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I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
Washington Post link here

By Sunil Dutta August 19 at 6:00 AM
Sunil Dutta, a professor of homeland security at Colorado Tech University, has been an officer with the Los Angeles Police Department for 17 years. The views presented here are his own and do not represent the LAPD.

A teenager is fatally shot by a police officer; the police are accused of being bloodthirsty, trigger-happy murderers; riots erupt. This, we are led to believe, is the way of things in America.

It is also a terrible calumny; cops are not murderers. No officer goes out in the field wishing to shoot anyone, armed or unarmed. And while they’re unlikely to defend it quite as loudly during a time of national angst like this one, people who work in law enforcement know they are legally vested with the authority to detain suspects — an authority that must sometimes be enforced. Regardless of what happened with Mike Brown, in the overwhelming majority of cases it is not the cops, but the people they stop, who can prevent detentions from turning into tragedies.

Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority. In the vast majority of such encounters, I was able to peacefully resolve the situation without using force. Cops deploy their training and their intuition creatively, and I wielded every trick in my arsenal, including verbal judo, humor, warnings and ostentatious displays of the lethal (and nonlethal) hardware resting in my duty belt. One time, for instance, my partner and I faced a belligerent man who had doused his car with gallons of gas and was about to create a firebomb at a busy mall filled with holiday shoppers. The potential for serious harm to the bystanders would have justified deadly force. Instead, I distracted him with a hook about his family and loved ones, and he disengaged without hurting anyone. Every day cops show similar restraint and resolve incidents that could easily end up in serious injuries or worse.

Sometimes, though, no amount of persuasion or warnings work on a belligerent person; that’s when cops have to use force, and the results can be tragic. We are still learning what transpired between Officer Darren Wilson and Brown, but in most cases it’s less ambiguous — and officers are rarely at fault. When they use force, they are defending their, or the public’s, safety.

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?

DON’T ARGUE WITH ME, DON’T CALL ME NAMES, DON’T TELL ME THAT I CAN’T STOP YOU, DON’T SAY I’M A RACIST PIG, DON’T THREATEN THAT YOU’LL SUE ME AND TAKE AWAY MY BADGE. DON’T SCREAM AT ME THAT YOU PAY MY SALARY, AND DON’T EVEN THINK OF AGGRESSIVELY WALKING TOWARDS ME.

I know it is scary for people to be stopped by cops. I also understand the anger and frustration if people believe they have been stopped unjustly or without a reason. I am aware that corrupt and bully cops exist. When it comes to police misconduct, I side with the ACLU: Having worked as an internal affairs investigator, I know that some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior; sometimes they behave like criminals themselves. I also believe every cop should use a body camera to record interactions with the community at all times. Every police car should have a video recorder. (This will prevent a situation like Mike Brown’s shooting, about which conflicting and self-serving statements allow people to believe what they want.) And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

But if you believe (or know) that the cop stopping you is violating your rights or is acting like a bully, I guarantee that the situation will not become easier if you show your anger and resentment. Worse, initiating a physical confrontation is a sure recipe for getting hurt. Police are legally permitted to use deadly force when they assess a serious threat to their or someone else’s life. Save your anger for later, and channel it appropriately. Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you. We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police! Just don’t challenge a cop during a stop.

An average person cannot comprehend the risks and has no true understanding of a cop’s job. Hollywood and television stereotypes of the police are cartoons in which fearless super cops singlehandedly defeat dozens of thugs, shooting guns out of their hands. Real life is different. An average cop is always concerned with his or her safety and tries to control every encounter. That is how we are trained. While most citizens are courteous and law abiding, the subset of people we generally interact with everyday are not the genteel types. You don’t know what is in my mind when I stop you. Did I just get a radio call of a shooting moments ago? Am I looking for a murderer or an armed fugitive? For you, this might be a “simple” traffic stop, for me each traffic stop is a potentially dangerous encounter. Show some empathy for an officer’s safety concerns. Don’t make our job more difficult than it already is.

Community members deserve courtesy, respect and professionalism from their officers. Every person stopped by a cop should feel safe instead of feeling that their wellbeing is in jeopardy. Shouldn’t the community members extend the same courtesy to their officers and project that the officer’s safety is not threatened by their actions?

---------------------------------------

I thought this was a very good read, and he seems like the sort of officer who is very intelligent and full force was a very last resort.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
3,059
653
146
Have any thoughts on this op?

