I am a Christian

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Funny story - my sister, mom, and myself had a long conversation about Jesus and what he means. My mom is VERY religious, very educated in the bible, and her father and grandfather were both ministers. My sister was trying to go for the middle ground "Jesus is about love, about accepting your neighbors regardless of their faith and the bible is poetry, it shouldn't be taken literally." My mom stated that she's tired of liberals who don't really agree with the bible bending the words. God is VENGEFUL, the bible clearly states that there is only ONE PATH to salvation (which is accepting Jesus), Jesus DEMANDS that you give up ALL of your material wealth to go to heaven, the Bible clearly states that women are inferior, homosexuals are sinners, and that there is no middle ground. It also states taht you should have a child like faith - do not question, or you may face damnation.

My mom's point is that the bible is pretty blunt. You can agree or disagree, but don't try to mix hippy new age thoughts with the bible... That's post-modernism and the bible surely is not a post-modern text.

Excellent post!

Ah, at last we agree on something! Handshake and a happy end to the thread?

Can we also agree that Christian talk is kinda lame? You know, people who call you their sister's in Christ and people who use such Dungeons and Dragons mixed with Father Knows Best sort of dialog to communicate -they're annoying, right? Can we at least admit that?

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Funny story - my sister, mom, and myself had a long conversation about Jesus and what he means. My mom is VERY religious, very educated in the bible, and her father and grandfather were both ministers. My sister was trying to go for the middle ground "Jesus is about love, about accepting your neighbors regardless of their faith and the bible is poetry, it shouldn't be taken literally." My mom stated that she's tired of liberals who don't really agree with the bible bending the words. God is VENGEFUL, the bible clearly states that there is only ONE PATH to salvation (which is accepting Jesus), Jesus DEMANDS that you give up ALL of your material wealth to go to heaven, the Bible clearly states that women are inferior, homosexuals are sinners, and that there is no middle ground. It also states taht you should have a child like faith - do not question, or you may face damnation.

My mom's point is that the bible is pretty blunt. You can agree or disagree, but don't try to mix hippy new age thoughts with the bible... That's post-modernism and the bible surely is not a post-modern text.

Excellent post!

Ah, at last we agree on something! Handshake and a happy end to the thread?

Can we also agree that Christian talk is kinda lame? You know, people who call you their sister's in Christ and people who use such Dungeons and Dragons mixed with Father Knows Best sort of dialog to communicate -they're annoying, right? Can we at least admit that?

How about I admit that I don't generally do it and leave it at that?

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Funny story - my sister, mom, and myself had a long conversation about Jesus and what he means. My mom is VERY religious, very educated in the bible, and her father and grandfather were both ministers. My sister was trying to go for the middle ground "Jesus is about love, about accepting your neighbors regardless of their faith and the bible is poetry, it shouldn't be taken literally." My mom stated that she's tired of liberals who don't really agree with the bible bending the words. God is VENGEFUL, the bible clearly states that there is only ONE PATH to salvation (which is accepting Jesus), Jesus DEMANDS that you give up ALL of your material wealth to go to heaven, the Bible clearly states that women are inferior, homosexuals are sinners, and that there is no middle ground. It also states taht you should have a child like faith - do not question, or you may face damnation.

My mom's point is that the bible is pretty blunt. You can agree or disagree, but don't try to mix hippy new age thoughts with the bible... That's post-modernism and the bible surely is not a post-modern text.

Excellent post!

Ah, at last we agree on something! Handshake and a happy end to the thread?

Can we also agree that Christian talk is kinda lame? You know, people who call you their sister's in Christ and people who use such Dungeons and Dragons mixed with Father Knows Best sort of dialog to communicate -they're annoying, right? Can we at least admit that?

How about I admit that I don't generally do it and leave it at that?

Please don't that sort of thing makes us atheists gag. I go to church whenever my mom wants me too and.. Boy.. I hate it when people try to fake love and hold my hand and call me "brother." STOP IT! Stop it, you silly christians!"

 

[jupiter57]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Disclaimer: I'm not hot.

