe every time I see one of those fishy organic mess looking cars. Several magazines said it looks like the Montauk Monster.