This seems like a reasonable article, although I would prefer he made it explicit that if I have detained or arrested you DON’T ARGUE WITH ME, DON’T CALL ME NAMES, DON’T TELL ME THAT I CAN’T STOP YOU, DON’T SAY I’M A RACIST PIG, DON’T THREATEN THAT YOU’LL SUE ME AND TAKE AWAY MY BADGE. DON’T SCREAM AT ME THAT YOU PAY MY SALARY, AND DON’T EVEN THINK OF AGGRESSIVELY WALKING TOWARDS ME.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,063
495
126
This is a pretty silly article. First he basically tells you to toss out your rights or risk being abused by the state(cops). And then rests his whole argument about doing what you are told by cops on the justice system will sort it out. Has anybody seen our justice system? Minorities in particular get railroaded into taking plea deals to avoid obnoxious jail time over seemingly petty crimes.
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
Have any thoughts on this op?

This seems like a reasonable article, although I would prefer he made it explicit that if I have detained or arrested you DON’T ARGUE WITH ME, DON’T CALL ME NAMES, DON’T TELL ME THAT I CAN’T STOP YOU, DON’T SAY I’M A RACIST PIG, DON’T THREATEN THAT YOU’LL SUE ME AND TAKE AWAY MY BADGE. DON’T SCREAM AT ME THAT YOU PAY MY SALARY, AND DON’T EVEN THINK OF AGGRESSIVELY WALKING TOWARDS ME.

Yea I am kind of surprised no one is chiming in on this. Well, ok then..lol
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
86
This is a pretty silly article. First he basically tells you to toss out your rights or risk being abused by the state(cops). And then rests his whole argument about doing what you are told by cops on the justice system will sort it out. Has anybody seen our justice system? Minorities in particular get railroaded into taking plea deals to avoid obnoxious jail time over seemingly petty crimes.
So, what is the alternative? Challenge a cop who is already violating your rights? As he said, that is going to work out real well for you. If a cop is okay with illegally detaining you, why wouldn't he be okay with shooting you if you show aggression?

99.9% of the time a cop is detaining someone, it is legal. You aren't in that extreme minority. Stfu and take your traffic ticket. Don't act like an idiot.
 

z1ggy

Diamond Member
May 17, 2008
9,945
56
91
I downloaded an ap for my phone which can record video and upload it to a server, even if the phone is taken or destroyed. It's illegal in my state to resist an illegal arrest, so odds are I would just do whatever the cop says and let the unbiased evidence do the talking down the road.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood... outright challenges to my authority.

...

DON’T ARGUE WITH ME, DON’T CALL ME NAMES, DON’T TELL ME THAT I CAN’T STOP YOU, DON’T SAY I’M A RACIST PIG, DON’T THREATEN THAT YOU’LL SUE ME AND TAKE AWAY MY BADGE. DON’T SCREAM AT ME THAT YOU PAY MY SALARY, AND DON’T EVEN THINK OF AGGRESSIVELY WALKING TOWARDS ME.
Oh noes, challenges to their authority! Screw this prick.

When cops assault people and destroy the phones and cameras of bystanders on the other side of the street, that's not exercising authority, that abuse.

When cops throw grenades into cribs, that's not authority, that's abuse.

When cops shoot the family dog of an innocent family not even involved in any crime, that's not authority, that's abuse.

Maybe they should try working on not abusing their authority. Authority it not without limit, like many pigs seem to think. Criminals will always hate cops, but cops are giving everyone a reason to hate them by acting like authoritarian pigs.
 
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Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,699
138
106
This is why we need cameras on all police officers, it helps protect the citizens form bad cops and the good cops from criminals.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
This is a pretty silly article. First he basically tells you to toss out your rights or risk being abused by the state(cops). And then rests his whole argument about doing what you are told by cops on the justice system will sort it out. Has anybody seen our justice system? Minorities in particular get railroaded into taking plea deals to avoid obnoxious jail time over seemingly petty crimes.
This.

Hell, even if you're a middle class white person, the justice system could easily cost you your job by locking you up for a couple weeks just to assert their "authority".
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,712
3,169
126
I downloaded an ap for my phone which can record video and upload it to a server, even if the phone is taken or destroyed. It's illegal in my state to resist an illegal arrest, so odds are I would just do whatever the cop says and let the unbiased evidence do the talking down the road.
I believe the ACLU also has an app that allows you to upload your video to the ACLU site...
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
"I know it is scary for people to be stopped by cops.