Uh, uh, girl, you posted pics.
Disclaimer not valid!

 

[busmaster11]

The Lord has revealed His truths to those the world deems foolish and naive, and has hidden it from the hardened.

Humble believers have God-given faith to believe upon His Word. The worldly have confidence in themselves and an incomplete knowledge of their world.

The Lord has not opened the eyes of non-believers (yet), and therefore only supplication for God's mightly work will save them. There is no reasoning with the hardened and blind. You cannot persuade or reason someone to true faith.

HotChic, all very good points you raised. But this forum is full of cynical, arrogant, self-made men, - fit for survival in this world - but far from the brokenness fit for God's kingdom. Don't let them change you.

 

[Luthien]

Originally posted by: busmaster11
The Lord has revealed His truths to those the world deems foolish and naive, and has hidden it from the hardened.

Humble believers have God-given faith to believe upon His Word. The worldly have confidence in themselves and an incomplete knowledge of their world.

The Lord has not opened the eyes of non-believers (yet), and therefore only supplication for God's mightly work will save them. There is no reasoning with the hardened and blind. You cannot persuade or reason someone to true faith.

HotChic, all very good points you raised. But this forum is full of cynical, arrogant, self-made men, - fit for survival in this world - but far from the brokenness fit for God's kingdom. Don't let them change you.

Yay, another threatening your going to hell post!

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: Pacemaker
What it comes down to is if you look at the craziest 1% of any group that group will look like they are out there. Craziest 1% of Atheists.... wow that's crazy. Craziest 1% of Christians.... OMG crazy. The craziest 1% of any group is crazy beyond human comprehension.

This is a fine point. My biggest gripe with atheists or any other Christian-basher is that they want to throw us all in that crazy 1%.

People who pretend to know everything are very annoying to those of us who actually do.

 

[FireChicken]

One of my biggest problems with christianity is that you believe that even genuinely good people will go to hell just for that fact that they do not believe god or worship jesus. Is that not a judgement in its self??

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Luthien
Here is more than a hint for you hotchic since it isn't obvious to you for obvious reasons and is your very first sentence to boot and the one you missed in your list, lol, once again proving my point that you don't see the obvious.

"I believe in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. I honestly believe the only way to heaven is repentance and a true belief in Jesus Christ."

South Park dramatization of the point: Kenny Going To Hell

Everyone before you through out all history and prehistory before Christianity existed is going to hell unless they believed your very first statement and all the generations to come. I know you don't think that is offensive which is as I said.

Since Christ the only way through heaven has been through him. Before Christ obviously Christ was not the way. Also, each individual will have to deal with God is his own way. I cannot say that the individual in the jungle of Asia who has never heard of Jesus is going to hell. I do know that if you know about Jesus and reject his teachings that it has been said you will be thrown into hell. Even this is still a debate among Christian circles. (I might even have some of it wrong sorry.)

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: FireChicken
One of my biggest problems with christianity is that you believe that even genuinely good people will go to hell just for that fact that they do not believe god or worship jesus. Is that not a judgement in its self??

Well, we say that because it's what God said. And yes, it is a judgement. God's judgement. He never said he cannot judge. Hence "Judgement Day". The Bible says you cannot get to Heaven on your good deeds alone, but that believing in Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven.

 

[mobobuff]

I am an atheist, but I have great respect for you and your words, and I only wish you were a majority representative of Christians with your live-and-let-live attitude.

I'm a live-and-let-live atheist.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: FireChicken
hotchick (or any believers)-Since you believe in hell I have a question for you. Do you believe that people who have not accepted jesus christ as their personal lord and savior (or believe in God) will go to hell?

I believe that those who have rejected the Lord will definitely go to hell. This is based upon the Biblical conviction that our heritage of being in a state of original sin is an act of rebellion against God.

God offers us the grace of we simply believe in it. This however means we must live out such a conviction. If a doc tells you your excruciating headache comes from a fork stuck in your skull, you'd have it removed if you believe him.

Of course, God is sovereign and I don't claim to know what will happen to those who haven't the chance to know or believe. Since original sin is our heritage, no one deserves to be with God. So, we all deserve death equally based upon our merit, be it OBL or Mother Teresa. Therefore, we cannot say a baby is innocent and will not be condemned.

The world's comfort and trends runs contrary to the Bible. So God's true Word will remain unpopular despite America claiming to be a "Christian" nation. This is consistent, however, to His Word - He promises to save just the remnant.

My prayer is for those who are not cynical to these ideas, and do give it second thought, to pray to the Lord - and ask that He searches your heart so that you may repent and know Him.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: mobobuff
I am an atheist, but I have great respect for you and your words, and I only wish you were a majority representative of Christians with your live-and-let-live attitude.

I'm a live-and-let-live atheist.

I think most Christians are. Most that I know are. It's just that since they do have a live-and-let-live attitude, they keep their mouths shut, so you don't hear from them. The fundamentalists are the ones you hear from, and that's all you're exposed to, so people assume that's all Christians.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: FireChicken
One of my biggest problems with christianity is that you believe that even genuinely good people will go to hell just for that fact that they do not believe god or worship jesus. Is that not a judgement in its self??

Well yeah I guess it is. It's God judging you. Just because someone tells you you're wrong and the Bible says so doesn't make it true. Look it up for yourself and see if that's what it says.

If you don't believe the Bible then well, you have nothing to worry about then do you?

By the way, the bible does not say that good people get to Heaven. Saved people get to Heaven. - look that up for yourself too.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: FireChicken
One of my biggest problems with christianity is that you believe that even genuinely good people will go to hell just for that fact that they do not believe god or worship jesus. Is that not a judgement in its self??

Not all believe that.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Funny story - my sister, mom, and myself had a long conversation about Jesus and what he means. My mom is VERY religious, very educated in the bible, and her father and grandfather were both ministers. My sister was trying to go for the middle ground "Jesus is about love, about accepting your neighbors regardless of their faith and the bible is poetry, it shouldn't be taken literally." My mom stated that she's tired of liberals who don't really agree with the bible bending the words. God is VENGEFUL, the bible clearly states that there is only ONE PATH to salvation (which is accepting Jesus), Jesus DEMANDS that you give up ALL of your material wealth to go to heaven, the Bible clearly states that women are inferior, homosexuals are sinners, and that there is no middle ground. It also states taht you should have a child like faith - do not question, or you may face damnation.

My mom's point is that the bible is pretty blunt. You can agree or disagree, but don't try to mix hippy new age thoughts with the bible... That's post-modernism and the bible surely is not a post-modern text.

Excellent post!

Ah, at last we agree on something! Handshake and a happy end to the thread?

Freedomsbeat, why do CHRISTIANS pick and choose what to follow from the Bible, while regarding it as infallible?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Luthien
You know why christians "hate" atheists and any other belief so much? Because they threaten christianity's very nature. While in the midst of belief a christian cannot reconcile the self inflicted threat of hell and loss of a magical heaven. Failure to believe in a believers mind means they must give up heaven and suffer hell. The enduring threats they got suckered into believing has traped them. It will continue to trap them until they stop believing in heaven and hell but that means they are going to hell... I think you get the irony of this mind trap that religions love to use because it is so powerful; on top of that they will lose the social bonds that were created within the church and amongst fellow believers so moving on is a very scary thing. It is all no different than any cult. Christianity is a macrocosmic cult just like every other major world religion. The very threat that converted them traps them.

You don't really have any idea of the Christian religion I see at all. Christians don't "hate" athiests, or muslims, or hindu's ect. Yes, small extremists groups do, as is observed in every religion but as a religion overall they do not. Just as all Muslims do not "hate' all Jews and Christians. Some Christians come to the religion because of Fire and Brimstone preaching, but I have never seen one who has stay, as that is not enough reason to stay in a faith. The fear of hell is not enough to keep someone a devout Christian.