I also understand the anger and frustration if people believe they have been stopped unjustly or without a reason."
=========================================================
You think maybe they shouldn't be stopping people without probable cause so much?
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,699
138
106
i think people are finally starting to wake up to this, maybe we can get some change and continued focus on the problem and the solutions.

The US has a serious problem with it's police forces and legal system. This is a big threat to Americans of all races.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
53
91
i cant wait for this cop hate to blow over...its reaching critical mass. Once regular joe starts to pay attention and sees criminals running free, fucking up society, eroding law enforcements ability to stop them, he will wonder why he stood by and let the neudering of police begin.
 

z1ggy

Diamond Member
May 17, 2008
9,945
56
91
This is why we need cameras on all police officers, it helps protect the citizens form bad cops and the good cops from criminals.
The problem is.. who pays for that? To stick every cop out there with a camera which wirelessly uploads it's content to a server somewhere is going to cost huge money.

For now the best I can do is record them on my phone and make sure the data is sent to a server so the data can't be lost or tampered with.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
86
"I know it is scary for people to be stopped by cops.

I also understand the anger and frustration if people believe they have been stopped unjustly or without a reason."
=========================================================
You think maybe they shouldn't be stopping people without probable cause so much?
And how many of those people stopped that believe that, actually were stopped without probable cause? How many fuckwads freak out because they were speeding and got pulled over vs how many people were pulled over simply because they were black?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,712
3,169
126
It should be I am a cop. I respect your rights and I am glad that you know your rights and you know my rights. Now I will not violate your rights and you behave and let us get through this......I understand that you do not have to answer any questions. I also understand that you do not have to identify yourself if we are on the street in California and I come upon you!

Also understand that I can and possibly will lie to you about your rights and other things because I can lie to you. But you cannot lie to me...lolol
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
i cant wait for this cop hate to blow over...its reaching critical mass. Once regular joe starts to pay attention and sees criminals running free, fucking up society, eroding law enforcements ability to stop them, he will wonder why he stood by and let the neudering of police begin.
Riiiiiiiight....
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
7
0
Reasonable and sound advice.

Now, provided you aren't killed, follow this advice and STILL get beaten/arrested; enjoy your settlement. The latter is clearly not ideal,.. but, for the most part, just do what they say.

Also, even when you do come across an irate cop, who is hell bent on busting someone/anyone, I bet he'll calm down if you show him you aren't some impotent boob trying to prove to the world that no one (and I mean NO ONE) pushes you around.

Stow it and make a stand someplace else in you life, where it counts and it won't get you arrested.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,699
138
106
The problem is.. who pays for that? To stick every cop out there with a camera which wirelessly uploads it's content to a server somewhere is going to cost huge money.

For now the best I can do is record them on my phone and make sure the data is sent to a server so the data can't be lost or tampered with.
There are already lots of precincts that use body cameras. Plus more looking into it right now. There is cost associated but it isn't that large, and in the end should cut down on other costs. Along with the benefit of having it is well worth the cost anyway.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,394
126
Another thread from the OP about cop or cop/law enforcement related in a bad light? Darn, when it will be enough, dude?
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
3,956
33
91
Reasonable and sound advice.

Now, provided you aren't killed, follow this advice and STILL get beaten/arrested; enjoy your settlement. The latter is clearly not ideal,.. but, for the most part, just do what they say.

Also, even when you do come across an irate cop, who is hell bent on busting someone/anyone, I bet he'll calm down if you show him you aren't some impotent boob trying to prove to the world that no one (and I mean NO ONE) pushes you around.

Stow it and make a stand someplace else in you life, where it counts and it won't get you arrested.
+1

Is there serious structual issues that need to be dealt with in LE and in the criminal justice system overall. Absolutely but trying to resist the cops isn't going to end well for you.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,302
9
81
In a time where the police are militarized and "Contempt of Cop" merits a death sentence ("stop resisting!"), it's probably wise to not deliberately provoke the police.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
i cant wait for this cop hate to blow over...its reaching critical mass. Once regular joe starts to pay attention and sees criminals running free, fucking up society, eroding law enforcements ability to stop them, he will wonder why he stood by and let the neudering of police begin.
Corrupt cops and cop-hating are only symptoms of a larger problem and will not simply blow over as long as the root cause continues. The root cause being the increasing lawless of the government leading to disrespect of law itself. It happens in every authoritarian and socialist state, hence why they all become/are fascist police states. The more power government usurps, the more people disrespect the law, the more aggressive the police must become to retain control.
 

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