 

[Luthien]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Luthien
You know why christians "hate" atheists and any other belief so much? Because they threaten christianity's very nature. While in the midst of belief a christian cannot reconcile the self inflicted threat of hell and loss of a magical heaven. Failure to believe in a believers mind means they must give up heaven and suffer hell. The enduring threats they got suckered into believing has traped them. It will continue to trap them until they stop believing in heaven and hell but that means they are going to hell... I think you get the irony of this mind trap that religions love to use because it is so powerful; on top of that they will lose the social bonds that were created within the church and amongst fellow believers so moving on is a very scary thing. It is all no different than any cult. Christianity is a macrocosmic cult just like every other major world religion. The very threat that converted them traps them.

You don't really have any idea of the Christian religion I see at all. Christians don't "hate" athiests, or muslims, or hindu's ect. Yes, small extremists groups do, as is observed in every religion but as a religion overall they do not. Just as all Muslims do not "hate' all Jews and Christians. Some Christians come to the religion because of Fire and Brimstone preaching, but I have never seen one who has stay, as that is not enough reason to stay in a faith. The fear of hell is not enough to keep someone a devout Christian.

Dissuade all you want replace "hate" with dislike for the rest if you want but the facts is the facts. Enjoy your trap, it could take you the rest of your life to unlock it or never.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Luthien
You know why christians "hate" atheists and any other belief so much? Because they threaten christianity's very nature. While in the midst of belief a christian cannot reconcile the self inflicted threat of hell and loss of a magical heaven. Failure to believe in a believers mind means they must give up heaven and suffer hell. The enduring threats they got suckered into believing has traped them. It will continue to trap them until they stop believing in heaven and hell but that means they are going to hell... I think you get the irony of this mind trap that religions love to use because it is so powerful; on top of that they will lose the social bonds that were created within the church and amongst fellow believers so moving on is a very scary thing. It is all no different than any cult. Christianity is a macrocosmic cult just like every other major world religion. The very threat that converted them traps them.

You don't really have any idea of the Christian religion I see at all. Christians don't "hate" athiests, or muslims, or hindu's ect. Yes, small extremists groups do, as is observed in every religion but as a religion overall they do not. Just as all Muslims do not "hate' all Jews and Christians. Some Christians come to the religion because of Fire and Brimstone preaching, but I have never seen one who has stay, as that is not enough reason to stay in a faith. The fear of hell is not enough to keep someone a devout Christian.

Dissuade all you want replace "hate" with dislike for the rest if you want but the facts is the facts. Enjoy your trap, it could take you the rest of your life to unlock it or never.

The extremists hate/dislike/frown upon other religions for there religion. Uninformed people hate/dislike/frown upon entire groups of religions for the actions of a few. Typical people will sit here and go "they have there views, and I have mine". The fact that you think all people of religion are uninformed extremists shows the point I was making, that you have no clue really. I have Muslime and Jewish friends, my favorite professor is an Arab Muslim and we can sit and debate the middle east politics for hours on end and we do not hate each other. Yet, according to your observations we should. I am sure many posters here have relationships with people who practice other religions, even religions with extremists that want to destroy there own, and they do not hate those people or that religion.

Religious extremism in any religion is something to be hated/not tolerated. Thankfully extremism plays a very very very small role in the bigger picture of things, a picture many people ignore to focus on the off color pixel in the corner.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Funny story - my sister, mom, and myself had a long conversation about Jesus and what he means. My mom is VERY religious, very educated in the bible, and her father and grandfather were both ministers. My sister was trying to go for the middle ground "Jesus is about love, about accepting your neighbors regardless of their faith and the bible is poetry, it shouldn't be taken literally." My mom stated that she's tired of liberals who don't really agree with the bible bending the words. God is VENGEFUL, the bible clearly states that there is only ONE PATH to salvation (which is accepting Jesus), Jesus DEMANDS that you give up ALL of your material wealth to go to heaven, the Bible clearly states that women are inferior, homosexuals are sinners, and that there is no middle ground. It also states taht you should have a child like faith - do not question, or you may face damnation.

My mom's point is that the bible is pretty blunt. You can agree or disagree, but don't try to mix hippy new age thoughts with the bible... That's post-modernism and the bible surely is not a post-modern text.

Excellent post!

Ah, at last we agree on something! Handshake and a happy end to the thread?

Freedomsbeat, why do CHRISTIANS pick and choose what to follow from the Bible, while regarding it as infallible?

The ones that compromise try to reconcile it with the world, and you question their integrity. The ones that don't, you call intolerant fundies.

Either way the point remains that there can be no reasoning with those whom He hasn't yet called... But the message is still the same. We all need to repent.

 

[indamixx99]

Wow... very interesting thread. Hindu's FTW!

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Funny story - my sister, mom, and myself had a long conversation about Jesus and what he means. My mom is VERY religious, very educated in the bible, and her father and grandfather were both ministers. My sister was trying to go for the middle ground "Jesus is about love, about accepting your neighbors regardless of their faith and the bible is poetry, it shouldn't be taken literally." My mom stated that she's tired of liberals who don't really agree with the bible bending the words. God is VENGEFUL, the bible clearly states that there is only ONE PATH to salvation (which is accepting Jesus), Jesus DEMANDS that you give up ALL of your material wealth to go to heaven, the Bible clearly states that women are inferior, homosexuals are sinners, and that there is no middle ground. It also states taht you should have a child like faith - do not question, or you may face damnation.

My mom's point is that the bible is pretty blunt. You can agree or disagree, but don't try to mix hippy new age thoughts with the bible... That's post-modernism and the bible surely is not a post-modern text.

Excellent post!

Ah, at last we agree on something! Handshake and a happy end to the thread?

Freedomsbeat, why do CHRISTIANS pick and choose what to follow from the Bible, while regarding it as infallible?

The ones that compromise try to reconcile it with the world, and you question their integrity. The ones that don't, you call intolerant fundies.

Either way the point remains that there can be no reasoning with those whom He hasn't yet called... But the message is still the same. We all need to repent.

I'm talking about fundamentalist Christians who do not stone adulturers, allow disabled people in their Churches, and eat shellfish, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the Bible.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Funny story - my sister, mom, and myself had a long conversation about Jesus and what he means. My mom is VERY religious, very educated in the bible, and her father and grandfather were both ministers. My sister was trying to go for the middle ground "Jesus is about love, about accepting your neighbors regardless of their faith and the bible is poetry, it shouldn't be taken literally." My mom stated that she's tired of liberals who don't really agree with the bible bending the words. God is VENGEFUL, the bible clearly states that there is only ONE PATH to salvation (which is accepting Jesus), Jesus DEMANDS that you give up ALL of your material wealth to go to heaven, the Bible clearly states that women are inferior, homosexuals are sinners, and that there is no middle ground. It also states taht you should have a child like faith - do not question, or you may face damnation.

My mom's point is that the bible is pretty blunt. You can agree or disagree, but don't try to mix hippy new age thoughts with the bible... That's post-modernism and the bible surely is not a post-modern text.

Excellent post!

Ah, at last we agree on something! Handshake and a happy end to the thread?

Freedomsbeat, why do CHRISTIANS pick and choose what to follow from the Bible, while regarding it as infallible?

The ones that compromise try to reconcile it with the world, and you question their integrity. The ones that don't, you call intolerant fundies.

Either way the point remains that there can be no reasoning with those whom He hasn't yet called... But the message is still the same. We all need to repent.

I'm talking about fundamentalist Christians who do not stone adulturers, allow disabled people in their Churches, and eat shellfish, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the Bible.

Maybe under the Law, in the OT. When Jesus died on the cross for our sins he eradicated the Law and we are now saved by faith.

 

[MrsBugi]

It's good to know that you've found something that works for you. I respect the religious and spiritual views of others even if I don't agree with them. used to be a hardcore Christian, now I'm happily agnostic.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: RichardEAlso, each individual will have to deal with God is his own way. I cannot say that the individual in the jungle of Asia who has never heard of Jesus is going to hell. I do know that if you know about Jesus and reject his teachings that it has been said you will be thrown into hell. Even this is still a debate among Christian circles. (I might even have some of it wrong sorry.)

Didn't Jesus say that no one comes to the Father but by me? If so, why would that not exclude those who never heard of him?